daeron Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 OK,Tried it last night with the test connectors hooked up, still no idle. tried adjusting the idle speed screw, still no idle. Found a vacuum leak in the line to the brake booster, also seems that the check valve in that line is bad because the brake pedal 'floats' with the RPM of the engine (more gas, the pedal moves away from the floor) This does not sound like a bad check valve to me.... Do you have a vacuum line diagram under the hood of the car? It sounds like somehow things arent set up right, and its possible that certain vacuum sources aren't going to the right places.. this could be keeping your wastegate from actuating properly, among other things. This floating pedal puzzles me... I really cant help much, but I re read this whole thread and thought I might throw this out there. While I am at it, I will say with a painfully self conscious grimace on my face.. Change your spark plugs. NGK BPR 6ES-11, or if you have a preferred number then by all means use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 Thanks guys The original MAF was causing the ECU to throw the 33 code, replaced it and the code went away. (the '88 MAF is the hot wire style so there's no flapper to open or close) The turbo appears to be OK, it spins and if I rev the engine a bit with the turbo-throttle body piece removed I can hear the turbo spooling as well as feel the output from the turbo. I removed the oil check tube last night while I was wrestling with the timing belt covers, I'll double check that when I re-install. I'm going to check the distributor again tonight, I just popped the cap off last night to check if the rotor was in place properly. Could be that it is 180 deg out but the engine runs fine at higher RPM so I don't think that's the problem. I know the check valve in the brake booster line is bad, when I pulled that hose off and discovered the cracked end, the spring and ball came out of the tube also, can't get it to go back together right so I'm going to have to get a new check valve. I'm down to picking at obvious things now (probably where I shoulda started) going to check that all the spark plugs are seated, also going to run a coat hanger through the turbo-throttle body piece to make sure there's not a rag or something stupid stuck in there although there doesn't seem to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 just to rule out any possibility of a problem, block off the vacuum line going to the brake booster until you get your engine running right. Vacuum diagram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 not sure about a vac diagram... I'm at work right now and the car is 30 miles away... I do have vac diagrams from Alldata and my *spit* chilton's manuals though so I'll go over them also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 try spraying WD40 all around the connectors or anywhere a vac leak could be possible...also completely unscrew and remove the idle screw and clean it and also the manifold it fits into...for me this was the biggest improvement for idle control and I had to re=seal my dip stick with a new "O" ring and a non-turbo dip stick will not work for proper sealing..(just in case someone exchanged the dip stick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85T-REX Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Going back to the fact that the idle is so drastically affected by taking the Turbo pipe off, there seems to be a restriction in air flow. Did you check your air filter? If the PCV valve fails, it will soak the air filter with oil and clog it up. That will lead to the MAF failure and restricted air flow. rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85T-REX Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 You should reply to this post if you have updates. If you checked the air filter and the intake lines, and they're good, it's probably just the fact that the ECU is reading full air flow. Either the MAF is not sending the right signal or the ECU is not reading the signal right. Does it make any difference if you unplug the electrical connection from the MAF? rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted August 24, 2007 Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 My reply in the other post was to try and give him some pointers on things to check... I've been working a lot of overtime this week so I haven't had a chance to tinker with the GL-10T, hopefully I'll be able to wrench on it a bit this weekend, I'll check the MAF again (it tested OK a week or so ago) but it could well be the ECU... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted August 26, 2007 Author Share Posted August 26, 2007 vac lines all check out OK... Cam timing is correct, haven't got my hands on a timing light to check ignition timing, noticed that whenever I stop cranking there's a lot of air bubbling into the coolant overflow tank. Boost light still will not function... I'll try and shoot a video of it tomorrow, maybe the actual sounds will help a bit! Also, discovered that it runs exactly the same whether or not #1 plug wire is connected... I'm thinking it may be a bad injector, the #1 plug isn't fuel drenched... Bout to the point of wishing I hadn't bought this thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyrysc Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 vac lines all check out OK... Cam timing is correct, haven't got my hands on a timing light to check ignition timing, noticed that whenever I stop cranking there's a lot of air bubbling into the coolant overflow tank. Boost light still will not function... I'll try and shoot a video of it tomorrow, maybe the actual sounds will help a bit! Also, discovered that it runs exactly the same whether or not #1 plug wire is connected...Bout to the point of wishing I hadn't bought this thing! I agree...sell it to me (of course for a discount - lol) and I will let you quit worrying about it and start fixing your future brat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 air bubbling into the radiator overflow?????? Check to make sure the radiator cap is on tightly; bubbles like this normally indicate either a failure of the rad cap to hold adequate system pressure, or a headgasket failure, leading to the introduction of cylinder compression into the cooling system (and thereby over pressurising it and causing it to bubble the air into the overflow.) I didn't go back and re read your whole thread, so I am not 100% certain what problems you are still having versus the ones you have resolved (for instance, I don't see how a marginally bad headgasket would prevent the boost light from coming on?) but I would run a compression check on the engine; remember, pull spark plugs, pull fuel pump fuse, install checker in one plughole at a time, floor the gas pedal while you crank the car, and get three readings from each cylinder to get a good "average." Having one or two cylinders that vary more than ~10% from the others is enough to cause a rough run condition. Actual numbers can range from 100 to higher, and possibly a bit lower than that, and still provide you with a good running engine; the key to a compression check is testing the cylinders against each other to ensure that they are all about the same. Good luck; I hope and pray that my entire post here was pointless and needless, and there is NOTHING wrong with your headgaskets. Hopefully you just have a slightly loose rad cap. Something about that comment alarms me, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Going back to the fact that the idle is so drastically affected by taking the Turbo pipe off, there seems to be a restriction in air flow. Did you check your air filter? If the PCV valve fails, it will soak the air filter with oil and clog it up. That will lead to the MAF failure and restricted air flow. rex Taking the turbo pipe off makes the engine do weird stuff because it is not supossed to run like that. The Turbo is still being exhaust driven and pulling air through the MAF. But that air is not going into the engine, the engine is running off of a different amount of air. I would disregard that method and it's aparent data as flawed. You have a vacuum leak somewhere, and it becomes a boost leak under presuure, so that is why you get no turbo light. Hook up you're vacuum lines properly, time it, and then set the idle. Trial and error diagnosis is getting you nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted August 26, 2007 Author Share Posted August 26, 2007 it becomes a boost leak under presuure, so that is why you get no turbo light. Hook up you're vacuum lines properly, time it, and then set the idle. Trial and error diagnosis is getting you nowhere. I've checked the vac lines, they ARE hooked up correctly per the sticker under the hood. I'm not ruling out a vac leak, I certainly think there is one somewhere but I've got things plumbed per the diagram I'm not trial and erroring here, I'm systematically working through all the options I know of until I find which one corrects the problem. I pulled the connectors to the fuel injectors and cleaned them off today, they had a bit of oxidation on the connectors. I now have a moderate idle with occasional misfire, but I'm still not 100% convinced that the ignition timing is right. I'm also supecting a head gasket because of the bubbling in the overflow tank. The rad cap is on tightly so I know it's not that. I'll be getting a comp tester on Monday as well as a timing light, I've been busy with work so I haven't had a chance to buy them yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85T-REX Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Originally Posted by GloyaleTaking the turbo pipe off makes the engine do weird stuff because it is not supossed to run like that. The Turbo is still being exhaust driven and pulling air through the MAF. But that air is not going into the engine, the engine is running off of a different amount of air. I would disregard that method and it's aparent data as flawed. You have a vacuum leak somewhere, and it becomes a boost leak under presuure, so that is why you get no turbo light. Hook up you're vacuum lines properly, time it, and then set the idle. Trial and error diagnosis is getting you nowhere. I'm not sure what method or data you're referring to. I only asked if he checked his air filter and whether the idle was affected by unplugging his MAF. Two things that will tell him a lot about what is going on and are very easy to do. Removing the turbo pipe and putting it back on will not open or close a vacuum leak like you're referring to. The turbo barely spins, if at all, during idle. Cobcob, the pressure switch for the turbo light is mounted on the passenger side strut tower between it and the air cleaner box. Check my photos. On my car, the top one is the one that turns the turbo light on. As long as the vac lines are hooked up, take the electrical connection apart and jump it to see if your light comes on. If not try the other one. At least we will know if the light and switch are working properly. It sounds like you're on the right track with your injector connections. The bubbling in the overflow is not a good sign. As clean as your engine looks, I sure hope it isn't a head or head gasket issue. rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 The rad cap is on tightly so I know it's not that. Not necessarily; a radiator cap CAN go bad and open before the prescribed temp is reached... but things don't bode too well. I don't like the concept of "cleaning the injector plugs;" they are so incredibly readily available with a pair of diagonal cutters at the junkyard it isnt funny. Look around; if you can find a MPFI soob or a datsun Z car i can guarantee (off the top of my head) its the same kind of plug, and I know there are dozens of other makes and models that use the same. Try to find one of the "known matching" cars to snip a plug off of, and with that plug in hand, look under every hood you see that has nice injector wires on it. Pull one off, check the fit, and if its the same find four good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted August 27, 2007 Author Share Posted August 27, 2007 Thanks Daeron, I'll grab a new rad cap next time I stop at the auto parts store... I hear what you're saying about the availability of the injector plugs, my garage time is kinda limited due to a 4 month old baby in the house so I'm trying to juggle this vehicle repairs, work and helping the wife out... Truth be told I'm itching to get to a junkyard but haven't yet had the opportunity to! 85T-REX: I'm gong to grab a new air filter in the next few days, the one that is in there is fairly grubby, but there's no big patch of oil on it at all. I unplugged the MAF yesterday and the vehicle won't even start without it plugged in, it'll crank and kick once but nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Thanks Daeron,I'll grab a new rad cap next time I stop at the auto parts store... I hear what you're saying about the availability of the injector plugs, my garage time is kinda limited due to a 4 month old baby in the house so I'm trying to juggle this vehicle repairs, work and helping the wife out... Truth be told I'm itching to get to a junkyard but haven't yet had the opportunity to! 'nuff said. I know how it feels to be kept from the wrench, except its my wallet holding me back.. I am so starving for money that I shouldn't even have internet access, but the web is about my sole source of entertainment and diversion when I am not working or doing something else useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I'm not sure what method or data you're referring to. I only asked if he checked his air filter and whether the idle was affected by unplugging his MAF. Two things that will tell him a lot about what is going on and are very easy to do. Removing the turbo pipe and putting it back on will not open or close a vacuum leak like you're referring to. The turbo barely spins, if at all, during idle. If the turbo didn't spin, no air would pass through the MAF, and the Car would not run. The turbo is always spinning. If not, barely any air could pass though it. The specs from Subaru say the Turbo is spinning at about 20,000 rpms at idle, to 120,000rpms + under load Removing the turbo pipe is not a good way to test squat. For the third time this ends up with the car pulling X amount of air through the MAF, but actually running off of a completely different Yamount of air. Also since the AAV is supplied though that tube, you either end up with it open(huge Vac leak) or plugged(no ability to function to control idle). When I mentioned Vaccuum leaks, I was not nessecarilly saying the leak was connected with the removed pipe. I was just saying it seems like a Vac leak is where his problem lies. To test the boost sensor and light, simply pull the tube off and blow into it while someone inside the car watches the light(make sure the key is on) It only takes 1 psi pressure to trip the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85T-REX Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Originally Posted by cobcob85T-REX: I'm gong to grab a new air filter in the next few days, the one that is in there is fairly grubby, but there's no big patch of oil on it at all. I unplugged the MAF yesterday and the vehicle won't even start without it plugged in, it'll crank and kick once but nothing more. It looks like your MAF is working properly. The new air filter should help. Did you get some time to wrench over the weekend? rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 unfortunately I haven't had a chance to swing a wrench on the GL-10... alternator is shot on the wifes car and I had to haul the mother in law 200 miles to the closest Amtrak station so she could get home... Hopefully things will quiet down here in a day or so and I'll be able to get some alone time with my wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 I managed to score a little time with the wagon the other day when my wife wasn't looking... not too long, just enough to check and confirm that the vac switch connected to the turbo light is still good. I also fired it up with the garage door shut (haven't done that before, always have the door open) and she's running so rich that a very short time running the engine made my eyes water for about a minute! Starting to suspect maybe the ECU is jacked up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85T-REX Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 So the switch and light work, right? How does the engine respond when you drive it? Does it work okay at full throttle? Does it smoke? I don't remember seeing anything about how it drives on this thread so I thought I would ask. Also, were you able to do the compression check? rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 I haven't driven it much yet, down the road and back but due to it not wanting to idle and I live on a bad dirt road I'm not really able to do a road test too easily, it dies if I try to let it idle down the road. It does run OK at increased RPMs, not smoking at all though... It WAS smoking before I replaced the MAF sensor. I've been advised to check the fuel pressure regulator as well as seeing if one of the injectors might be sticking open... I haven't had a chance to get a compression tester just yet, they'd sold out at Harbor Freight when I was there the other day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85T-REX Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 It might be a good idea to try a bottle of STP injector cleaner and run the snot out of it for 50 miles or more. That stuff works really well. It should free a stuck injector. rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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