dmr Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 My '01 Forester (98k) is in the shop for warranty head gasket replacement. I'm also having the timing belt and tensioner replaced. The rear main and oil separator are "seeping" and new seal and cover were recommended. It seems to be a no brainer given the mileage and the fact the engine is out of the car. However, the dealer quoted 1.5 hours labor for each. A total of three hours to pop in a new rear main and reseal the new separator cover on an engine that was/will be removed/reinstalled under warranty labor. This seems unreasonable, but they seem to have me since the engine is already out of the car. How much of the stink should I raise with the service manager? I'm already pretty irritated since they've had the car for 11 days for 8-9 hours of work. Thanks for your opinions. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondercow2 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 That's absurd. It takes maybe 30 minutes to do both when the engine is out, and that's doing it carefully. I'd casually ask why they're estimating so much, and escalate from there as needed. It's like timing belts and water pumps: Subaru's tech bulletins, I'm pretty sure, says specifically not to double-charge the labor for the water-pump when doing a timing belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 << However, the dealer quoted 1.5 hours labor for each. >> ask the dealer if this is a quote from an engine that is still in the car or one that is out. i'm thinking its for the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 nice call svxpert. i would want the separator and gasket replaced for sure. the rear main will likely never fail, it's the least likely seal to leak in a subaru going all the way back to their EA82 engines in the 80's even. it's easy to see if it's seeping or not, it's either dry or wet since it's so clean inside the bellhousing typically. but while you're there it's not a bad idea. it's about 30 minutes to do both of those. the suggestion that they're charging based on engine removal required sounds very plausible. my guess is they're going to stick to the books though and one of their mechanics will be very happy about that job since they get paid by the job, not time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Hi dmr. Also make sure you're getting a metal separator, not a plastic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 Thanks for the replies all. I spoke in person to the service manager this morning. Conveniently, my car was in the first bay, so I was able to show him what the proposed three hours of work entailed. I politely voiced my concerns, to which he said he'd double check the listed estimated work time. The tech that quoted the work was not there. Appartently, an estimated time for the rear main and oil separator as an add-on to a clutch job, etc was not listed. We agreed that 0.5hr was a fair estimate to perform the work. Also, the "seep" was very minor. The rear main was moist with seepage that did not extend down to the bottom of the housing. Same for the separator. If the tech gets reprimanded, I hope he doesn't take it out on the new seals. Thanks again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Also, the "seep" was very minor. The rear main was moist with seepage that did not extend down to the bottom of the housing. Same for the separator. If the tech gets reprimanded, I hope he doesn't take it out on the new seals. Thanks again... Well, if it leaks again in the next few months, you know where to take it...Then he can do it for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 Update - I picked up the car after hours and noticed that the tech had charged 1.5 hrs, but I was only billed $45/hr for the work. Still more than the quote, but not by much so I didn't say anything. No noticable leaks after a tank or two. However, driveside inner boot is now slinging grease. It was fine before entering the dealership shop, but it is the original and it could have gone on it's own (I replaced the passenger inner long ago). I can't help to think that the tech "helped" it fail for me calling BS on his 3 hour main seal/separator cover quote. I smelled the boot grease on the manifold the day I picked it up, but thought it was just burnoff from the engine R&R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 OMG, I have done this myself and I am no trained mechanic. Since the engine is out here this is what it takes Removing the flywheel to get to this stuff = 3 minutes Rear main seal replacement = 10 minutes separator cover replacement = 8 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 FWIW, the driver's side inner CV boot is almost always the first to go. It's right over a very hot exhaust system component. You'd think that Subaru would protect it with a heat sheild, but you'd be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstalker Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 the mechanic and service manager are double-dipping for labor. that's totally against the policy of pretty much every manufacturer, delaership, and good shop out there, and could possibly be considered fraud. the mechanic, and therefore the shop, is getting paid 5.4 hours (warranty time) by Subaru of America to replace the headgasket. this INCLUDES removing and re-installing the timing belt. if you opted to get the timing belt (and maybe idlers and tensioner, maybe even water pump...all are really good thigs to replace, especially by 98k) replaced, they can't charger you ANY labor for the belt, and only a tiny bit for the other timing parts. our shop generally charges no labor for the other timong parts dealing with a job like that, since we want the customer to do them for the sake of their car, and charging them for every little thing makes it much less appealing. they can charge you whatever list price they have for the PARTS. same goes for the rear seal and retaining plate. if the motor's out of the car (I do believe Subaru warranty time does pay for that), then those parts should be installed at only the cost of parts, plus maybe a little bit of labor...not much. So SoA is paying the shop for 5.4 hours of labor, and the shop has now also charged you for 3 more hours (albeit at a lower-than-normal rate), so they're double-dipping. They're screwing you, and screwing SoA as well. just please tell me they didn't try to charge you 2 or more hours labor to replace the timing belt and tensioner (already covered by SoA warranty time). There are a lot of really crooked shops, including dealerships, out there...you just have to find one that will treat you right. if they're charging you stuff that you really feel like you're (or SoA) getting screwed, call up the Subaru corperate customer service department 1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783). dealerships that are unfair about billing give the manufacturer a really bad name. don't be a jerk about it, just be sure you are treated fairly. ~Erik~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 <<So SoA is paying the shop for 5.4 hours of labor, and the shop has now also charged you for 3 more hours (albeit at a lower-than-normal rate), so they're double-dipping. They're screwing you, and screwing SoA as well. just please tell me they didn't try to charge you 2 or more hours labor to replace the timing belt and tensioner (already covered by SoA warranty time).>> i would agree to this BUT, why is the headgasket still under warranty when you have 90,000+miles? is it covered till 100,00? with that said, if its only the "headgasket" that is under warranty, the other parts, tentioner, rear main, separator plate woudn't be. right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 No additional labor for the timing belt and tensioner, only for the main seal and separator cover. The original 3 hour quote was reduced to 0.5 hrs (but actually billed at 1.5 hrs at the reduced rate). Re: the head gasket warranty - 100k warranty with the add stop leak recall. I've had a small external leak since 20k after the recall, I was waiting for it to get bad enough for the dealship to fix it. I brought it in with a small leak they claimed they couldn't find it (obvious leak on the driverside rear, visible from above and below). For the other parts, I paid list. The timing belt was covered under the headgasket warranty work, I was charge 0.5 hrs for the tensioner. The main issue was the 3 hr quote for replacing the main seal and resealing the oil separator cover on an engine that was sitting on a stand. I don't mind at all paying a reasonable price for addtional work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zstalker Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 good you didn't get totally screwed. still odd they charged for 1.5 hours, even at a reduced rate. if they billed it that way, the mechanic still got paid that 1.5 hours extra, the shop just got a little less. oh well... ~Erik~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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