cheap AC fix

[loyalewithcheese]

my loyale's AC is barely pushing out cool air these days. i've seen cans of refrigerant at kragen, and i was wondering if anyone has used these? which one should i get? will it help? how do you use them?

 

i'm not looking for a full fix, or long term fix. the car only needs to last me a few more months, so it's not worth the investment to do it right, but it would be nice on hot days since my 3yo hates open windows.

[TheLoyale]

I don't think you can get the right kind at a Autozone, kragen, Or Checker. I think you can still get the right stuff from JC witny tho. I know the kind we need is illeagle! And they may not ship it to some states! I've been told i would have to take it to a shop that does that!

 

IDK i hope someone else replys to this thread so i can know too! I would like to recharge it tho. Like make it the way it should be.

 

 

Wish i could help!

[mikeshoup]

You'll need to have a shop evacuate and pull a vacuum on the A/C system. Then you can retrofit it to R-134a and recharge it with that.

 

R-12 (which is what all these older soobs use) is illegal to manufacture and can only be handled by licensed professionals. So, its not worth it.

[TheLoyale]

Is it hard to retrofit it to R-134a? And can i do it?

[TheLoyale]

Maybe i don't really need air! I've got windows right! And they all work. So i guess it's no biggie:)

[loyalewithcheese]

You'll need to have a shop evacuate and pull a vacuum on the A/C system. Then you can retrofit it to R-134a and recharge it with that.

 

R-12 (which is what all these older soobs use) is illegal to manufacture and can only be handled by licensed professionals. So, its not worth it.

 

ahhhhh yes, as i suspected. thanks!

[psylosyfer]

I've seen conversion kits for 134a at schucks for 30 some dollars, Anyone tried these?

[rllywgn]

Be warned that attempting to repair your own A/C system can be hazardous to your health, the enviroment, and your car. repairs including evacuation and charging should be done with proper equipment and Industrial chemical handling knowledge.

 

Attempting to repair your a/c system correctly requires hvac specific tools if you do not have said tools i would not recommend that you attempt to do it yourself.

 

That being said.. epa section 609 m-hvac certification is an open book test which can be taken online for around 20 bucks. this certificate will allow you to buy r12 in containers under 20 pounds for personal use or resale.

 

 

But i strongly recommend that you take it to a professional.. epa has a nifty $10k fine for those that vent refrigerant to the atmosphere other than diminumuss release. It is also illegal to knowingly charge a system that has a leak.

 

if you do choose to do it yourself please have a manifold gauge set, t/p chart, vacuum pump, and a 100% understanding of your vehicles a/c system and its operation. not to mention the necessary refrigerant and oil required for proper operation.

 

 

This is information that can be handy for the mechanically adept, if you are unsure.. once again please do not try..

 

 

if anyone chooses to repair there a/c system please do it correctly, there is no such thing as a partial or temporary repair..

 

 

rllywgn

hvac professional

[TheLoyale]

Wow! You know your stuff:eek: That's cool, The more i read your post i don't want to do it my self. But would a professional know what he's doing? Is a Subaru A/C system difrent then any other? Like i wouldent want anyone to damage my car!

[The Dude Abides]

well i dont know about all of that. I had a 88volvo turbo station wagon once. The shop i bought it off of said if there was any problems bring it back. 2 days latter i broght it back and said hey the air doesnt work what can ya do. All the guy did was bust out a can of r-12 screw it onto the cap and let it run. Had me turn on the air until it blew cold. After that i had air conditioning. Now that i think about it that was a pretty awsome car. Power everything moon roof alloy wheels only paid like 300 bucks for it. Had electrical problems from hell though. was fun in the winter

 

Ben

[rllywgn]

I'm not saying that adding refrigerant won't make your a/c blow cold.. but it really is a temporary fix.. if you have too add refrigerant you have a problem.. refrigerant in a sealed system will not break down or go anywhere.. I'm just trying to encourage people to fix the system, some leaks will take years to lose a charge and some will drop a charge over night..

[TheLoyale]

Well the only leak i have is one of the valves that you recharge it, when you take the brown cap off some bubbley brown stuff come's out? So i think if i ever diside to fix it, I'll take it to a pro shop.

[ellets]

For those who want to know, here is how I change a subaru to r-134.

First evacuate system. If there is no freon you can use venturi type vacuum pump from harbor freight. If there is you are gointo have to take it to a shop.

Next replace acumulater round canister with sight glass on top. You must change this. With 21 or so inches of vacuum add a can of pag oil or other oil for r134. Now you need freon and some way to add it. One of those kits from wallmart might work but you really need a manifold set for r134. 50. dollars or so from harbor freight. You are going to need about 1/2 as much as was with r-12. I just did my 88gl and it has very cold air.

 

Make a search (google) for autofrost. They make a replacement for r-12 that claim is a direct dropin replacement.

 

I am licensed. found a site with a study guide and an open book test. Ithink it cost$10.00

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Well... about the Freon R-12, I just wanna say that here, in my country is not illegal, so I have no problems with that. Why it became illegal in the USA? ... I know that the R-134-A is the "New Age" of cars` Gas for A/C... but I have something else to ask about:

 

Here in the Tropics, We got usually very hot climate, with Sunny / Rainy weather (Just Deceber, January & February are cool Climates) and I noticed that the A/C System of my EA82 isn`t blowing the air too cool, even if it is double checked (By two diffrerent proffesionals, at a two different A/C repair shops) and Everything is Working Fine!

 

I even changed from any Relay involved (now are Bosch Standard) to the Blower fan, cleaned the condensator, etc... but it still doesn`t cool too much, so I use it just to Defrost the Windshield during rains. (it is the main purpose why I repair and maintain it, to be in very nice conditions, here rains Too Much) But comparing its Performance to other cars, its Coolness is too poor.

 

So, Do you think that Using a R-134-A Retrofit Kit on my Subie, will improve its Performance?

 

Thanx!

[psylosyfer]

Well... about the Freon R-12, I just wanna say that here, in my country is not illegal, so I have no problems with that. Why it became illegal in the USA? ... I know that the R-134-A is the "New Age" of cars` Gas for A/C... but I have something else to ask about:

 

Here in the Tropics, We got usually very hot climate, with Sunny / Rainy weather (Just Deceber, January & February are cool Climates) and I noticed that the A/C System of my EA82 isn`t blowing the air too cool, even if it is double checked (By two diffrerent proffesionals, at a two different A/C repair shops) and Everything is Working Fine!

 

I even changed from any Relay involved (now are Bosch Standard) to the Blower fan, cleaned the condensator, etc... but it still doesn`t cool too much, so I use it just to Defrost the Windshield during rains. (it is the main purpose why I repair and maintain it, to be in very nice conditions, here rains Too Much) But comparing its Performance to other cars, its Coolness is too poor.

 

So, Do you think that Using a R-134-A Retrofit Kit on my Subie, will improve its Performance?

 

Thanx!

I have heard that r134 is less effective than r12, r12 was outlawed because of environmental reasons (it harms the ozone)

[TheLoyale]

Originally Posted by psylosyfer, R12 was outlawed because of environmental reasons (it harms the ozone)

 

Doesnt everything! :lol: The Ozone is so far go anyway! :lol:

 

I think they should ban Commercial airlines! Look at all that jet fuel! That's what makes the sunset so orange. Look at L.A.

 

No offence to anyone who lives there:)

[rllywgn]

r134a isnt as efficient as r12.. by temperature / pressure relationship..

 

although using a larger condensor on our older subaru's can help when switching to r134a. and remember if switching you use 10 to 20% less refrigerant then the r12 factory charge.

 

several things can reduce efficiency in a vehicle that previously blew "cold air", compressor wear, dirty coils ( both evaporator and condensor), leaks, and in some cases electrical issues. restrictions usually caused from contaminates in the system can also cause poor efficiency.

 

most cars use an O ring type seal for the lines and valve seals as well as sensor ports. over time these can leak.. less refrigerant less efficiency.. also lack of oil in the system can reduce compressor efficiency.

 

just a few thoughts..

[TheLoyale]

That's some good thoughts!

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I have heard that r134 is less effective than r12, r12 was outlawed because of environmental reasons (it harms the ozone)

 

Well... Thanx for your Answer!

 

Did you noticed that when A/C is On, it robs Power from the Engine? ... I mean Too Much Power from the Engine, My Subie feels like 30Hp less... (Not like another car´s feeling).

 

is it the "Average" behavior on EA82´s?

[psylosyfer]

Well... Thanx for your Answer!

 

Did you noticed that when A/C is On, it robs Power from the Engine? ... I mean Too Much Power from the Engine, My Subie feels like 30Hp less... (Not like another car´s feeling).

 

is it the "Average" behavior on EA82´s?

I can feel my compressor but it really does not seem bad at all (highway)

in my 91 loyale, Noticeable drag, Maybe another 1/2 inch of throttle doing 70mph.

[dhise]

I can feel my compressor but it really does not seem bad at all (highway)

in my 91 loyale, Noticeable drag, Maybe another 1/2 inch of throttle doing 70mph.

 

total dog with the air on here, but it's worth it! I just don't like it when people pass me up when I take off too slow for them and then I have to pass them again a 1/2 mile down the road when they get in my way....

[TheLoyale]

+1:grin:

[RONAN]

Well... Thanx for your Answer!

 

Did you noticed that when A/C is On, it robs Power from the Engine? ... I mean Too Much Power from the Engine, My Subie feels like 30Hp less... (Not like another car´s feeling).

 

is it the "Average" behavior on EA82´s?

 

I thought something was wrong with my 87 when I bought it new. I had to climb a few 5% grades from a stop and could never get out of 2nd gear with the A/C on. I took it back to the dealership and they told me that the wagons had a factory overkill A/C system installed. They said it drawed aproximately 25hp from the motor and that was my introduction to EA82 Scoobs being underpowered. 90-25=65hp:eek: The service rep also showed me a memo from Subaru about the A/C systems under max cooling for extended trips, predominately out west in hotter temps, could cause some type of (don`t remember the technical term) pneumonia.

 

There for awhile, R12 was one of the biggest black market smuggling going on at the U.S/Mex border. People were still getting cans for roughly $1 and selling for $10. Check out EBAY and you will find that R12 is selling for as cheap as 134 now.

[mykingcrab]

here is some great info,and if you want to go all out and do it with the right (cheap tools), harbor freight sells a vac pump for 9.00/guages for 40.00.

scroll down for the pump.[/url]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=446&pricetype=

 

 

 

this site will explane what you need to know.

http://members.tripod.com/~jbabs714/autoac.htm:cool:

 

i recomend reading all of it. everyone could do this WITH KNOWLEGE AND SAFETY employed.