RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I have pulled the heads off my 87XT to do head gaskets. I know Im the only one in here based on factory gaskets I have found so far (ok ok...I know because I put the gaskets on the 1st time I was in here at 90k miles ago at 75k for a blown head gasket). I didn't pay any attention then - it was an off and on in one day deal as I had to go to work ya know...Anyway...It looks like I have 2 different heads on this thing. One has a "6" casting and one a "7". Shouldn't they both be the same? While on this subject, are there any other heads that will "bolt on" the case for performance, mileage, creativity or ??? Bill F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Casting numbers will be different because the heads are different. As far a performance heads, negative. You can get reground cams through delta. Thats about the exent of it, other than milling them slightly. Some say you can't take much off the heads or stuff won't bolt back up. I've had ej22 heads shaved .040 and everything worked. This will raise the compression ratio some. And help with performance, add some cams, open up the intake and exhaust some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 <Casting numbers will be different because the heads are different. > heads side to side or these two heads are different and should or shouldn't be the same? If they're supposed to be different, which one goes where? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpy Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 <Casting numbers will be different because the heads are different. > heads side to side or these two heads are different and should or shouldn't be the same? If they're supposed to be different, which one goes where? Bill Heads can not be swapped from one side to the other. Cam forward, exhaust ports down. Stumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Stumpy's right, the EA82 heads are not interchangeable like the EA81 heads, since the driver's side head has the distributor in it. (Hence the difference casting numbers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Stumpy's right, the EA82 heads are not interchangeable like the EA81 heads, since the driver's side head has the distributor in it. (Hence the difference casting numbers) Distributor drive is in the cam block and not the head so heads are interchangeable. So...anyone know what the difference in a "6" casting and a "7"? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Stumpy's right, the EA82 heads are not interchangeable like the EA81 heads, since the driver's side head has the distributor in it. (Hence the difference casting numbers) Uhhh, the distributor goes into the CAM case, not the head. As far as I know, the heads can be switched from side to side but things like the EGR port and the Turbo coolant and oil return lines make it specific side to side. But with a bit of drilling and tapping you could make a Drivers side head fit the passenger side and vice versa. Don't worry about different casting numbers on them. What I would check though, espescially since they are from an XT is the exhaust ports. Look into the exhaust port, where the pipe bolts on. On the inside, where the *wall* that runs across the middle meets the edge. Clean it with Carb cleaner and look real close for cracks in there. If there is a crack there, it can leak water into you're exhaust. Gen 2 and Gen 3 heads are less likely to crack (although I've had a Gen 3 with a crack there) Look on the bottom of the head for *EA82* casting mark. EA82=1st gen EA82=2nd Gen EA82 enclosed fully in a box= 3rd Gen Note: Don't worry about those cracks that are in the combustion chambers between the valves, they are normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 EA82 enclosed fully in a box= 3rd Gen Note: Don't worry about those cracks that are in the combustion chambers between the valves, they are normal. EA82 is boxed and no cracks between the valves. I will clean up the exhaust ports and check for cracks. The problem that started all this is Im currently working on is quick overheating. I figured it was the head gaskets again but unlike a "normal" blown gasket, I find no obvious failure area on both of these.... Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I would have checked the radiator and cap, thermostat and other less indepth places before yanking the heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 I would have checked the radiator and cap, thermostat and other less indepth places before yanking the heads. replaced the cap and themostat, radiator passed a flow check at local rad shop....hence the deep dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Ok, the jump to that makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 EA82 is boxed and no cracks between the valves. I will clean up the exhaust ports and check for cracks. Someone must have replaced the heads at some point, because the Gen 3 heads were only sold as replacement part by subaru. Did you put them on when you did the HG last time? Consider yourself lucky if you have no cracks between the valves. I mean they don't have any real negative affect but heads with 90k miles on them and no *btv* cracks are rare. As far as overheating issue. Was the timing spot on? I killed my very first Soob that way, too far advanced timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 i would also look for loss of coolant over an extended period of time. and use a Subaru thermostat. you'll be amazed at the difference, it's huge. the aftermarkets look like a toy compared to the extra large, beefy Subaru thermostats. huge difference. i wouldn't worry about "performance" or tweaking the heads. you could port the heads and gasket match the inlet ports, intake to head gaskets and the intake manifold. the gaskets don't line up that well and protrude into the head a lot. you could trim those down to make them flow a little better. i have pictures posted over at xt6.net. check us out over there for XT specific information. email or PM me and tell me what login you're using if you want to join and i'll speed your registration up. i'd ignore the designations...right and left, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 because the Gen 3 heads were only sold as replacement part by subaru. really? i assumed most late model XT's had generation 3 heads, for other reason than that's just what i thought. never really looked into it. the MPFI XT spider manifold motors are GENII from factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 the cracks between the valves are normal. you can try to close them up with a small punch or chisel, and tamp the edges lightly with a hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Someone must have replaced the heads at some point, because the Gen 3 heads were only sold as replacement part by subaru. Did you put them on when you did the HG last time? Consider yourself lucky if you have no cracks between the valves. I mean they don't have any real negative affect but heads with 90k miles on them and no *btv* cracks are rare. As far as overheating issue. Was the timing spot on? I killed my very first Soob that way, too far advanced timing. Gen 3 heads have been on the car from new...at least when we got the car in 1995 it had 77k on the clock they were the ones I took off to do the head gaskets at 92k. There are no cracks in the gap and there are currently 166k on them. Timing is on except for the 5 degree bump for altitude (Denver). Oh I know "performance" heads don't exist...I was just shooting for a smile. But I am curious is to weither EJ heads will work on an EA. Coolant loss over an extended period...? How 'bout 15 miles and stop to fill it up because its overheating...then another 15 miles...then another... Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 really? i assumed most late model XT's had generation 3 heads, for other reason than that's just what i thought. never really looked into it. the MPFI XT spider manifold motors are GENII from factory? I'm pretty sure. Perhaps by 90 or 91 they were getting the GEN 3 but in 87 like our OP's car they would definately have been gen 2 or even gen 1 in early 87(non spider). The OP never said which type of intake and what ECU type he has(flapper vs. hotwire MAF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Gen 3 heads have been on the car from new. Can't have been. They must have been replaced prior to you getting it. Or you have Gen 1 heads and are mistaking the smooth area around the *EA82* as a box. The gen 3 have a very pronounced rectangular box around the marking. Oh I know "performance" heads don't exist...I was just shooting for a smile. But I am curious is to weither EJ heads will work on an EA. No, not even close. Totally different beast. Unless you wanted to get into massive welding fabrication project. I still don't think it would be possible even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 i'll reaffirm what Gloyale said...now way EJ heads would work. not even close. it won't work mechanically and it won't work electrically either....i mean, anything is possible with enough money, but it would probably be easier to cast your own heads than make an EJ work. you'd have to fabricate either a gear on the EJ cam to drive the disty or go DIS on an EA82 since your XT is a gear driven distributor and the EJ stuff is all elecronically controlled, no distributor. not too mention the exhaust wouldn't work, the intake wouldn't work...basically swapping an entire EJ motor into your XT would be far, far easier. not easy...but easier than making EJ heads work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 <you'd have to fabricate either a gear on the EJ cam to drive the disty or go DIS on an EA82 since your XT is a gear driven distributor and the EJ stuff is all elecronically controlled, no distributor. not too mention the exhaust wouldn't work, the intake wouldn't work...basically swapping an entire EJ motor into your XT would be far, far easier. not easy...but easier than making EJ heads work.> yeah...we wont go there...just wonderin Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 yeah...we wont go there...just wonderinBillah come off it, you're no fun! anyway, good luck with the heads. if you're still doing it, i'd use the Fel Pro Permatorque (PT) headgaskets on this motor and crank the head bolts a few extra pounds. that is common practice in the subaru community and is the best way to do a headgasket job on an EA82. if you use Subaru gaskets or others you're supposed to retorque the head bolts and that is super annoying. the permatorques don't require retorque and they're inexpensive and well tested among the subaru community (hence all the recommendations you'll find). replace the cam carrier to head reinforced o-rings while it's apart. they are the little metal reinforced orings at the bottom corners, one per side. do not use a regular o-ring. the only other common source other than Subaru is http://www.thepartsbin.com for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 ah come off it, you're no fun! anyway, good luck with the heads. if you're still doing it, i'd use the Fel Pro Permatorque (PT) headgaskets on this motor and crank the head bolts a few extra pounds. that is common practice in the subaru community and is the best way to do a headgasket job on an EA82. if you use Subaru gaskets or others you're supposed to retorque the head bolts and that is super annoying. the permatorques don't require retorque and they're inexpensive and well tested among the subaru community (hence all the recommendations you'll find). replace the cam carrier to head reinforced o-rings while it's apart. they are the little metal reinforced orings at the bottom corners, one per side. do not use a regular o-ring. the only other common source other than Subaru is www.thepartsbin.com for those. I bit the bullit and bought a head set/kit from my local Subie dealer. THAT hurt let me tell ya when you see "kits" on ebay for $40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 The 40 dollar Kits on ebay are great for getting things like valvecover gaskets, exhaust gaskets, Cam seals, main seals and all that good stuff. You'd spend way more than that from the dealer for that stuff. Only thing that really is good to get from subaru are the HGs and the Intake gaskets. Although honestly I've used a few of those "Erastic" sets and they worked fine. One for 20,000 plus miles now, on a turbo. Of course I've retoqued both the HGs and the intake. The HGs I retorqued after about 100 miles driving and the intake I retorqued at 100 miles and then again after about 5000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMVR53 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 The 40 dollar Kits on ebay are great for getting things like valvecover gaskets, exhaust gaskets, Cam seals, main seals and all that good stuff. You'd spend way more than that from the dealer for that stuff. Only thing that really is good to get from subaru are the HGs and the Intake gaskets. Although honestly I've used a few of those "Erastic" sets and they worked fine. One for 20,000 plus miles now, on a turbo. Of course I've retoqued both the HGs and the intake. The HGs I retorqued after about 100 miles driving and the intake I retorqued at 100 miles and then again after about 5000 miles. Dealer cost on the HG was $66 ... total kit was $82...which I made a joke with the guy that if it was an EJ22 would it be only $22?...he didn't think it was funny.... Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Dealer cost on the HG was $66 ... total kit was $82...which Bill What did that kit include? If it had all the valve cover and timing cover gaskets, and all the cam,main and Oil pump seals that was a deal for sure. The dealer I go through ussually charges $30 just for the 3 oil pump seals and another $25 for just the valve cover gaskets. Cam and main seals are about $15 a piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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