Black comedy of errors:ECU/sensor problem

[hankosolder2]

It has a flanged head, and, threads on about half of it.

 

I called one of the part suppliers in Milford Connecticut.... The guy says you can only buy the bolt WITH the tensioner idler assembly,

I ask why becase it LOOKS like only a bolt to me and he says something about it being "eccentric".... that would make no sense to me...

I am 98% sure he is wrong, ...... I thnk HE is eccentric, or, pathologically misaligned...and greedy to boot.

why can't he just say that they can't any make money off of selling bolts, so they do not carry them.... instead i get a mechanical fairlytale from a sales dork.

 

I might just check out a hardware store.

 

Thanks

 

 

That bolt is not eccentric- I just took one out last weekend on my Dad's Legacy. Why not try a different Subaru parts supplier? They can't ALL be fools! I'm a bit leery of hardware store bolts for automotive purposes. Given that the original, presumably high quality hardware failed....

 

Nathan

[OB99W]

That bolt is not eccentric- I just took one out last weekend on my Dad's Legacy.

So, what we want here is a "coaxial" bolt?

 

 

[...]I'm a bit leery of hardware store bolts for automotive purposes. Given that the original, presumably high quality hardware failed....

Ever since hardware started coming from China and similar sources, I've also been leery of it. However, having experienced and read of failed OEM hardware, who knows what the source or quality of it is. Nevertheless, I suppose for something as critical as the belt tensioner, an original part might be a better bet.

[DTL]

That bolt is not eccentric- I just took one out last weekend on my Dad's Legacy. Why not try a different Subaru parts supplier? They can't ALL be fools! I'm a bit leery of hardware store bolts for automotive purposes. Given that the original, presumably high quality hardware failed....

 

Nathan

 

I am sure it was not torqued correctly, from the timimg belt/water pump replacement 10 months previous to it failing... backed out amd then snapped off.

 

the hardware bolts i looked at were all wrong...

 

junk yards tomorrow!

[nipper]

So, what we want here is a "coaxial" bolt?

 

 

Ever since hardware started coming from China and similar sources, I've also been leery of it. However, having experienced and read of failed OEM hardware, who knows what the source or quality of it is. Nevertheless, I suppose for something as critical as the belt tensioner, an original part might be a better bet.

 

Speaking from the OE perspective, there is a huge counterfit hardware probelm out in the market, which isn't getting addressed (yet). OE doesnt do 100% QA testing, and buys hardware on certificates. Three guesses where the counterfits come from, and the first two don't count. Very few fasteners are made in the US. Even Boing's dream liner got caught by counterfit fasteners.

 

nipper

[OB99W]

Speaking from the OE perspective, there is a huge counterfit hardware probelm out in the market, which isn't getting addressed (yet). OE doesnt do 100% QA testing, and buys hardware on certificates.[...]

Unfortunately, parts counterfeiting doesn't begin and end with nuts, bolts, and the like. For example, the electronics industry has a problem with transistors, integrated circuits, capacitors, etc., being targeted. When you have 100,000 pieces of something ready to be used in production, it's nice to know if they're "real" or just look like it, but prone to failure. An entire industry is developing, doing secondary QA lab testing, often with quite detailed analysis; in the case of counterfeits, they may actually be doing the primary QA.

[DTL]

Speaking from the OE perspective, there is a huge counterfit hardware probelm out in the market, which isn't getting addressed (yet). OE doesnt do 100% QA testing, and buys hardware on certificates. Three guesses where the counterfits come from, and the first two don't count. Very few fasteners are made in the US. Even Boing's dream liner got caught by counterfit fasteners.

 

nipper

 

I remember in the 80's when chineese tool first hit the market, I went to buy a vise. I paid like $50.00 and bought the biggest one they had ( I figured it probably wasn't the best quality) at this tool retail shop that popped up near me.

It was a monster. After a few weeks I had to crush the end of some 1" iron pipe for some reason. I put the pipe in the vise, torqued it by hand and the hit the vise handle with a hammer once and broke the vise right through the neck.... I was stunned, then started laughing. The cross section that broke was atleast 3"x 1.5". i returned it with profuse complaining.... got a store credit or something. Now I look for "antique" tools whenever I need beefy or good steel (like chisels).

 

One autoparts guy was saying it was a hardened bolt, I don't think so, it drilled fairly easily.. mabe it WAS a case of bad hardware.

 

Nipper, I am headed to Island park later to go bolt hunting.... there are several salvage yards there, any you would recommend?

 

Bill

[nipper]

I remember in the 80's when chineese tool first hit the market, I went to buy a vise. I paid like $50.00 and bought the biggest one they had ( I figured it probably wasn't the best quality) at this tool retail shop that popped up near me.

It was a monster. After a few weeks I had to crush the end of some 1" iron pipe for some reason. I put the pipe in the vise, torqued it by hand and the hit the vise handle with a hammer once and broke the vise right through the neck.... I was stunned, then started laughing. The cross section that broke was atleast 3"x 1.5". i returned it with profuse complaining.... got a store credit or something. Now I look for "antique" tools whenever I need beefy or good steel (like chisels).

 

One autoparts guy was saying it was a hardened bolt, I don't think so, it drilled fairly easily.. mabe it WAS a case of bad hardware.

 

Nipper, I am headed to Island park later to go bolt hunting.... there are several salvage yards there, any you would recommend?

 

Bill

 

Wow we still have them?

 

ANy ot them are good on the strip. Novak in Oceanside isnt bad either. The really big junk yard is long gone though .

 

nipper

[DTL]

Wow we still have them?

 

ANy ot them are good on the strip. Novak in Oceanside isnt bad either. The really big junk yard is long gone though .

 

nipper

 

I tried like 5 places today and finally a dealership parts dept.

No luck, the Subaru parts guy printed out the same pic I have seen with the parts blow up. The Tesioners are an assembly that includes the bolt,

(link to pdf download http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/1990-1994_Legacy_Parts_Catalog_-_Engine/

the other idlers have a seperate part# for the bolt. I am going to try to figure out if they are the same bolt, prob not but....

 

This site has a parts forsale/wanted?

I will have a look

 

Bill

[hankosolder2]

I tried like 5 places today and finally a dealership parts dept.

No luck, the Subaru parts guy printed out the same pic I have seen with the parts blow up. The Tesioners are an assembly that includes the bolt,

(link to pdf download http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/1990-1994_Legacy_Parts_Catalog_-_Engine/

the other idlers have a seperate part# for the bolt. I am going to try to figure out if they are the same bolt, prob not but....

 

This site has a parts forsale/wanted?

I will have a look

 

Bill

 

Bill,

I have a screwed up EJ22 motor stitting in my folk's garage (about a 45 minute trip.) Unfortunately, the crank pulley is still on it. I won't be out there until this coming Sunday, but _IF_ I can manage to get the crank pulley off to access the tensioners, and you haven't found a bolt by yourself by then, I'll just send you a bolt gratis. I'll drop you a line if I have any luck on Sunday, OK?

 

Nathan

[DTL]

Bill,

I have a screwed up EJ22 motor stitting in my folk's garage (about a 45 minute trip.) Unfortunately, the crank pulley is still on it. I won't be out there until this coming Sunday, but _IF_ I can manage to get the crank pulley off to access the tensioners, and you haven't found a bolt by yourself by then, I'll just send you a bolt gratis. I'll drop you a line if I have any luck on Sunday, OK?

 

Nathan

OK!

 

I will let you know before you go whether to bother. My wife is losing patience to get our sailboat in the driveway I *may* have to just order it so I can get finished asap.

 

Thankyou for the offer

 

Bill

[DTL]

Well,

 

All indications indicate that Hocrest will be the man of the hour.

He's going to overnight the bolt in question to me. With luck by the end of the weekend my legacy will move on it own power.

It has been a rough day, we had to put down our wonderful dog... the vet came to our place. We are having a wake of sorts now.

I suppose this is not too "OT" for this board, some cars might be as loved as some pets. They get "pet names".... I guess love is just love where ever you find it.

I remember the day I had to put down my '77 toyota wagon.... very very sad, it had cancer too...

 

....anyway, I am not trying to be flippant...I am just a clown of sorts.

 

stay tuned, I have never done a timing chain/belt or timed a motor from scratch, so I may have some questions.

Bill

[Hocrest]

Glad I could help, sorry to hear about your dog....

[DTL]

Hey all,

 

I am trying to align the timing marks in prep for placement of the timing belt and have 2 questions:

 

1) what is the significance of the arrow >----> on the crank sprocket gear. it is at the 3 o'clock position when the notch on the crank sprocket tab aligns with the notch on the sensor housing.

 

more importantly

 

2) I am trying to turn my left cam sproket to align with the timing notch by rotating it backwards. it is less than 1/4 off so that is the smallest angle to rotate through. I must be pushing against the valve springs because it is very difficult to move. Is there any problem in turning the cam in the opposite direction to it's normal rotation? It is hard to get more than 5-10 degrees rotation with the strap wrench with I made, then, it springs back again. I suppose I have to make something like the tool described

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/FSM_Scans/Timing_belt4.jpg

camshaft sproket wrench.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[DTL]

never mind, I found something and it moverd easily

[DTL]

well, mostly.

 

She started and stalled a bunch of times, making a noise like the starter was not disengaging after starting. I was getting a TPS sensor error as well.

I rotated the throttle to its extreme positions a few times by hand and then it stayed runnining. TPS error went away.

 

It ran very smokly for about 20 min before i turned it off. I filled the radiator but it would not take all the fluid it lost. The temp gage went too high so I am guessing that the thermostat is stuck. It has plenty of oil. I rapped it with a hammer and a 6", 3/8 extension a few times and will recheck things later this AM.

Replacing the thermostat looks a bit more of the job than it was with my 1970 dodge dart...I haven't looked in the book on how to do it, if I have to, but I hope i don't have to remove the intake manifold.....

 

I also looks like the transmission fluid lines to the radiator did not survive this operation, beside me kickicking over the bucket that held what I drained out when removing the radiator, there was an additional puddle being fed by a steady drip. The knock sensor is giving an error signal, but I knew that it was bad from before.

 

So, questions are,

Will the starter solenoid heal itself, can i get some lube into the important area where it is binding and slow to retract?

 

Can I avoid somehow replacing the thermostat?

 

Is there any other surprises I can expect to be surprised by from a car that has sat not running, never started, for 2 years?

 

I can ignore the knock sensor, give it high octane, maybe put in a 560k resistor in its place or, is that too much cheating that will bite my a$$ sooner or later?

 

I supposed I should change out all of the fluids, I really hate fluids, fliters too.

 

It is unregestered and uninsured, I think I will give it a test ride early sunday morning before the police wake up.

 

I feel a little stupid for spending so much time and money troubleshooting a problem that was a failure in a 50 cent part. But, at the time I first got into it, I had no timing light and the timing belt seemed tight.... and I had no idea how a computer controlled ignition actually worked. I have to say this has been an education, too bad I HATE working on cars for the most part!

 

It will be some time before we can afford to buy new vehicle, so all the cussing, swearing and bleeding knuckles will not be in vane (vein?).

 

Bill

[hankosolder2]

Unlike older cars, the thermostat is on the RETURN from the radiator and is in the plastic housing on the waterpump down low. Two 10mm bolts, DONE. Subarus are notoriously difficult to fill with coolant properly-- it takes a LONG time and lots of "burping."

Are you sure the starter motor is hanging up mechanically? I've not seen this in a Subaru, but in some other cars, I've seen the ignition switch hang up in the "Start" position. You could pull the wire off the starter soleniod with the car running to check...

Re: other surprises from sitting- I'd just about bet that the brakes will have problems. Rusted discs/rotors, possibly rusted metal pad backing plates, possibly calipers/seals.

 

Let us know how you do.

 

 

Nathan

 

 

 

 

 

well, mostly.

 

She started and stalled a bunch of times, making a noise like the starter was not disengaging after starting. I was getting a TPS sensor error as well.

I rotated the throttle to its extreme positions a few times by hand and then it stayed runnining. TPS error went away.

 

It ran very smokly for about 20 min before i turned it off. I filled the radiator but it would not take all the fluid it lost. The temp gage went too high so I am guessing that the thermostat is stuck. It has plenty of oil. I rapped it with a hammer and a 6", 3/8 extension a few times and will recheck things later this AM.

Replacing the thermostat looks a bit more of the job than it was with my 1970 dodge dart...I haven't looked in the book on how to do it, if I have to, but I hope i don't have to remove the intake manifold.....

 

I also looks like the transmission fluid lines to the radiator did not survive this operation, beside me kickicking over the bucket that held what I drained out when removing the radiator, there was an additional puddle being fed by a steady drip. The knock sensor is giving an error signal, but I knew that it was bad from before.

 

So, questions are,

Will the starter solenoid heal itself, can i get some lube into the important area where it is binding and slow to retract?

 

Can I avoid somehow replacing the thermostat?

 

Is there any other surprises I can expect to be surprised by from a car that has sat not running, never started, for 2 years?

 

I can ignore the knock sensor, give it high octane, maybe put in a 560k resistor in its place or, is that too much cheating that will bite my a$$ sooner or later?

 

I supposed I should change out all of the fluids, I really hate fluids, fliters too.

 

It is unregestered and uninsured, I think I will give it a test ride early sunday morning before the police wake up.

 

I feel a little stupid for spending so much time and money troubleshooting a problem that was a failure in a 50 cent part. But, at the time I first got into it, I had no timing light and the timing belt seemed tight.... and I had no idea how a computer controlled ignition actually worked. I have to say this has been an education, too bad I HATE working on cars for the most part!

 

It will be some time before we can afford to buy new vehicle, so all the cussing, swearing and bleeding knuckles will not be in vane (vein?).

 

Bill

[DTL]

Unlike older cars, the thermostat is on the RETURN from the radiator and is in the plastic housing on the waterpump down low. Two 10mm bolts, DONE. Subarus are notoriously difficult to fill with coolant properly-- it takes a LONG time and lots of "burping."

Are you sure the starter motor is hanging up mechanically? I've not seen this in a Subaru, but in some other cars, I've seen the ignition switch hang up in the "Start" position. You could pull the wire off the starter soleniod with the car running to check...

Re: other surprises from sitting- I'd just about bet that the brakes will have problems. Rusted discs/rotors, possibly rusted metal pad backing plates, possibly calipers/seals.

 

Let us know how you do.

 

 

Nathan

 

OK, good.I went and bought a thermostat incase i need it.

 

I filled up the coolant reservoir yesterday and it sucked it all into the radiator.... so maybe it opened up on its own.

 

 

The big new thing is that a big bad leak has sprung from the transmission cooling lines area. Chilton doesn't mention it, but it looks like I have a tranny fluid filter located roughly down under where the battery is. Fluid seems to go from tranny to the filter then to the radiator then return back. The rubber lines from the tranny hook to a couple foot length of 2 parallel metal lines which run almost under the battery holder, then attach to rubber lines again.

 

I used some mineral spirits and some brake cleaner to clear away the gunk and maybe see where exactly the leak is coming from. I miss the days of freon and non-flamable degreasers. I am going to let it all dry for a while.

 

I guess battery drippings have corroded the metal lines, I am thinking of just putting in long rubber lines instead of hunting down and paying for custom subaru lines. I need somewhere cheaper than NAPA, they charged me about $12 for 2 ft, I probably need 2x3 feet.

 

later

[nipper]

That filter was a after facotry OE part.

 

Just replace all the rusted metal lines with rubber hoses. Thats what a shop would do anyway.

 

nipper

[DTL]

That filter was a after facotry OE part.

 

Just replace all the rusted metal lines with rubber hoses. Thats what a shop would do anyway.

 

nipper

 

 

Who is open on a sunday that sells it from a roll, NAPA sold me what they had precut and prepackaged...

 

autozone?

pepboys were just plain clueless

 

it can wait till monday i s'pose

[nipper]

Who is open on a sunday that sells it from a roll, NAPA sold me what they had precut and prepackaged...

 

autozone?

pepboys were just plain clueless

 

it can wait till monday i s'pose

 

I got mine from home depot.

 

nipper

[porcupine73]

I got trans cooler hose by the foot before from autozone. They have it in like 25' boxes and will sell you the length you want. Pretty sure Parts America will do the same thing.

 

Chilton doesn't mention it, but it looks like I have a tranny fluid filter located roughly down under where the battery is.

I lost track of what year your vehicle is, but if it is ~90-92 then it is probably the filter that was added under the TSB. Does it look roughly like a fuel filter? There were a few different kinds. Also some H6's have the ATF filter in this area too.