Oil Leak

[tomson1355]

Bought a 98 Outback with 107K and bad head gaskets. It also leaked oil on the ground, enough so you could watch the level on the dipstick fall. I had the heads off and the block looked so easy to get out that I took it out and put in a clutch and rear main seal. The separator cover was aluminum so i left it alone. I did all the seals in front, TB, oil and water pumps, etc. All went well, but a minute after i started it, smoke rose up from the exhaust. I figured it was just drippings from work and would go away. But no, there is still a leak. On the ground the leak looks the same as before the work. When you come to a stop, smoke rises up from the exhaust, which may have been happening before the work and would have gotten missed with all the coolant steam. There is no oil leak coming from the front of the engine.

I see three possibilities. One, I messed up the rear seal installation. It was my first rear seal. Two, it's a power sterring leak. Three, it's an oil pan leak from the rear of the pan.

It's very difficult to tell where the oil is coming from. I will probably just reseal the pan and see if that doesn't get it. But if anybody has any suggestions as to how to tell what's leaking, I'd be grateful. I don't think I want to slide under the car with gunk and rags. How often are oil pan leaks seen in this model?

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

Earlville, NY

[nipper]

Did you replace the front main seal and re seal the oil pump? Also there is an oil galley plug or two.

 

A leak this big should be easy to spot. Clean the underneath of the engine using an engine cleaner. push the car out of the gaint puddle you just made. Start it up untill you see the dripping then shut it down and see where its coming from.

 

Sadly there arent too many things that can cause this fast a leak in a sooby.

[idosubaru]

like nipper said, there's really too many options to guess over the internet. there's tons of experience and knowledge on here, but this is going to be hard without more info. can you take pictures? i'm with nipper, a leak that bad should be obvious. first...make sure what kind of fluid it is, that should be obvious as well. if you have to, clean off the oily area so you can see a fresh leak. this really needs to be done to avoid guess work. i would doubt it's the oil pan myself, but i'm not going to say it's impossible.

 

rear main seals do seem to leak after recent installs, i know a couple very talented soob people that have had this happen (members of this board too). i'm not sure why the rear main seal is finnicky but it's also the least likely original seal to leak on a soob motor ironically enough.

 

if it was really leaking as fast as you say it was before the head gasket change, "so fast you could see it dropping on the oil dipstick"....i'd be worried about the motor. if it started leaking that fast, it would be very hard to notice the first time before it got dangerously low.

[tomson1355]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

I think I misled you guys on how fast the leak is. I meant you could watch the level fall over a couple of weeks. To be more accurate, I'd guess about a quart in 300-500 miles. After it's parked it leaves a half-dollar sized spot (a few drops?) on the garage floor. It left a similar spot before I did the work but I can't say for sure that it came from the same place. I did not find a difinitve leak when I did the work. The rear main had a slight oil trail coming from the bottom of it, but I don't know if this means it was really leaking or what.

 

I'm very confident of the engine. Sounds good, runs good. Very spunky. Clean exhaust, etc.

 

I Sprayed the area with engine cleaner resulting in a nice puddle like Nipper said. i took off the skid plate. But I just can't see where the leak is. It's certainly in the rear of the engine and I doubt it's the pan, too. I fear the rear main.

 

I'll be separating the engine and tranny later this am and I'll post an update. If I did mess up the installation I'll be begging for pointers on replacing the rear main seal. prolly shoulda left the other one alone. But almost everything you read says, if you're doing the clutch, do the main seal. And, I wanted to make sure I'd taken care of the leak.

 

I hate doing things over. But it sure makes ya humble.

 

Thanks, you two, for your generous help.

[idosubaru]

if it leaked before the clutch job and still leaks after...i would not guess it's the rear main seal, or i would be suspicious at least that it's something else. sounds like you just didn't address the actual leaking point. i would not get into separating the engine/trans until i was sure the leak was coming from there myself. seals are typically a little wet looking underneath. even if they don't leak, a little seapage may be underneath and attracts dirt/dust/clutch dust for the rear main. that isn't necessarily something to worry about. if it was leaking significant amounts i would think you would notice that area being very wet with oil all over the bottom of the bell housing and that metal plate under the flywheel that bolts to the underside of the engine.

 

is the leak definitely centrally located, in other words it's not coming from valve covers or heads?

[Andyjo]

i was going to say.. it's a subaru.. it leaks oil.. but it shouldn't go that fast

like nipster said, the oil pump is a good place to start, there's some phillips screws oh the top end of it that come loose, tighten them up and you may have fixed your problem.

and it's not that bad to get down in there, that's where i'd start at least, because when mine did that, it would travel all the way to the headers... and that smelt good :cool:

[tomson1355]

Thanks, Andyjo.

 

As I said, I did the oil pump, and the screws were tight. And the leak is not coming form the front of the engine. it drips down onto the rack and exhaust.

 

Tom

[tomson1355]

Well, I -say- the leak isn't coming from the front of the engine. Let me be clear. The leak doesn't APPEAR to be coming from the front. With the car stationary, it drips at the rear of the motor. The timing cover and the front of the oil pan are clean. If there is some way the oil leaks at the front and travels to the rear unseen, please educate me. Lord knows I need it.

 

I am looking further shortly.

 

Thanks again,

Tom

[idosubaru]

i'd remove any shields, jack plates, underside flywheel cover, any covers you can to get a good view. get under the car and have a good light source available. snap some pictures while you're under there?

 

a rear main seal shouldn't put oil on the engine any further forward than the bellhousing, so it shouldn't be that hard to narrow down. if you can't tell you need to clean everything off and try again.

[subaray]

Der friend, Since you aready said that is your first rear main seal servive you've done, I would suggest you to check that rear main seal again, what happend is if you did not check that main seal very close.. and the seal had the internal lip not seated properly you will have the same kind of leak before or greater. Sorry, but this is the only thing I can possibly guess. But I suggest you to clean that area very good and roadtest your subaru again and check how bad it is, Rear main seal not properly installed will give you a bad leak.

[tomson1355]

Sorry no pics. My wife has the camera at work, and I can't figure out my son's camera. And thanks for the help and suggestions. This might be the most friendly and helpful forum on the web.

 

The culprit is the oil pan gasket. There is fresh oil right up to the screw holes at the rear of the pan, on both the pan and the block surfaces. The gasket material looks thin and is a different color on the inner rim than on the outer rim (which may be normal?). Did I pull the engine again to find this out? Yup. Did I pull the clutch and the flywheel to be absolutely sure the seal and the separator plate weren't the culprits? Yup. I want to be able to sleep tonight. It also explains why the pattern of oil on the garage floor was the same before and after the work. The only thing I didn't do was reseal the oil pan. Argh.

 

why couldn't I see the leak clearly with the engine in? I don't know. Partly because even after degreasing, it's still pretty wet and oily in there. But partly also I had this feeling that I'd done something wrong putting the rear seal in. But I didn't! And now I know. Good experience, but time-consuming.

[Olnick]

This might be the most friendly and helpful forum on the web.

 

It is,

 

Oh, and congratulations on your success!

[msmithmmx]

To bad the cross-member is in your way of taking off the oil pan. Time to pull the engine again, get to work

[idosubaru]

so you already have the engine out i think? the oil pan gasket can be replaced without pulling the engine, but it is a bit annoying. but still beats separating and re-mating the engine and trans. also...sometimes it doesn't hurt to just snug up the bolts at the rear of the pan, but if you already have it out that doesn't matter.

 

the oil pan gasket is really annoying. i'd use a Subaru gasket, they tend to be thicker and higher quality than most aftermarkets. i'd probably consider using RTV or anaerobic (more proper sealant) sealant on both sides if you want to make sure it seals. otherwise, be careful to note the oil pan bolt holes, if they are concave at all, they may leak with a new gasket. and make sure the block and pan are perfectly clean and the pan is flat, smooth and not bent. don't snug the bolts too much when installing, that's how the thin metal bolt holes of the pan get concave, from overtightening.

[tomson1355]

Actually, there is no gasket. I asked for one at the dealership and they said there wasn't one. Adn there wasn't one when I took it off. So I resealed it with Ulatra grey. We'll see.

 

Yeah I looked at the procedure for doing the oil pan in the car and by the time you get the exhaust down and the motor mount nuts off adn the engine jacked up, you've done a lot of work.

 

One thing that might have made detecting the leak difficult is a slit in the flywheel cover that is right behind the back of the oil pan. Some of the leak must have been seeping in through the crack, making it look like there was oil inside the flywheel cover. I don't know if that slit is supposed to be there or whether it was worn by the flywheel teeth.

 

In any event, the pan is sealed. Now to put the flywheel and clutch back on, stick the engine back where is belongs and go for a ride.

[idosubaru]

no that slit in the flywheel under cover is supposed to be there, i've seen them before. goofy aint it? i assume it's to allow for drainage.

[hankosolder2]

no that slit in the flywheel under cover is supposed to be there, i've seen them before. goofy aint it? i assume it's to allow for drainage.

 

Gary,

Not to be jacking this thread (seems like the fellow already found his oil leak so hopefully it's cool) but do you happen to know if the flywheel cover is possible to replace without jacking up the engine?

Stupid me- I was new to Subarus at the time and installed an ej22 into my wife's '98 Legacy Outback. I didn't realize that there was supposed to be a flyweel cover...because there was no cover on the old 2.5 when I pulled it. (Engine had previously been in & out elsewhere, so the previous mechanic must have lost it.)

We've been running without a flywheel cover for a year with no apparent consequences, but I worry what a stategically thrown pebble might do the clutch or flywheel ring gear.

 

Nathan