Can I make a switch that will activate the power windows with the key off?

[daeron]

Just as the subject line states... Is it REALLY just as simple as adding a fused , constant-live switch, acting as a supplemental input to the power window relay?

 

Basically, I am picturing a scenario where my windows are down and it starts pouring rain, and I do not happen to have my keys handy. Jump in, flip the switch, and hit the power window switches. I don't care if you think it is worth it or not (this was just one example scenario, I have thought that such a device would come in handy on numerous occasions now) Just, can it be done?

 

Will I inadvertently power other circuits of the car by providing power to the relay? I mean, the normal power supply wire to the relay is going to be energized, but only as far back as a switch somewhere, right? OR, is the "switching" done by the ignition switch a ground switching?

 

This is all coming about because it is HIGH time I did something about the SUPER SLOW power windows, and if I am gonna start mucking around in there I will probably just install one of the oodles of bosch relays I have around instead of trying to source a new (or JY) subaru relay... AND SO, if I am gonna muck around with all that, I would like to make this mod.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and information.

[Tom63050]

Just as the subject line states... Is it REALLY just as simple as adding a fused , constant-live switch, acting as a supplemental input to the power window relay?

 

Basically, I am picturing a scenario where my windows are down and it starts pouring rain, and I do not happen to have my keys handy. Jump in, flip the switch, and hit the power window switches. I don't care if you think it is worth it or not (this was just one example scenario, I have thought that such a device would come in handy on numerous occasions now) Just, can it be done?

 

Will I inadvertently power other circuits of the car by providing power to the relay? I mean, the normal power supply wire to the relay is going to be energized, but only as far back as a switch somewhere, right? OR, is the "switching" done by the ignition switch a ground switching?

 

This is all coming about because it is HIGH time I did something about the SUPER SLOW power windows, and if I am gonna start mucking around in there I will probably just install one of the oodles of bosch relays I have around instead of trying to source a new (or JY) subaru relay... AND SO, if I am gonna muck around with all that, I would like to make this mod.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and information.

 

Easier solution: keep a spare key in your wallet.

 

Concerning slow power windows, yeah I got 'em too. I usually put up or down one at a time, they go faster that way.

[daeron]

Easier solution: keep a spare key in your wallet.

 

Concerning slow power windows, yeah I got 'em too. I usually put up or down one at a time, they go faster that way.

I do, but my wallet isnt always in my pocket either.

 

I live in south florida for one primary reason: I like to spend as much of my time barefoot, wearing shorts, T-shirt optional, as possible.

[Virrdog]

Maybe a switch that would put the car into the "on" position. The kind of switch you have to hold down of course, but that might get into messy ignition switch stuff.

[zyewdall]

What I'd do is find the main power wire supplying the power windows, and reconnect it to a switch to the main always on power buss -- instead of to the ignition power busss. If you move it, rather than just adding a new switch, no problems backfeeding the ignition. If you wanted, you could put a relay in parallel with the new switch, triggered by the ignition, so it would also work whenever the ignition is on like it does now too.

[Gloyale]

The main breaker and power supply for the PW is under the passenger side carpet. You could run a fused, Batt power switch to the main breaker. Just put a diode in the original power wire with it to prevent backflow.

[Cougar]

You should be able to tap the wires that go to the ignition switch. By placing a bypass switch in between the hot battery lead and the accessories lead connection it will do what you want to do. The battery lead color may be white and the accessory lead may be blue.

[Gloyale]

You should be able to tap the wires that go to the ignition switch. By placing a bypass switch in between the hot battery lead and the accessories lead connection it will do what you want to do. The battery lead color may be white and the accessory lead may be blue.

 

Power windows don't operate in ACC. position. It would need to be *ON* position, and I think He is try to avoid having other circuits be energized by the switch. Like the ECU and Fuel pump and others(someone could easily start the car by jumping to the solenoid if there was a switch to *on*, of course they couldn't steer but hey..)

 

Daeron, put a diode in the original circuit and splice you're switches wire into the original *downstream* of that diode.

[SubaPurple]

You need to be concerned about backfeeding the rest of the electrical system, which is of course what would happen if you just "jumper" in a live feed to the power side of the windows.

 

The problem with a diode is the amperage being drawn by the windows motors. If you can find a large enough diode cheap, then it can be a good solution.

 

In the following, the fuse panel and ignition switch may be reversed,

but my manual is too far away for me to check it. Works the same.

 

Always disconnect battery before wiring.

 

Solution (1)

Add diode, fuse and wire (same or larger size wire as org) as shown.

Now;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch---------------->Windows

Change to;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch-------diode>--@-->Windows

add the following;

Battery------Fuse (inline fuse) ------------(splice to @ above).

Note: Place diode so it only affects the windows power wire. Note polarity.

 

Solution (2)

Add switch, fuse and wire (same or larger size wire as org) as shown.

Now;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch---------------->Windows power wire

Change to;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch----(a)switch

switch(--->Windows power wire

Battery------Fuse (inline fuse)-----------©switch

add the above new fused wire to connector ©.

 

Note that the wire to the power windows is cut and the end going to the windows is attached to the center ( (or common) connector of

the switch. The other end of the cut wire coming from the fuse

panel is connected to switch connector (a).

 

Toggling the switch determines whether windows ( get power from the

ignition switch (a) or directly from the battery ©.

 

Switch is a heavy duty (maybe 12v at 30 amps or more) single throw

double pole switch. That just means it has 3 connectors, (a), ( and ©.

 

Solution (3), make windows powered at all times.

Add fuse and wire (same or larger size wire as org) as shown.

Now;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch---------------->Windows

Change to;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch--------(cut wire)------>Windows

Tape up the cut end of the old wire from the fuse panel above.

add the following;

Battery------Fuse (inline fuse)-----------(splice)--->Windows

 

SubaPurple

[Cougar]

Gloyale,

 

Thanks for the heads up about the windows not operating in the ACC position. This was a wrong assumption on my part. I didn't look at the print well enough. Sorry for the misinformation.

 

Glen

[daeron]

cool beans, I ihave several great ideas now. I may wind up re plumbing the setup entirely, and re engineer the way it is powered with the key "on" as well.... OR, since I need some diodes to make a 12volt AC power supply into a 12 volt DC power supply, I just may head down to an old job and see what he could throw me six or seven diodes for....

 

Cool. I understand all about how to do what I want, I was just uncertain if backfeeding voltage would really cause any problems. It sounds like the consensus is that it is NOT a good idea to even try it; which was what I had thought.

 

I will endeavour to take photos; and I will CERTAINLY have a write up.. but I've got no idea when I am gonna get around to any of this. House is being appraised tomorrow for refinancing, and tons of other projects already on a burner somewhere.. but now the knowledge is mine, and I thank you all heartily.

[daeron]

AND ANOTHER THING.....

 

Does ANYone know of a good place online to help teach yourself how to read wiring schematics??!?? I had learned in high school, but then I went about three years without looking at one and when time came for me to actually NEED the skill, it was largely evaporated.. (I am normally more retentive than that ) I can KINDA read them... but I am vague on what several symbols mean, exactly.. No specific QUESTIONS, I just want a primer of some sort.

[Gloyale]

Gloyale,

 

Thanks for the heads up about the windows not operating in the ACC position. This was a wrong assumption on my part. I didn't look at the print well enough. Sorry for the misinformation.

 

Glen

 

 

Yeah I'm sure is was a malicious attempt to sabotage Daerons electrical project....hhmmmmwawwaaahhhaaaahhaaaaaaaaaa........

 

NOT!

 

easy mistake to make.

[Gloyale]

Solution (2)

Add switch, fuse and wire (same or larger size wire as org) as shown.

Now;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch---------------->Windows power wire

Change to;

Battery----Fuse_Panel----Ign_Switch----(a)switch

switch(--->Windows power wire

Battery------Fuse (inline fuse)-----------©switch

add the above new fused wire to connector ©.

 

Note that the wire to the power windows is cut and the end going to the windows is attached to the center ( (or common) connector of

the switch. The other end of the cut wire coming from the fuse

panel is connected to switch connector (a).

 

Toggling the switch determines whether windows ( get power from the

ignition switch (a) or directly from the battery ©.

 

Switch is a heavy duty (maybe 12v at 30 amps or more) single throw

double pole switch. That just means it has 3 connectors, (a), ( and ©.[/Quote]

 

I think for this setup you'd need a Double throw, single pole switch(DTSP) no center off.

 

A Single throw/double pole(STDP) would switch 2 seperate ciruits on or off. You don't need two circuits, you need one circuit with switched power sources. The DTSP is what you need.

[Cougar]

AND ANOTHER THING.....

 

Does ANYone know of a good place online to help teach yourself how to read wiring schematics??!?? I had learned in high school, but then I went about three years without looking at one and when time came for me to actually NEED the skill, it was largely evaporated.. (I am normally more retentive than that ) I can KINDA read them... but I am vague on what several symbols mean, exactly.. No specific QUESTIONS, I just want a primer of some sort.

 

To learn about certain symbols you should be able to find out the info by searching the web for electronic symbols.

 

There are a lot of good text books on the market that can help you learn basic automotive to advanced electronic information and repair. You can search for them on the web and also check your locale bookstore and library.

[baccaruda]

wikipedia

[hooziewhatsit]

cool beans, I ihave several great ideas now. I may wind up re plumbing the setup entirely, and re engineer the way it is powered with the key "on" as well.... OR, since I need some diodes to make a 12volt AC power supply into a 12 volt DC power supply, I just may head down to an old job and see what he could throw me six or seven diodes for....

 

just a heads up... 12vAC will NOT change directly to 12vDC. It will be ~17vDC after you rectify it. You will only need 4 diodes to make a bridge to rectify the AC. Or you could just pick up a bridge from Radio Shack.

 

-Dave (is thinking about doing this to my windows as well)

[daeron]

just a heads up... 12vAC will NOT change directly to 12vDC. It will be ~17vDC after you rectify it. You will only need 4 diodes to make a bridge to rectify the AC. Or you could just pick up a bridge from Radio Shack.

 

-Dave (is thinking about doing this to my windows as well)

 

Yuh, I know.. its for a bilge pump, and the "12VAC" power supply is an old halogen desk lamp with two intensities.. one outputs 10.0 volts and the other 10.8-11.. so I figure worst case scenario we have to run it on "low speed" and run the bilge pump at 14 volts, woo.

 

We are building a bait tank in our back yard. sound like fun?

[stickedy]

I just read this thread and had another idea: Why not just "disconnect" the power connection to the ignition system when using this switch? Every standard relay is a two-way-relay which means that an circuit is opened and the other one is closed when using the switch. When the circuit of the power windows isn't connected to the other electric systems any more, you haven't mess around with a proper diode. It also a bit better work to make switching by a relay and not directly by a simple switch

 

I made a simple diagramm about that, not nice a far from standard electronic, but it should should show what I'm speaking about:

 

 

Do you understand what I mean? In general it's related to the idea of SubaPurple, but using a relay insted of a two-way-switch.

 

Basically, this is a good idea: It happens to me from time to time that the windows are down and the car is already off (and the key is in my pocket already) so that I have to power on the ignition one again to raise the windows... Perhaps I will make also this modification when I install my other speakers to the amplifier under the passenger seat.

[daeron]

I just read this thread and had another idea: Why not just "disconnect" the power connection to the ignition system when using this switch? Every standard relay is a two-way-relay which means that an circuit is opened and the other one is closed when using the switch. When the circuit of the power windows isn't connected to the other electric systems any more, you haven't mess around with a proper diode. It also a bit better work to make switching by a relay and not directly by a simple switch

 

I made a simple diagramm about that, not nice a far from standard electronic, but it should should show what I'm speaking about:

 

 

Do you understand what I mean? In general it's related to the idea of SubaPurple, but using a relay insted of a two-way-switch.

 

Basically, this is a good idea: It happens to me from time to time that the windows are down and the car is already off (and the key is in my pocket already) so that I have to power on the ignition one again to raise the windows... Perhaps I will make also this modification when I install my other speakers to the amplifier under the passenger seat.

 

Yah!! Exactly!! I hadn't thought it all the way through, yet, but you hit the nail on the head.

 

I have bosch relays with five prongs.. i was wrong about it when I made my relay write up. The way they work, is that they have two voltage out circuit, 87 and 87a.. when the relay is activated, power goes to 87. when it is not activated, power goes to 87a.. so I use 87a to trigger a relay embedded in the standard power feed. When 87a is energized, the relay i add to the stock power window feed will be closed, completing that circuit. When I energize my five prong, "auxiliary switch" relay, terminal 87a is de energized, and the stock power window feed circuit is interrupted.

[stickedy]

Yeah, exactly this way it will work fine!

[TahoeFerrari]

The idea of using a relay is the way to go. Here's how I did it without cutting or splicing into any of the wiring. This is my "plug and play" approach that I've had working in my '89 GL wagon for a few years now.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a digital camera to provide pictures, but here's a wiring diagram and a description of the circuit and how it works.

 

 

Normally, power is provided via F10 (or possibly F12) to the "Power Window Relay". When this relay is energized, it provides power from a green fusible link to the window switches and thus to the window motors.

 

The problem is that F10 is only hot when the ignition switch is in run (or start). You could apply 12v - via a fuse, of course - to the circuit side of F10, but you would also be applying power backwards through F10 to the 12v bus and everything that is powered by the ignition switch when in "run" - not a good idea.

 

Instead, I devised the circuit described here that allows power to be applied to the window relay (and the turn signals and the backup lights which are also on F10) without all the rest of the "ignition run" circuits.

 

1. With the ignition off, fused power is obtained from a fuse tap on F20 (power door lock circuit) - which is hot all the time - and applied through the momentary SPST switch and the normally closed contacts (87A - 30/51) of the deenergized (head light) relay to the F10 window relay circuit. Note that the upper 2 sockets of the add-a-circuit are not connected, thus power is not applied to the upper pin of the 15A fuse in the add-a-circuit socket and thus not back through the fuse to the "ignition run" circuits.

 

2. When the ignition is in "run", power is applied to F10 which causes the (head light) relay to energize and apply power to the window relay via the now closed contacts (87 - 30/51) of the (head light) relay.

 

3. The reason for the momentary SPST switch is to aviod accidentally leaving power applied to the window relay (and maybe to the backup lights - if the tranny is in reverse - and/or the turn signals - if the turn switch is not in the neutral position). Thus no accidental dead battery!

 

4. The reason for the (head light) relay is to switch between different sources for power to the window relay - F20 and the SPST switch when the ignition is off or the normal path through f10 when the ignition is on.

 

Parts needed:

 

1 - Littelfuse ATO 'Add-a-Circuit' p/n FHA200BP or OFHA0200ZP

Pep Boys about $9

Napa about $17

 

1 - Fuse tap

Napa package of 4 - p/n 784601 $??

 

? - male and female spade connectors -

Radio shack $???

 

1 - Headlight relay and socket

$??? - I got mine out of a Jeep Cherokee in a JY for a few $. Look in engine compartment on right side - there should be 3 or 4 of them there.

 

? - wire - at least 18ga

 

1 - SPST-MOM (Single Pole, Single Throw, momentary) switch

Radio Shack $4??

windckt.pdf