86BRATMAN Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Check around the oil filter and drain plug too just to be sure. But it sounds like you've got something major going on there... How does the clutch feel. If it is leaking that bad from the rear main it would almost certainly get thrown onto the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Ya the time code says nothing major after 10pm but this is like 8pm, most of the time when the police show up they just say to ignore them and not worry about anything. Ya it's the purge control sylinoid not the pcv. And it's leaking not burning it unless it hits the catalic. I went out last night in a diffrent car to check on something the road I used to come home on from work had a streak from where I had been. As for the air filter the only dirty spot on it is right where the air moves to the intake and it's barley a diffrent color from the rest, it was changed about 3months ago and is white. Oil pump leak or a main seal leak will cause dramatic oil loss. Calave covers may, but they have to be practically falling off. My best guess would be the front main seal or oil pomp o rings or both. Your oil is literally being pumped out of the car, and its not safe fro other drivers or motorcyclists to keep driving like this. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Check around the oil filter and drain plug too just to be sure. But it sounds like you've got something major going on there... How does the clutch feel. If it is leaking that bad from the rear main it would almost certainly get thrown onto the clutch. I am with Shannon on this...did it leak this bad before changing the oil? The plug may not be tight or the crush ring wasnt replaced or installed?? Oil filter not tight? Trying to think simple first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 You just need to re-seal that motor. Valve cover gaskets, Cam seals, Front main, and the 3 seals for the Oil Pump. they are the Oil pump shaft seal(skirt seal/behind the pulley), oil pump body O-ring(big round O-ring), and Oil pump gasket ("Mickey mouse"). This is all easy to do when you remove the timing belts so recommend replacing them when you do the seals. Inspect and possibly replace the timing belt tensioners and idler pulley. You might want to replace the pan gasket, but it's a bit more of a PITA. I would tighten all the bolts and reseal all the other stuff and then see if you need to replace the pan gasket. The $65 dollar timing belt and tensioner sets on EBAY are pretty well recommended. For the rest of the seals, I personally would find the cheapest Headgasket kit on ebay I could (like $30) It will have all the rubber valve cover gaskets(including the for the timing cover) and also all of the Cam seals, and Front main seal(sometimes). Some sets even have the Oil pump seals. Best to get the Oil pump set from the dealer though.(about 40-50 bucks) At any rate buying the cheap HG kit will get you more than what you'd spend on the vavle cover gaskets alone form Subaru or parts store. Plus then you have extra exhaust gaskets, throttle body gasket, Valve stem seals, EGR, intake, and Head gaskets(the later two are questionable to use non OE Subaru) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Before we have the guy throw more moeny at his car that he might want or need to. Lets employ K.I.S.S. Go out and buy a couple cans of heavy duty engine degreaser. Let your engine cool off, spray in down with degreaser, being careful around the disty and electrical connections so as not to cause further problem. Let it sit on that cold engine so it can have time to eat away at the gunk built up. Grab a couple plastic bags, for disty alternator and such. Go to a car wash, and spray it off. Avoid the high pressure spray as much as you car, but if the grime is stubborn let it have it. You need to get the motor top and bottom as keep as you possibly can. Fill it with oil and drive home. Find the oil wet spots on the motor and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Before we have the guy throw more moeny at his car that he might want or need to. Lets employ K.I.S.S. Go out and buy a couple cans of heavy duty engine degreaser. Let your engine cool off, spray in down with degreaser, being careful around the disty and electrical connections so as not to cause further problem. Let it sit on that cold engine so it can have time to eat away at the gunk built up. Grab a couple plastic bags, for disty alternator and such. Go to a car wash, and spray it off. Avoid the high pressure spray as much as you car, but if the grime is stubborn let it have it. You need to get the motor top and bottom as keep as you possibly can. Fill it with oil and drive home. Find the oil wet spots on the motor and go from there. Thats what i said too nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Yeah, its cant be burning too much oil. I dont know if you used a crush washer on your drain plug but, I would get the copper ones from your parts store or ask for the ones at subaru. if you used a Nylon one, well I have had bad expierience with them, Its probably just me but I have had them back off the drain plug quite a bit, to where the ENTIRE underside of the cars body was coated, man is that a Pita to clean..... BUT FIRST get that car clean.... PCV is not a big deal to replace, if you dont have a brain you can borrow one from the autoparts guy, he should have enough sence to tell you how to do it.... BUT DONT LET HIM DO IT!!!! or touch anything at all!!! (just bad expierience with some local parts guys.....) EDIT Oh and take some dog arn pictures already, if you dont have a camera USE a PIC PHONE and email them to your account (use someone elses phone so you dont have to pay for it ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithless88 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Just found the where it might be leaking on the right side of the block (I will try and get some pictures tomorrow) it sat for the last 2 days in 100+ heat. All the oil that was there was dry had to move it today and it ran for about 2mins max. went and checked it and only 1 spot had fresh oil spots. Was already planning on getting degreaser to do some work on it. Also found out when they replaced it they did a partial synethic into it and also a 10w 30. So I got some normall oil gonna possibly drop the pan take out what is left and refill with the new oil check any spot where oil could come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Synthetic oil on old seals just isn't a good idea. Seams like it just makes them leak, probably removing the buildup that was keeping it from leaking. Can you describe the place you found the leak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithless88 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 If you look from on top and not the front it's almost directley behind the alt, planning on getting a much better shot of it tomorrow. If you can see the wires right above the alt they run right across the leaking area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 From on top of the head, or on the side of it. I know in that area there is the breather hose, and valve cover just off the top of my head. But I'm just stabbing in the dark and will wait patiently for your pic tomorrow:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithless88 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 If you look directley over the spfi cover look to the right were you can see the block and were it joins into a second piece of metal is where the leak that I have found so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Are you meaning the bellhousing, that bolts onto the back of the motor and then to the tranny? Kinda cornfused me there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithless88 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 I will get a pic with the spot in a box to show the area on which I'm refering to. Kinda hard to describe to someone on something that you can't see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 quick and dirty sketch. I forgot to label the center box as the engine block. The intake manifold and throttle body are hiding (not hiding) under the big black rubber SUBARU FI snorkel; the PCV valve is coming off the back of the intake manifold in approximately the location shown by my rectangle labeled PCV, and it goes into one of the hoses that connect to the big rubber snorkel. The alt, p/s pump, and compressor are there to give you guidance. The spark plugs, intake manifold, and exhaust all fasten to the cylinder head, and the cam cases bolt onto the ouside of them, and then the valve covers bolt onto the outside of the cam cases. The valve covers are the "side plates" of the engine, that says SUBARU on them (but with a bad oil leak that often getos completely covered up) You could have leaky valve covers; that would be right at the extreme edge of the engine, you could have a leak between cam case and cylinder head, you could have a leak between block and cylinder head, that would be a bad headgasket. probably not this one, but possibly. Is is on the front side of the engine, or the back side? you said pretty much right underneath the wires, so I am leaning towards bad valve cover gasket, but thats far from conclusive. here are some disassembled shots for you to help gain some better idea on "what is what" engine block bare pic http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/tardaeron/Head%20Gasket/Resizeofheadgasket081.jpg shot of passenger side with valve cover off, the hole you see is in the cam case, it is for the oil filler tube. The cam case is black and covered with oil grime, its sitting back against the frame rail. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/tardaeron/Head%20Gasket/Resizeofheadgasket021.jpg and a shot of the cam cases and valve covers on the bench http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/tardaeron/Head%20Gasket/Resizeofheadgasket032.jpg and a shot of the above, with the cylinder heads on the bench in front of them. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/tardaeron/Head%20Gasket/Resizeofheadgasket042.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithless88 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Gonna look at it better in the day tomorrow but from your sketch it is were the cam case meets the block on the driver side, mass majority if not all of the oil marks are on the left side only problemn with the right side is the torn boots and have put grease into the bay. And from what I have seen there is no oil from the pcv, but will check in better lighting. I double checked the code and it is for the purge control sylenoid. Also what would be a good way to go through my oil system and check everything(more so step by step for oil on it not familer to soobs). Already planning on getting degreaser and cleaning the engine to check for bad seal spots. Will also get pics of my newly acquired ramps they are monsters:lol: And will get pics up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Gonna look at it better in the day tomorrow but from your sketch it is were the cam case meets the block on the driver side, mass majority if not all of the oil marks are on the left side only problemn with the right side is the torn boots and have put grease into the bay. And from what I have seen there is no oil from the pcv, but will check in better lighting. I double checked the code and it is for the purge control sylenoid. Also what would be a good way to go through my oil system and check everything(more so step by step for oil on it not familer to soobs). Already planning on getting degreaser and cleaning the engine to check for bad seal spots. Will also get pics of my newly acquired ramps they are monsters:lol: And will get pics up. Cam case meets the head, the head meets the block. I will assume you mean cam case to head seal, that is not a gasket but rather a bead of RTV type sealant. To get it off, you have to take the timing belts off, the distributor out, and take the valve covers off and then the cam cases.. its about 60% of a headgasket job, BUT you do NOT have to remove the intake or exhaust whatsoever. You might want to do a compression check on this motor, and think about doing the headgaskets while you are in there? Let me put it this way: I would, but I fiddle with things alot. *Definitely* consider doing the timing belts and water pump, possibly oil pump.. check t belt tensioners and idlers.. etc. If you do not know when the timing belts were done last and this engine has over 100K (i didnt re read the whole thread) then its almost necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithless88 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 The motor has about 225k miles on it. If I'm doing that much mine as well do the rest while I'm at it just take the punch for the cost and time and have it be happy again instead of just spitting(leaking not spitting) it's oil at me. If I am going to do the whole job what would it intell as in time, money, anger when the car is winning:-p I'm use to working on a toyota which for the most part everything is easy to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 money factor shouldnt be that much - complete gasket set can be found on Ebay pretty reasonably.Dont forget the seals behind the cam sprockets on the front, also do the crank seal. not sure if those are in the gasket sets or not. My 89 leaked pretty bad from those and trashed a timing belt because of it (and me not changing them when i did the belts the first time!)time factor - welll...that can, and will, vary. depends on how skilled you are, how tough things are to get apart, and how quickly you get frustrated! :Dsuggestion - get a box of cheap ziplock baggies to place fasteners in and a sharpie marker to write on the bag what they belong to - keeps things from getting lost, and reassembly easier!timing belt cover bolts can be a REAL pain - especially the lower ones.good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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