R12 retrieval

[Turbone]

Anyone have any ideas on getting the r12 out of a AC system (without going to a Shop)?

I really dont want to vent it to the atmosphere and would love to have some on hand to replenish the systems I have that havent been converted.

Is it worth it?

[cleelum]

any friend(s) in the HVAC industry you could borrow a pump from ??

[Caboobaroo]

Unless you have an R12 evac setup to use, the only other way is to go to a shop but usually, if you have them evac it, they'll give you money for it. I'd do that, convert it, and then go back and have the same shop recharge it with some R134a.

[Turbone]

Caboobaroo Unless you have an R12 evac setup to use, the only other way is to go to a shop but usually, if you have them evac it, they'll give you money for it. I'd do that, convert it, and then go back and have the same shop recharge it with some R134a.

 

Well, that would be all fine and dandy...BUT...this compressor is a core return for Ed and I just wanted to be able to recycle the stuff without to much of a hassle. Seeing how the car is not going to roll anywhere without it being on a flatbed:-\

[daeron]

Well, that would be all fine and dandy...BUT...this compressor is a core return for Ed and I just wanted to be able to recycle the stuff without to much of a hassle. Seeing how the car is not going to roll anywhere without it being on a flatbed:-\

I am a tree-hugger galore, through and through, its in my blood.

 

but the fact of the matter is that any refrigerant thats been manufactured is going to wind up in the upper layers of our atmosphere sooner or later anyhow; not much breaks down in day to day use, it leaks out.

 

Sure there are ways to hold it better than in our car's AC systems, where thy wont leak out.. and its ALWAYS best to get every bit of use out of this chemical thats already been made, and so its already gonna get up there anyhow... I ALWAYS strive to do so when its possible.

 

But, if it is a major difficulty.. like I said, every molecule is gonna wind up there eventually. THAT is the true devil of the entire problem; all the CFCs will be up there, and dont deteriorate for fifty years. So, we have to stop, and wait, for decades before we see any improvement. Anyhow, my point is that I don't let it guilt trip me too much when I have to vent that stuff into the atmosphere. It isnt like pouring oil or antifreeze into the sewer, or out in a puddle behind the garage... because it is hoped that those products will never wind up there, if disposed of properly. With refrigerants, its just a matter of using it as much as possible before it goes there anyhow.

[Turbone]

Pretty good article here about the "greenhouse effect". I dont want this post to turn into a big enviromental issue and get sent to OT. So lets keep it to ow to get it out of the system without venting it out please.

 

Artificially created chlorofluorocarbons are the strongest greenhouse gas per molecule. However, low concentrations in the atmosphere reduce their overall importance in the enhancement of the greenhouse effect. Current measurements in the atmosphere indicate that the concentration of these chemicals may soon begin declining because of reduced emissions. Reports of the development of ozone holes over the North and South Poles and a general decline in global stratospheric ozone levels over the last two decades has caused many nations to cutback on their production and use of these chemicals. In 1987, the signing of the Montreal Protocol agreement by forty-six nations established an immediate timetable for the global reduction of chlorofluorocarbons production and use.

This is where I got it from.

http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7h.html

[Caboobaroo]

It is also highly illegal to dump it straight into the ozone as well.

 

well really there are only 2 options I can really see Rob. First off is to get it somewhere to have it evacuated out or second, barely crack one of the valves and let it out over the course of a couple days. There's really no way that I've heard of to evac it yourself unless you have the super duper evac machine which is very $$$

[ZRX Doug]

I gotta plan..stand back, this one's monumental, I tells ya!

 

Okay: First, you build a small air-tight building, just big enough to pull the car into..once you've pulled the car in and donned your scuba gear, you open the A/C system up, allowing all the nasty freon to escape into your car-sized shoebox..now, you fire up your trusty Harbor Freight compressor,(I forgot to mention you need to put a trusty Harbor Freight compressor in the shoebox with you and the car, didn't I? Damn! Hopefully, you chose to read ahead and are not trapped for eternity in a box fulla R-12..) sucking the room's air into the compressor tank..it'll prolly be necessary to empty the tank into some spare airtanks so you can repeat this operation until the room has achieved some semblance of a vaccum..at this point, you can safely remove the desired component from the system, after removing the car, yourself, and your sixty-odd airtanks from the shoebox.

Next slap some "hazardous waste" stickers on your collection o' freon tanks, and bury 'em in lead-encased concrete.

 

Pretty simple, huh?

[daeron]

thanks for adding some copy and pasted "science" there.

 

I hate to do this; I was simply saying that i feel more guilty throwing an aluminum can out while on the wrong highway than I feel about the occasional times in the past that I have in fact, broken this law, regarding air conditioning...

[WoodsWagon]

Most of the HVAC guys have a portable recovery system. Look one of the local guys up in the phone book, give them a call, and they'll probably suck it out for free. I'm friends with a HVAC tech down the street, and he has the setup for sucking R12 and R134A out of cars, plus he has a pair of vicegrips with a needle in them for recovering out of sealed systems.

 

He said that back in the old days, he used to dump 4-500 lb commercial R12 systems to the atmosphere "we used to just crack a fitting and stand back, course if we'd known how much it would be worth now, we wouda saved it."

 

So in the scheme of things you dumping the small amount isn't the worst thing in the world, but if you can avoid it, it's the right thing to do.

 

CFC's are really stable molecules, and they act as a catalyst, so it's not like each bit you dump destroys only and equal amount.

 

Saying that it's all gonna end up there anyway so you might as well dump it now is a cop out. It's kinda the same mentality of dumping your used oil out in the back yard, hey it came from the ground to start with, why not return it.

[subaruguru]

thats weird how old is the car the ac is in cause on my turbo car (86) i was taking it apart and nothing came out just a little oil but that was from the compressure. :-\

[Turbone]

Most of the HVAC guys have a portable recovery system. Look one of the local guys up in the phone book, give them a call, and they'll probably suck it out for free. I'm friends with a HVAC tech down the street, and he has the setup for sucking R12 and R134A out of cars, plus he has a pair of vicegrips with a needle in them for recovering out of sealed systems.

 

He said that back in the old days, he used to dump 4-500 lb commercial R12 systems to the atmosphere "we used to just crack a fitting and stand back, course if we'd known how much it would be worth now, we wouda saved it."

 

So in the scheme of things you dumping the small amount isn't the worst thing in the world, but if you can avoid it, it's the right thing to do.

 

CFC's are really stable molecules, and they act as a catalyst, so it's not like each bit you dump destroys only and equal amount.

 

Saying that it's all gonna end up there anyway so you might as well dump it now is a cop out. It's kinda the same mentality of dumping your used oil out in the back yard, hey it came from the ground to start with, why not return it.

 

That was the most useful out of all the replies, thanks.

 

Ed will get his core, not matter what I do. Guess my best bet for the future of my existing AC units is to just get them converted and say the heck with r12.

[daeron]

So in the scheme of things you dumping the small amount isn't the worst thing in the world, but if you can avoid it, it's the right thing to do.

I couldn't agree more. BUT...

Saying that it's all gonna end up there anyway so you might as well dump it now is a cop out. It's kinda the same mentality of dumping your used oil out in the back yard, hey it came from the ground to start with, why not return it.

That is simply not true. If you recycle your used motor oil, they recycle it and re use it, or dispose of it properly.. but if you "recycle" your R12, it gets used to recharge other R12 systems, from which it will gradually, ultimately, leak out. Recycling refrigerant is a delaying action- no more. it WILL wind up in the upper levels of the atmosphere; now, or later. That was my only point.

 

Do your best to find someone to come out and "steal" it from you; thats the upright thing to do.. but don't lose sleep because you destroyed the environment if circumstances force you to crack a line and vent it; you merely failed to delay the inevitable.

[rllywgn]

I couldn't agree more. BUT...

 

That is simply not true. If you recycle your used motor oil, they recycle it and re use it, or dispose of it properly.. but if you "recycle" your R12, it gets used to recharge other R12 systems, from which it will gradually, ultimately, leak out. Recycling refrigerant is a delaying action- no more. it WILL wind up in the upper levels of the atmosphere; now, or later. That was my only point.

 

Do your best to find someone to come out and "steal" it from you; thats the upright thing to do.. but don't lose sleep because you destroyed the environment if circumstances force you to crack a line and vent it; you merely failed to delay the inevitable.

 

 

My hope in the scheme of things as that most refrigerants stay inside a sealed system..

 

As stated above the only true effective way to empty your A/C system is with a recovery pump which is like a pass through vacuum pump.. it pulls it from the system and pumps it into a recovery tank. the recovered refrigerant by epa regulations either must be destroyed, reused in the original source it was removed from, or reclaimed ( recyled to an ARI standard).

 

conversion will make the long run for service easier, but 134a needs a larger condensor to be as efficient as the r12 was in your car. also plan on replacing the filter drier for best results and pulling a vacuum on the system before refilling.

 

FYI r404 is a replacement for r12 but requires a different oil.

but you still need a epa certificate to handle it..

 

rllywgn

EPA certified

Professional service tech.