60K Service for 2005 Forester

[Subarob007]

Hello, All:

 

My 2005 Forester is ready for its 60K service. The local dealer insisted that that service be done at their shop for $600.00

Can anyone recommend a more reasonable quality alternative to have the 60K service done for a more reasonable price? and is it true that the 60K service must be done at the dealer? I live in the Santa Rosa, CA (Sonoma county) area, but am willing to go to San Francisco or Oakland, CA for the service.

 

Thanks

 

Robert

[idosubaru]

mileage services are a huge money maker, that's where dealers make tons of money. dealers bank on and count on service for a huge percentage of their income. they don't make much at all on selling new vehicles, percentage wise they make the least money on new vehicles as compared to service and used vehicles. you're really paying $600 for nothing...or maybe $50 worth of work at most. dealer is not required at all...actually nothing is required, i would like to see your service manual as i don't have them all memorized, but you probably need very little if anything at all. look through the 60,000 mile service interval yourself listed in your owners manual and see what you'd like done. you shoudn't need any more than an oil change, change your trans fluids and maybe spark plugs/accessory belts. if you have the 2.5 liter EJ25 engine, then your big service interval is 105,000 miles. i'd have everything done there, coolant system flush, timing belt, water pump, etc. that will run$600-$1,000. this vehicle/engine doesn't typically need much of anything prior to that - maybe spark plugs, brake work, etc, but the engine and trans typically don't need anything.

 

the problem with "services" is that you're way over-charged by design. they list a 120 point service including all sorts of inspections and such. the problem is, those inspections literally take less than 10 seconds and they really don't check anything. i mean...if your brake fluid, power steering fluid or diff fluid were low, you'd be leaking oil, it would be burning off your exhaust and something wouldn't be working right. it's is very, very odd for a 2005 with such low mileage to have any issues. it's like saying "check seats for irregular wear, inspect ash tray, etc..." a bunch of bogus, minor, unlikely things to check...except it's in engine, transmission, and chassis terms that most car owners don't understand. but it's equally basic and rediculously benign.

 

at most, list the 60k service interval stuff for us here, and we'll help you decipher it.

[porcupine73]

AFIAK Subaru service does not have to be done at the dealer for warranty to remain in place. I've heard Kia is really bad about that. Of course that dealer insists they do the work, this kind of work is a gravy job - doesn't take long to do and they make $$$ of it.

 

Let's see...what actual work does '05 Forester 60k service entail (not including inspections of fuel hoses, brakes, etc)...replace engine oil and filter, replace engine coolant, replace fuel filter, replace air filter, replace spark plugs, replace brake fluid, rotate tires

 

Any decent shop can handle that work. The benefit of having it done at a Subaru dealer is you will get OEM Subaru parts. If you go elsewhere, make sure they use NGK or other Subaru recommended plugs. Also if you go to other than a dealer for the coolant, make sure they know how to get any trapped air out, and don't let them use dexcool or all makes/all models coolant in there.

 

Yes as grossgary said this is a good time to get all fluids replaced if it hasn't been done already - differentials, transmission, steering, etc. Inspect ashtray....yes that's a good one. Top off oil, drain wallet.

[idosubaru]

of that list he just mentioned i would not have the coolant changed myself. i'd have it flushed at the 100k/105, service with the timing belt and water pump. just a coolant system flush alone usually runs $100. i'd expect an indepent would take care of those items for $300 range...problem is finding a good service person, dealers by no means automaticallly count as "good".

[porcupine73]

That's so true. A good shop is hard to find. I found the maintenance stuff at http://www.subaru.com/owners/schedules/index.jsp

[uniberp]

they don't make much at all on selling new vehicles, percentage wise they make the least money on new vehicles as compared to service and used vehicles.

 

I heartily disagree with this statement. Dealers make a great deal more than you imagine on each new car. Far more than they make on the service of that car over it's entire life. Maintenance is gravy, I'll grant, but not the other.

[idosubaru]

I heartily disagree with this statement. Dealers make a great deal more than you imagine on each new car. Far more than they make on the service of that car over it's entire life. Maintenance is gravy, I'll grant, but not the other.

good point, this gets tricky. they (define they)make more money on the financing of a new vehicle, not the actual sales price of the new vehicle. they make a great deal on financing...which is highly driven by new vehicles, so you are correct. i am not sure how that financing profit gets distributed, but it doesn't all go to the dealer since they are not a lender. a good consumer can purchase a new vehicle such that the dealer makes $500-$1000 on that vehicle. financing and service can greatly surpass that, though i'm not sure what percent of financing actually stays with that particular dealer...but surely the actual lending arm gets most.

[porcupine73]

Does Subaru do that 'hold back' thing with the dealers, like where the dealer gets $1000 or whatever back after the car is sold, but keeps the apparant 'dealer invoice' price higher?

 

Also I hadn't heard of it before, but there is this 'Subaru VIP' program you can get through various groups which I guess gets you the vehicle at dealer invoice price? But you have to be a member of that group for at least 6 months to qualify. A google search shows up a number of qualifying groups.

[GL-10 Turbo]

Hello, All:

 

My 2005 Forester is ready for its 60K service. The local dealer insisted that that service be done at their shop for $600.00

Can anyone recommend a more reasonable quality alternative to have the 60K service done for a more reasonable price? and is it true that the 60K service must be done at the dealer? I live in the Santa Rosa, CA (Sonoma county) area, but am willing to go to San Francisco or Oakland, CA for the service.

 

Thanks

 

Robert

 

You go to LIC Motorsports, and be done with it. We take our vehicles there, almost exclusively...and I WORK at a dealership.

 

Here's a list of their 30/60/90k services. You go there ONCE, and I promise you that your car will NEVER go anywhere else.

 

Honest? Umm, they're more honest than <insert deity here> in ALL of their business dealings, and will try to talk you OUT OF purchasing more than what's needed.

 

Competent? They know more about Subaru than Subaru knows about Subaru. Simply that...oh, but they're definitely humble about it...which keeps them from being obnoxious about it.

 

We live in Sebastopol, and pass up... PJ's Foreign (Santa Rosa), Prestige Subaru (I work at another dealer), and a few other shops on the way to LIC Motorsports. Trust me, once you go there, you'll pass those places up too...

 

BTW, you can watch them in their shop LIVE if you would like to see and talk with them in real time.

[GL-10 Turbo]

I heartily disagree with this statement. Dealers make a great deal more than you imagine on each new car. Far more than they make on the service of that car over it's entire life. Maintenance is gravy, I'll grant, but not the other.

 

I'm sorry, but I can honestly say that the people who choose to maintain their vehicle at a dealership, either under the assumption it's the only way to maintain the warranty, or not knowing any better, will spend FAR more money and contribute FAR more profit to the service and parts departments than the sales department could EVER hope to make on the biggest "whale"...

 

"Whale" - term for someone who walks in, pays MSRP, buys all the accessories, the "protectant", the extended warranty, etc.

 

Honestly, for the vast majority of dealerships, the service and parts departments are what keeps the doors open. Used cars, on the other hand, are a different animal. I've seen what happens there...and that's the only way the sales department can carry their end of the "overhead load".

[86BRATMAN]

Competent? They know more about Subaru than Subaru knows about Subaru. Simply that...oh, but they're definitely humble about it...which keeps them from being obnoxious about it.

 

I'm sorry, but this is a little pretentious. And quite over zealous.

[pleiad7]

I'm sorry, but this is a little pretentious. And quite over zealous.

 

If you think so... I don't know anyone who didn't rave about them after taking their car there.

 

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165148

[86BRATMAN]

There is an old man down the road from me, he has worked on subaru's since the mid 70's. He knows all the ins and outs of just about every model there has been. And I've learned a lot from him in the years before this board, and still visit him from time to time just to chit chat. And I'm not willing to say he knows more about subaru that subaru, thats just dumb. More about subaru than a good percentage of the employees yes. But the company no.

 

Unless they can tell me exactly how many damned 91-94 Turbo legacy's were imported, and give me an accurate count of many were 5mt and how many were auto. If they can do that then I'll retract my previous statement and crawl into a hole.

[eryque]

I'm sorry, but I can honestly say that the people who choose to maintain their vehicle at a dealership, either under the assumption it's the only way to maintain the warranty, or not knowing any better, will spend FAR more money and contribute FAR more profit to the service and parts departments than the sales department could EVER hope to make on the biggest "whale"...

 

"Whale" - term for someone who walks in, pays MSRP, buys all the accessories, the "protectant", the extended warranty, etc.

 

Honestly, for the vast majority of dealerships, the service and parts departments are what keeps the doors open. Used cars, on the other hand, are a different animal. I've seen what happens there...and that's the only way the sales department can carry their end of the "overhead load".

 

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I'd like to know what information you have to support this opinion since it's the opposite of my experience.

 

A good friend of mine was the service manager for a large Buick dealer. When he started the service department was lucky to break even, but he found ways to make it profitable and after a few years it was even an integral part of their revenue forecast. This Buick dealer was part of a large dealership chain (which included Subaru at one location), and his service shop was the first in the chain to be profitable.

[idosubaru]

A good friend of mine was the service manager for a large Buick dealer. When he started the service department was lucky to break even, but he found ways to make it profitable and after a few years it was even an integral part of their revenue forecast. This Buick dealer was part of a large dealership chain (which included Subaru at one location), and his service shop was the first in the chain to be profitable.

there could be a number of explanations. first of all...how long ago are you talking? there was a major shift in the industry from the 80's to the 90's. if that's when he "found ways", then he just rode the wave rather than did anything overly significant. dealer revenue statistics made drastic across the board changes from the 80's to the 90's. major changes. or it's anecdotal, either way it's not industry wide experience right now anyway.

 

if you don't believe me, go to the bookstore or library o rlook it up online, this information isn't all that hard to find. the numbers are staggering, some years new car sales offer NEGATIVE profit margins, the numbers are really tiny. that's rare that they are negative but the profit margins are really small, smallest margins of their overall revenue. this can go as long and deep as you want it in terms of economics and industrial engineering...there's some cool stuff here.

 

bottom line, new car profits aren't jack, go check out the data. key word "profits". new car sales contribute most of the revenue, but dinky profit margins.

[eryque]

there could be a number of explanations. first of all...how long ago are you talking?

 

1998-2000

[Petersubaru]

mileage services are a huge money maker, that's where dealers make tons of money. dealers bank on and count on service for a huge percentage of their income. they don't make much at all on selling new vehicles, percentage wise they make the least money on new vehicles as compared to service and used vehicles. you're really paying $600 for nothing...or maybe $50 worth of work at most. dealer is not required at all...actually nothing is required, i would like to see your service manual as i don't have them all memorized, but you probably need very little if anything at all. look through the 60,000 mile service interval yourself listed in your owners manual and see what you'd like done. you shoudn't need any more than an oil change, change your trans fluids and maybe spark plugs/accessory belts. if you have the 2.5 liter EJ25 engine, then your big service interval is 105,000 miles. i'd have everything done there, coolant system flush, timing belt, water pump, etc. that will run$600-$1,000. this vehicle/engine doesn't typically need much of anything prior to that - maybe spark plugs, brake work, etc, but the engine and trans typically don't need anything.

 

the problem with "services" is that you're way over-charged by design. they list a 120 point service including all sorts of inspections and such. the problem is, those inspections literally take less than 10 seconds and they really don't check anything. i mean...if your brake fluid, power steering fluid or diff fluid were low, you'd be leaking oil, it would be burning off your exhaust and something wouldn't be working right. it's is very, very odd for a 2005 with such low mileage to have any issues. it's like saying "check seats for irregular wear, inspect ash tray, etc..." a bunch of bogus, minor, unlikely things to check...except it's in engine, transmission, and chassis terms that most car owners don't understand. but it's equally basic and rediculously benign.

 

at most, list the 60k service interval stuff for us here, and we'll help you decipher it.

you forgot to mention also the "lubrication" of the door hinges

[idosubaru]

NICE - lubricate door hinges, EXACTLY!

 

1998-2000

okay, that would be anecdotal. during that time dealers were experiencing very good profit margins in the parts and service departments, so something was missing there. check out the industry data and you'll see that's not the norm, it's an insightful exercise anyway.

[GL-10 Turbo]

I'm sorry, but this is a little pretentious. And quite over zealous.

 

I'm sorry, but having a technician/mechanic who can do a complete JDM (CARB legal, BTW) motor and drivetrain swap without having to look at the wiring diagram...knows it from memory...

 

...I don't see that as pretentious. I know there's very few people who could claim that level of competence. The nice thing is that while he can do that, and does, he is a very humble person who would never brag about his talents/skills. I tend to tell people how good he is, because he IS that good. I'm not saying there aren't others who can do a good job on working on the Subarus, but that level of skill and talent deserves to be recognized for what it is.

[86BRATMAN]

If I were to study the wiring schematics I'm sure I could do it too. I've done jdm honda motors swaps on about 10 cars in my area, making a jdm h22a out of a prelude interface with the wiring of an accord dx isn't a picnic...

 

Anybody can do wiring under two conditions, they know what must be done, and they don't have fear when looking at a glob of messy wiring that must be shrunk and intergrated.

 

Now, under the circumstances, take a step back and look at your previous statement and analize for yourself without the knowledge you've presented and see if it is not pretentious.

[GL-10 Turbo]

Unless they can tell me exactly how many damned 91-94 Turbo legacy's were imported, and give me an accurate count of many were 5mt and how many were auto. If they can do that then I'll retract my previous statement and crawl into a hole.

 

How many Subaru engineers can tell you what works and doesn't and what'll fit and what doesn't outside of the factory guidelines??

 

Umm...there are some people here who know more about Subaru than Subaru. Trial and error, learning to retrofit parts that were never designed for usage in particular platforms...for instance the 5-lug conversion...how many factory engineers could tell you that it can be done, and then proceed to tell you how to do it?? I'm guessing very few...if any.

[pleiad7]

If I were to study the wiring schematics I'm sure I could do it too. I've done jdm honda motors swaps on about 10 cars in my area, making a jdm h22a out of a prelude interface with the wiring of an accord dx isn't a picnic...

 

Anybody can do wiring under two conditions, they know what must be done, and they don't have fear when looking at a glob of messy wiring that must be shrunk and intergrated.

 

Yeah, ok...

 

And how many magazines have you been featured in?

 

This pic is of Adam @ LIC... (aside from SCC he's also been written up in the Japanese Impreza magazine):

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0403scc_subaru_gbd_wrx_engine/photo_11.html

[GL-10 Turbo]

If I were to study the wiring schematics I'm sure I could do it too. I've done jdm honda motors swaps on about 10 cars in my area, making a jdm h22a out of a prelude interface with the wiring of an accord dx isn't a picnic...

 

The point I was making is that he doesn't have to study the wiring diagrams. You could hand him the JDM wiring harness, the USDM wiring harness to the vehicle he's installing it into, and he'd be able to complete it PROPERLY from memory.

[86BRATMAN]

I don't need to be in a magazine to know what I'm doing. If you like references I'll pm you phone numbers. I didn't do the swaps to attain glory, I did them to help my friends make their cars into what they wanted.

 

Actually, here's a number 276-979-7097, ask for Brandon. And ask him about his 94 Accord with the H22a and who did it.

[86BRATMAN]

The point I was making is that he doesn't have to study the wiring diagrams. You could hand him the JDM wiring harness, the USDM wiring harness to the vehicle he's installing it into, and he'd be able to complete it PROPERLY from memory.

 

And he was born with this knowledge of wiring?