The Dude Abides Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 I noticed that on my wagon the front wheel seems to be turned in on the bottom almost like it was lifted off the ground and were hanging there. Ive seen older front wheel cars like this and was wondering if i pick up some new wheels is this going to make them wear out faster. P.S. on a side note This websight rocks. i dont consider banter in threads waistful but then again i dont half to monitor them either. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Sounds like positive camber to me rather than toe in... here's a link to a site that I found helpful (got nice pictures!) clicky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Yes, that's positive camber. Toe in is where the front of the wheels poinr into each other. Toe is much better then toe out and positive camber is better then negative. I still don't understand Subaru's intention when the designed this suspension. Maybe they thought everyone was going to lower their Subies..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Yes, that's negative camber. Positive camber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 haha.. I shouldn't type when my brain wants to do other things.. fixed now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Maybe they thought everyone was going to lower their Subies..... At least they think like me:headbang: Back to the topic, no it won't cause your wheels to wear out at all. Your tires will wear as they normally do. They were designed this way, for reasons we don't understand. So what you are seeing is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubastreet Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Toe is much better then toe out . Depends - toe in leads to greater stability at speed, toe out helps with fast cornering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I still don't understand Subaru's intention when the designed this suspension. Well on 2wds, the camber is perfect. And I think that the funky Camber actually helps with turning radiuis. And when you lean hard into a highspeed turn the strut compresses and the camber becomes normal for that wheel again. But really I think it's a matter of cheaping out. They should have made 2 different control arms, or different knuckles, or just different strut mount locations or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I still don't understand Subaru's intention when the designed this suspension. Maybe they thought everyone was going to lower their Subies..... Worked out quite well on mine:grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 At least they think like me:headbang: Back to the topic, no it won't cause your wheels to wear out at all. Your tires will wear as they normally do. They were designed this way, for reasons we don't understand. So what you are seeing is normal. I disagree. Every 4wd wagon I have had has had the positive camber issue. And every on has worn the outer edges of the front tires at a disproportionate rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I should have been more clear on that as well. I don't mean normally as flat and even across the tire. I mean normally as in how 4wd subaru's wear tires. Disproportional at the outer edge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 I guess my concern is. McBrat is kind enough to sell me some newer tires for my car and i dont want them to wear out faster then normal. I do need new struts though. Also i noticed that the rear driverside has the same bald edges on the rear tire. Would bad wheel bearing cause this. they have been fixed though. Im trying to see about getting the xt struts. maybe buy new. Well see. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 As the wheels go down on these subarus (either front or rear) they get mor positive camber. I have a feeling that the 2WD versions with their lower struts have good camber but the jacked up 4WD versions didn't compensate and now they all have stupid camber. New struts won't help, you need to move the top of the strut inward to fix this problem. Or you can move the bottom control arm outwards (much harder to do) to fix it. On the rear you can't do anything really. If your car is a road car and you only want the 4WD for snow on the roads then you could lower it an inch or two front and rear. For the rear: via putting stiffer springs off an honda accord in and cutting them or getting some new ones made to fit. For the front: you may have adjustable spring purches or you may need to cut those springs too. There are many ways to lower and improve you cars ride, so make sure you research that if you want to go that way. As for lifted rigs, we're screwed there.. Try looking into caster top strut plate adjusters.. I know there is a couple of people on here with that kind of setup on their EA82 cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 For the front: you may have adjustable spring purches or you may need to cut those springs too. Seems to me it would be easier to just use a shorter spring/strut combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Abides Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Seems to me it would be easier to just use a shorter spring/strut combo And thats where you come in:grin: Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBrumby Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Sorry to hijack but would ovaling the top strut mounting holes towards the engine on both sides fix the camber? Like how many degrees is the camber out? I worked out to fix 1 degree of camber takes like 12mm of slotting if the strut is 700mm (approx) above the ground. for example: tan(angle)=opp\adj tan(1)=opp\700 700*tan(1)=opp opp=12.21mm Is that correct? Then Once you have em sloted you take it to a suspension shop to get it sorted on the puter. Or would the spring rub on the inside of the wheel wells if you moved it that far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I'm in the same boat............. It has been suggested (Miles Fox) that the tops have to move in 7mm for every inch of lift to maintain stock camber. I did a "finger test", and found that there is about 1 finger width between the spring and the strut tower, in the stock location, so it would appear that moving the struts inward has its limits. What is left to do is lengthen the lower control arms. The limit to that has been suggested to be an inch (before you run out of drive axle). Either way, the work required is more than the benefit (I'm leaning towards lengthening my lower control arms). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Sorry to hijack but would ovaling the top strut mounting holes towards the engine on both sides fix the camber? Like how many degrees is the camber out? Normally no more then 2 degrees. On my car something was bent (wasn't the control arm, radius rod or engine crossmember so it must of been the car) and one wheel was like 3 degrees while the other was < 1 degree. Without lift blocks (i.e. standard height stock car) I reckon you could get 12mm out of the top strut mounts.. Any more and I bet the spring would rub the tower. I don't really know it all calebz, I just through what I know out there for others to add to. If there is a lower combination, then awesome, that would be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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