'02 Forester: wife wants to dump it

[Hodaka Rider]

So, we've had it a little more than a year now. We traded my wife's '04 Liberty for it, hoping to save some money on gas - which we have. However, we keep having to spend money on other stuff:

Alternator: $300+, a few months after we got the car

Knock sensor: A little under $100, again within 6 months or so of purchase.

Alternator: Yeah, another one. A little over a year after the first. This one had the added joy of a night's stay in a hotel while waiting for parts.

Exhaust: rattles abound, and I've recently replaced the flex coupler doughnut and nuts/bolts.

 

More:

the TSB for clutch issues (pedal travel when hot) is nagging at me: I've had this problem several times.

I'm about 90% sure I need a front O2 sensor. Drivability is weird, I get pinging when I shouldn't, etc. No codes, though.

 

 

She has been looking longingly at the new Wrangler Rubicon 4dr. I see her side, because who would think that a car with a little more than 100,000KM (60,000miles) would have this much maintenace? Her Liberty (which did not have as many KM's) had nothing more than oil changes for maintenance costs!! What can I do? She is starting to hate this car.

[stevetone]

So, we've had it a little more than a year now. We traded my wife's '04 Liberty for it, hoping to save some money on gas - which we have. However, we keep having to spend money on other stuff:

Alternator: $300+, a few months after we got the car

Knock sensor: A little under $100, again within 6 months or so of purchase.

Alternator: Yeah, another one. A little over a year after the first. This one had the added joy of a night's stay in a hotel while waiting for parts.

Exhaust: rattles abound, and I've recently replaced the flex coupler doughnut and nuts/bolts.

 

More:

the TSB for clutch issues (pedal travel when hot) is nagging at me: I've had this problem several times.

I'm about 90% sure I need a front O2 sensor. Drivability is weird, I get pinging when I shouldn't, etc. No codes, though.

 

 

She has been looking longingly at the new Wrangler Rubicon 4dr. I see her side, because who would think that a car with a little more than 100,000KM (60,000miles) would have this much maintenace? Her Liberty (which did not have as many KM's) had nothing more than oil changes for maintenance costs!! What can I do? She is starting to hate this car.

I tell my clients that the cheapest car to own is almost always the one you currently have. Even if you spent a grand or two (gulp) on repairs, (and had a superb-running vehicle as a result, I may add) you would still be way ahead of a new car purchase. Depreciation alone, and loan interest to boot, will quickly exceed that grand that you put into the "old" vehicle.

 

If you're thinking of purchasing a used car, how certain can you be that it was well-taken care of and the maintenance will be less? I'd rather go with "the devil I know" that the one I don't.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Steve

[nipper]

I am going through the altenator thing with Blu. Seems that there are some marginal altenators out there, so thats why I am buying the next one from subaru (and waiting for it now).

 

I too lust after the evil empire, its a sweet looking car. But remeber Jeep comes up rather poorly in the reliabilty ratings, and it wont save you any gas.

 

nipper

[eryque]

My experience with cars has always been that once a bunch of things start to go wrong, more and more things will start to go wrong too. Sometimes you just get a bad one, and sucking on a lemon like that is pretty awful.

 

If I were you, I'd seriously consider selling it as well. I would never buy a Chrysler product, though.

[montana105]

Jeeps are not maintenance free,I own one,and it is definitely more involved then just changing oil and filters even though i don't use mine for much more then highway pulling the boat and around town.i am at 170000 miles and on my second tranny(besides the original) and first transfer case(it's a 96 Grand Cherokee).Throwing a fuel pump or sensor to it is a walk in the park cost wise and for my comfort on the road compared to my Subie,in other words I gladly spend the money because I enjoy and my back really appreciates the comfort of the Jeep on long trips.Having worked at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership as a tech I can't say much about the Liberty,but when I worked there the Liberty was fairly new and the rail diesel was something to avoid in a mechanics wallet sense.The way people treat their cars these days really suggests buyer beware if buying used,but it is also buyer beware with any new car if the kinks haven't been worked out,the 300 M was a powerful and nice car but there were quirks I won't discuss by now those who own them know what they were,but I would buy a used one with average mileage that looked presentable.

[vic/se]

So, we've had it a little more than a year now. We traded my wife's '04 Liberty for it, hoping to save some money on gas - which we have. However, we keep having to spend money on other stuff:

Alternator: $300+, a few months after we got the car

Knock sensor: A little under $100, again within 6 months or so of purchase.

Alternator: Yeah, another one. A little over a year after the first. This one had the added joy of a night's stay in a hotel while waiting for parts.

Exhaust: rattles abound, and I've recently replaced the flex coupler doughnut and nuts/bolts.

 

More:

the TSB for clutch issues (pedal travel when hot) is nagging at me: I've had this problem several times.

I'm about 90% sure I need a front O2 sensor. Drivability is weird, I get pinging when I shouldn't, etc. No codes, though.

 

 

She has been looking longingly at the new Wrangler Rubicon 4dr. I see her side, because who would think that a car with a little more than 100,000KM (60,000miles) would have this much maintenace? Her Liberty (which did not have as many KM's) had nothing more than oil changes for maintenance costs!! What can I do? She is starting to hate this car.

 

125 000 km on mine and just change oil, may I sugest You go somewhere else for repairs?

[Reveeen]

I *think* you have to decide if you are on the new car treadmill, or off the new car treadmill, you can't have it both ways.

 

If you are on, you buy a new car, trading it for another every 3 years, doing minimal maintenance and having a warranty. At the end of 3 years, with some luck, you owe what it is worth, can trade it for a "fresh one", and carry on your own little merry way making monthly payments.

 

If you are off, you buy what you can afford, though if you dodge that 3 year old trade-in, chances are you are buying, well, I won't say a bad one, but you are buying a car that the best has gone out of it, and you WILL be repairing it.

 

I have been off the new car treadmill for a lot of years, and know that spending $1000 in repairs is NOTHING (compared to a $400 a month payment, which by the way, is 2 1/2 X $400).

 

Maybe you simply bought the wrong car? (or didn't put enough cash into the deal, so that with your current payments you can afford repairs, notice I do not fault the car: reality check, it's 5 going on 6 years old, of course there is going to be repairs).

[montana105]

As mentioned in my previous post,car owners today do not take care of their cars.Sure they change the oil,but they do not maintain their cars. As VIC/Se mentions-60000 miles and all that's been done is oil changes.Would you want to buy his car when it hasn't had any antifreeze flushes/changes-tranny fluid flushed or changed,tires rotated at the least? How about a reputable shop checking axles,joints and brakes? I don't call that maintenance and it's impossible to determine from used car owners who believe they've maintained their cars because they will lie about it and except for extreme cases you can't prove it.Can you tell I've been burned before? Remember people,you buy a used car you can't blame most malfunctions on the US manufacturer,it's on the previous owner,of course the courts don't recognize this. By the way my dad has the new 4 door rubicon,only 3000 miles and so far he loves it.Maybe the domestic's should provide more indept upkeep intervals to the unknowing but it isn't required and that leaves it up to the mannie to decide if the car was kept up,don't you cringe when in the service bay and the writer asks when you had your last flush or when you take it in for a no start and get stuck with a 150.00 bill for a new battery,when you could've replaced the battery yourself for 90.00(great battery) plus two wrenches.the only point I'm trying to make is that most vehicle owners don't actually maintain their vehicles,they do the minimum,and you the buyer deal with it later as i'm sure the original poster dealt with with his Liberty.

[schlit]

So, we've had it a little more than a year now. We traded my wife's '04 Liberty for it, hoping to save some money on gas - which we have. However, we keep having to spend money on other stuff:

Alternator: $300+, a few months after we got the car

Knock sensor: A little under $100, again within 6 months or so of purchase.

Alternator: Yeah, another one. A little over a year after the first. This one had the added joy of a night's stay in a hotel while waiting for parts.

Exhaust: rattles abound, and I've recently replaced the flex coupler doughnut and nuts/bolts.

 

More:

the TSB for clutch issues (pedal travel when hot) is nagging at me: I've had this problem several times.

I'm about 90% sure I need a front O2 sensor. Drivability is weird, I get pinging when I shouldn't, etc. No codes, though.

 

 

She has been looking longingly at the new Wrangler Rubicon 4dr. I see her side, because who would think that a car with a little more than 100,000KM (60,000miles) would have this much maintenace? Her Liberty (which did not have as many KM's) had nothing more than oil changes for maintenance costs!! What can I do? She is starting to hate this car.

 

I have an 02 Forester. It sucks, it constantly has problems, and more on the horizon, and initally cost more. Cat converter just took a crap on me, and the headgasket is weeping away (common on the 02) and probably about to blow....only 80,000mi on it. This is the first car I've ever owned that requires new OEM CV boots every other year. AWD seems more of a maintenece issue than anything. I dont really rely on it, and therefore dont feel like buying anything else because it'd end up costing more.

 

If your wife is driving it around and you dont want her stranded, trade it up. What you trade it for really depends on how many miles you drive and what sort of cars you can tolerate. I've owned hondas for 20 years and never had the issues that this piece o crap has.

[Hodaka Rider]

125 000 km on mine and just change oil, may I sugest You go somewhere else for repairs?

 

You're funny. What makes you think that all of these things have anything to do with where it is repaired? Besides, most of the repairs are done by me, right here at home. Maybe I just imagined that the alternator was dead? Or that the check engine light was on, giving me a knock sensor code? Oh yeah, and the rattling heat shields are because I do my own oil changes.

 

I've owned hondas for 20 years and never had the issues that this piece o crap has.

 

Yeah, and I've driven and worked on enough Hondas to know I don't want one. Plus, working in the Parts/Service dept. of a Honda dealership for about a year and a half showed me that they have not earned their "Super-reliable car" record in my opinion.

[Blue Whale]

Subarus are generally pretty reliable, and have been for a long time; I know this from personal experience as much as from Consumer reports. There is an element of luck with these things, and then for used cars there's a history that may or may not be known. The two Subarus that I bought new, a '93 and a '95, have had minimal repair issues. Each did eventually need the alternator replaced, but after a its more miles and years than yours. The '95 has needed a starter, a knock sensor, and a coolant temperature sensor; the '93 needed a power steering pump and an AC compressor. Front outer CV boots needed replacement at about 100,000 miles; of course I did the inner ones at the same time. None of these issues was expensive, except for the AC compressor (new, from the dealer); on the other hand, I did all of the labor myself--such as it was. The '93 needed nothing at all except for routine maintenance before 100,000 miles.

 

Three months ago, I bought a '96 Outback to replace the '93 Legacy wagon; the latter, at 155.000 miles, was in a minor collision that made it a total loss for insurance purposes. This Outback, which I call the Blue Whale, was very expensive to the previous owner: head gaskets, catalytic converter, O2 sensors, coil and wires, thermostat and coolant hoses, and many other things replaced--all at fairly high prices, and all within about two and a half years. As for me--I got it after the money was spent, and with recent tires, battery, fluids, and even wiper blades. At 156,000 miles, everything works well, and the price was very good. I anticipate minimal problems over the next several years, and no car payments.

 

Your Forester probably won't be troublesome forever; it may go for years at a time without needing any repairs, possibly with a new owner who will then have the benefit of the fixes you've made. In the average case, a Jeep is going to need more attention that a Subaru, so it isn't a good trade to make on that basis. It could make sense for other reasons, primarily better off-road capability. In any case, I hope your car difficulties are coming to a close.

[Jimmyowensfan20]

Maybe you should make an off roader out of it and get your wife something older and cheaper and say here you go. Then you get a new toy and she's happy too.Then when it's done she'll want the Subaru back so it's a win win. You get to keep it and have a spare in the future.

[srs_49]

I've been happy with my wife's '02 OBW, H6 engine. It's got around 96,000 miles on it. On it's 3rd set of front rotors; had to replace the master cylinder; and I think I killed the cat when I crossed wires after changing plugs, but that was my fault, not the car's. Other than that, no tranny or other drivetrain problem; no head gasket leaks, and exhaust is still solid (except for the cat, maybe).

 

On the topic of used cars, I bought a couple for my kids to drive and have had good luck with them. Bought a '94 Merc Tracer with 125,000 miles and both my sons drove it 'til a rock through the back window totaled the car. This was when it had over 180,000 miles on it. It needed a clutch inside of a year, lost a timing belt (non-interferring design, so no engine damage), but, considering I only paid $2500 for it, it was still a good deal overall.

 

Same with an '87 BMW. Bought it back in 1999 (I think) for $2500, and it too had around 125,000 miles on it. Am still driving it today, with over 184,000 miles on it. I've put maybe $3000 in repairs in it over the course of 8 years, but that's still peanuts compared to a new car purchase.

 

On a per mile basis, the most expensive car I've owned so far has been the '02 OBW, mainly because it was purchased new ($30K or ther 'bouts) and the depreciation on a new car really hurts the TCO (total cost of ownership) number. I expect the TCO number to come down as I get more miles on the car.

 

In general, I feel that you can put a lot of money into repairs and still come out ahead verses buying a new vehicle.

[schlit]

Yeah, and I've driven and worked on enough Hondas to know I don't want one. Plus, working in the Parts/Service dept. of a Honda dealership for about a year and a half showed me that they have not earned their "Super-reliable car" record in my opinion.

 

I guess you'd have to have worked in a ford, chevy, or Jeep parts department to make that comparison.

 

Maybe we're just unlucky the first subaru we've owned has had so many problems.

[Virrdog]

My experience with cars has always been that once a bunch of things start to go wrong, more and more things will start to go wrong too. Sometimes you just get a bad one, and sucking on a lemon like that is pretty awful.

 

If I were you, I'd seriously consider selling it as well. I would never buy a Chrysler product, though.

I have to disagree. If things are stayed on top of and fixed right, then the car treats you well. When buying a used car, you usually have to catch up on all of the maintenance that the previous owner did not do. Get that stuff squared away and the car should be ready to roll for a while. There are of course notable exceptions, like rust and when the car keeps munching completely good parts over and over again.

 

I tried keeping the 98 Jetta my wife had when we were married. It would not cooperate, so it went.

 

Another side point: if you like the car you will put up with MUCH more than if you do not like the car. If you like it every problem is "not that bad".

[JT95]

Another side point: if you like the car you will put up with MUCH more than if you do not like the car. If you like it every problem is "not that bad".

 

 

How true...

 

 

And, of course, if you don't like the car, you're ready to have it crushed when the dome light goes out.

 

 

My 95 Legacy wagon is about to flip 220,000. Has been cheap to drive the past three years (when I got it), but now things are coming at me at once--CV shafts, struts, ignition key and the switch aren't friends anymore--but I've enjoyed the car and plan to keep it going.

 

As far as alternators go--I've had ZERO luck with alternators from chain parts stores. Get the real deal--saves many headaches later.

[eryque]

I have to disagree. If things are stayed on top of and fixed right, then the car treats you well. When buying a used car, you usually have to catch up on all of the maintenance that the previous owner did not do. Get that stuff squared away and the car should be ready to roll for a while. There are of course notable exceptions, like rust and when the car keeps munching completely good parts over and over again.

 

 

You can disagree all you want, but that hasn't been my experience :-) There is a limit to the number of things that can go wrong, but with the number of components on a car that number can get pretty dang big.

 

While logically it makes sense that you just need to fix the problems that are there, I've had cars that just would not stop breaking. Some of it was neglected maintenance, some of it was normal wear and tear, and some of it was freak stuff. Each time, all this added up to a car that wasn't worth putting any more money in to.

 

 

Another side point: if you like the car you will put up with MUCH more than if you do not like the car. If you like it every problem is "not that bad".

 

Now that I'll agree with completely.

[Reveeen]

I've had cars that just would not stop breaking.

 

I gotta laugh at that one. I have it figured the cheapest way to own a Dodge is to own 3+ Dodges, you pick the parts off of them as needed, and when they get looking too bad to remain in your yard, you strip it, filling your shed with the remaining parts, and send the shell away. I am almost always on the look out for $100 parts Dodges. There is not a weekend passes that "the dammed Dodge" does not eat at least 2 hours of my time.

 

And you thought a Subaru could be a *problem*?