Blew out my Helicoil doing 80 on 90

[tjxtreme]

A bad day got worse, when I was cruising down 90 W across Massachusetts. The helicoil I've had for 35k just popped out. I have a 99 Leg. Out. with 135k 2.5l.

 

Here's the history:

Blew out a spark plug at about 100k

Had a helicoil installed for a pretty penny

130k- spark plug blows out, not helicoil... I was in a rural area at the time, but fortunately I had left my ratchet set, spark plugs, and anti-sieze lube in my car the day before, so I just let it cool down and swapped it out.

Now, on the way to my brothers bachelor party, the whole deal goes on me.

 

When the tow truck arrived, we pulled out the loose wire (with spark plug attached to it) and saw that the spark plug had the helicoil around it, and the threads on the spark plug had melted. Yeah, the metal melted.

 

Almost 170 miles from home, and needing to make it to a party 200 more miles away in a few hours, the tow guy took me to an Avis so I could rent a PT Looser, purple. I had AAA gold, so they could tow 100 for free, and I ended up paying to get it towed home while I continued on my way.

 

New to the area (Cape Cod for a year long job), I didn't have a mechanic yet. I called my roommate and had her ask around her office for a respectable shop. My car is there now, but they can't even look at it until Tuesday. Other problems include me having no way to get to work, me not even having enough money to cover the tow and rental car (credit card for now).

 

WHAT SHOULD I DO AND HOW MUCH WILL IT COST!?

 

the tow guy even suggested...selling it! I am not ready for that, as I think that aside from this problem, the engine has a long life left.

 

THANKS!!

[Cougar]

If this was my car I would have a new head installed. I'm not sure what the total cost would be but it may be a something over $1,000 dollars to have a new one installed. Check your area for places that specialize in Subaru repairs and get a quote from them. They may be able to save you a little cash over a dealer shop but get a quote from them also just to see at least. You should also get the timing belts changed out if they haven't been changed yet if you do this repair. A new water pump may be good to do also.

 

This repair will be costly but hopefully you will not need another major repair for some time after this one.

 

Another more costly alternative, but may be a savings in the long run if you want to keep the car for another 5 years at least, is to replace the whole engine with a replacement from a place like CCR engines. This will give you a three year warranty on a engine that is basically new. If the car is in great shape besides the engine trouble it may be a good way to go.

[WoodsWagon]

If this was a 2.2l, i'd tell you to use one of those thread inserts, not a helicoil, but more like a sleeve that comes with a tap that bores an oversized hole in, you thread the sleeve in, then there's an expander that you punch in that locks it in place.

 

The 2.5l has the spark plugs down in the bottom of a hellhole, so I'd just replace the head with a used one.

[ccrinc]

If this was a 2.2l, i'd tell you to use one of those thread inserts, not a helicoil, but more like a sleeve that comes with a tap that bores an oversized hole in, you thread the sleeve in, then there's an expander that you punch in that locks it in place.

 

The 2.5l has the spark plugs down in the bottom of a hellhole, so I'd just replace the head with a used one.

 

The name of that is a Timesert. Very high quality product.

What brand of spark plugs are you using?

 

 

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

[tjxtreme]

Thanks,

 

So... on a 2.5L is a Timesert impossible to use, or just less convenient than the 2.2? Or, if I went with a head, any recommendations on where to get one if the mechanic will let me give him the part?

 

The timing belt has another 30k, since the previous owner had it changed early. Should I still get that and water pump changed?

[Cougar]

If I was doing this to my car I would get a new head. Why put on something used at this point when the head is off and getting something used could be a potential problem later on.

 

Change the belt now because labor costs later on will cost you more. You aren't saving any money by leaving it on for another 30k miles. Same with the pump. It is a good idea to replace it while you are in there and have 100k miles on the old one.

 

These things can be summed up by the wise old saying, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later".

[NoEyeSquareGuy]

I would just spend the money on a used complete or bare head; sounds like what's in there has had it. Do the timing belt and tensioner while you're in there, and the water pump if it hasn't been done yet.

[88RxTuner]

Ditto on the Insert vs. HeliCoils. helicoils are good for somethings, but when it really matters, like head bolts or spark plugs, they are not recommended. Have the head R&R, have an insert installed from a reputable manufacturer such as Time-Sert, yea this is possible on a 2.5L... Single or Dual cam.

Properly done, it will actually be stronger than your aluminum threads in the head. key word there, PROPERLY done. Find someone who knows what he's doing.

Cheaper than a head, New heads with NO valves or springs run between 4-700 each... remans 3-600 loaded.

[tjxtreme]

Thanks... how much could I expect for an insert (parts+labor)? Do they have to pull the engine? Or can it be installed with the engine mounted. The guy that did my helicoil was one of the few mechanics that would do it without pulling the engine, he just unmounted one side and tilted it. But, then again, it did just fail on me.

 

What about parts + labor for a head swap with timing belt and water pump? $1500 or so?

 

I think the water pump was replaced 70k ago with the timing belt.

 

Thanks again

[idosubaru]

if money is an issue i would not go $1,500+ into this job with new heads and all that. that's a significant amount of work. i don't think that's necessary.

 

if threads are the issue, fix the threads. at least have a mechanic look at it, they should have seen this before. your best bet is to check into a machine shop. they are very experienced working with metal and some will actually look at your vehicle and for work like this i've found machine shops will charge less than mechanics because it's more their specialty. i orchestrated a machine shop from 900 miles away to fix my friends toyota 4 runner that the dealer said "needed a new engine". my friend called me from the dealer and i told him they were FOS (full of stuff). i went to Yahoo! yellow pages and looked up all the machine shops in the area. i called a few of them and found one that was willing to look at it and work on it. a couple hundred later he was back in business. this was about 3 years ago, he drove his toyota to work this morning with a happy 260,000 miles on it. i've also had machine shops do many things for me in the past, they are very good at what they do. i'd call around and see if a local machine shop will fix it.

 

if you want to spend $1,500, let me know where you are in Ohio! i have a spare 2.5 engine that i might sell.

[tjxtreme]

So it turns out that the mechanic that my roommate recommended used to own a Subie shop. He didn't even think about anything except a heli coil. Apparently the first helicoil wasn't long enough, so he is confident that all it needed was a longer one- so this one should give the spark plug a little more purchase into the head. This guy didn't have to pull the engine or unmount it like all the other mechanics said.

 

It ended up costing $279, and it was back on the road only a couple hours after he looked at it.

 

Another great tidbit- he just replaced the spark plug wire and plug for that cylinder, and gave me the rest of the wires to use later. I'm tired of mechanics who try to say that all the wires and plugs need changed if there is a problem with one of them.

[WoodsWagon]

If the head has had one spark plug blown out of it, then one short helicoil blown out of it, then a longer helicoil put in, that longer helicoil WILL BLOW OUT. Each stage of the things you've blown out has taken a portion of the aluminum out of the hole. You're to the point that there ain't much to grab onto in the hole anymore, so putting in a longer helicoil will only buy you some time. Put an insert in, and it should be golden.

[idosubaru]

If the head has had one spark plug blown out of it, then one short helicoil blown out of it, then a longer helicoil put in, that longer helicoil WILL BLOW OUT. Each stage of the things you've blown out has taken a portion of the aluminum out of the hole. You're to the point that there ain't much to grab onto in the hole anymore, so putting in a longer helicoil will only buy you some time. Put an insert in, and it should be golden.

i second that notion.

 

although...at least you got 35,000 miles out of it the last time and the car will run on 3 cylinders. at least i think it does, mines a 6 cylinder and runs fine with one missing anyway (forgot to plug one in before).