xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Hey I got my first subaru, a 94 loyale wagon, about a week and a half ago and it has been running well. Today I was idling at a stop light and it started making a grinding noise, the check engine light came on, and then it quit. It would not start back up, it turns over and sometimes sounds like it might start but doesn't. Do you think this could be the distributor or a timing belt breaking or something else? The PO said he did the timing belts 10k mi ago. Thank you for your help. Anders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Easiest way to check is to pop off the distributor cap, note the position of the rotor, crank the car, and see if the rotor moved. If it hasn't, it's T-belt. You can take off the drivers side cover pretty easy to see what happened to the belt if that's what it is. PO's can lie about when they had maintenence done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 First of All: Welcome!!! "Grindin´ Noise" ... Those are KeyWords here... I Think you´s Subie´s Engine got Problems with one of the Timin´ Belts Pulley´s Ball Bearin´ ... I Got that Problem too, Li´l time ago, see: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75411 Maybe it can Help. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoyale Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Hey JesZek, No it's can't be just a Ball Bearing for the timing pully. Ok so he had some noise, But the car won't start. So i'd say it was a T-belt. Maybe a Distribitor. But i dout it. Hope you find out what it was! Best of luck, and Welcome to the site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 Thank you for the welcomes. I went out today and the rotor is turning when i crank it. It is also getting a spark from the coil and there is fuel in the throttle body. While searching I found a site about diagnostic codes from the ECU so maybe that will help. Thank you for your help. Anders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 ok i just did the diagnostic. With the green connectors i didn't get anything, but with the white connects (historic?) I got a code 11 and 13. These are both for the Crank Angle Sensor. Anyone know what to do with this lol? Thanks for your help. Anders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 CAS is located inside the distributor. Since you have spark I would ignore it. Engine has 2 timing belts. I would check the other one before going any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 ok the passenger timing belt seems to be tight and intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 I turned the engine until the flywheel was in line with the bellhousing mark at 0. The rotor was turned to about the cylinder 4 position. Does this tell me anything? It should be at either the cylinder 1 or 3 position correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 It sounds like the crankshaft needed to be turned once more around. The crank turns twice for each turn of the disty. You are 180 out on the disty. Since the firing order is 1-3-4-2, by moving the crank one more turn you should line up on #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 It sounds like the crankshaft needed to be turned once more around. The crank turns twice for each turn of the disty. You are 180 out on the disty. Since the firing order is 1-3-4-2, by moving the crank one more turn you should line up on #1. I thought it was 1, 3, 2, 4? -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 yea i it lines up with 1, false alarm. I got it to run for about 10 seconds but it quit again and would not start up. I checked the plugs, they are getting spark. I can hear the fuel pump prime when i turn the key to the on position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 turns out it is the drivers side timing belt, the teeth are all ripped off. Any tricks for turning the drivers side sprocket to line up the hole and slot in the cover? It seems really hard to turn compared to the passenger side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Going by what you stated in your last post it sounds like something is seriously out of place. The binding probably caused the belt teeth to strip. Maybe there is a bent valve causing this or something is wrong with the cam bearings. Not good, whatever it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 turns out it is the drivers side timing belt, the teeth are all ripped off. Any tricks for turning the drivers side sprocket to line up the hole and slot in the cover? It seems really hard to turn compared to the passenger side. If the teeth are torn off you need to replace the belt, not simply move it's positiion. I was unsure by the wording if you are doing this. Also, if the teeth sheredded, it's probably because the tensioner or idler pulley are siezed(grinding noise) This is why the belt failed after only 10k miles. I'd replace the whole set, or at minimum the seized one. If not the new belt won't last a day. No real trick to turning the drivers cam, just have to do it slowly or the valve spring tension will snap it of the mark. Make sure use the center of the 3 little lines on the crank, and you rotate the engine once between the drivers and passenger side so the cams end up with their respective marks 180 degrees, opposite (one up, one down) to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 I thought it was 1, 3, 2, 4? -Dave You are correct, good catch. Firing order for all Horizontal 4 cyl Subarus is 1-3-2-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 1, 2007 Author Share Posted September 1, 2007 No I'm definitely replacing the belt. I guess I will have to check to see if anything has seized, I'm really hoping it wasn't something catastrophic that is making the drivers side cam sprocket really hard to turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 Thanks for keeping me straight about the firing order guys. More cobwebs in the memory banks again. Let's see...where did I leave that can of air spray duster at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 no problem When my first t-belt blew (ahh, the memories), the drivers side stripped. None of the idlers where seized, so not sure why it blew. Been running ever since, with the same idlers/pulleys :0 If you don't have the fancy tool, a couple short screwdrivers through two of the four holes will help you turn the cam over. OR, just put the belt on and crank the engine to line the cam up, take the belt off, and go from there. Remember as you turn the cam it has to compress the valve springs, so it should be pretty stiff. -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 if a timing belt gets oil on it, and the oil soaks in (ie bad seal on the front of the engine) then the rubber can easily disintegrate without a seized tensioner. I say this for posterity's sake, and for the post immediately preceding this one; given the OP's "grinding" it was almost a forgone conclusion that a timing belt idler had seized, and given the CEL it was also almost a forgone conclusion that it was an erroneous CAS code indicating a driver side. However, I have been tasting my own foot too often lately, so I didn't want to say this last night, when it was still a wild guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 Not sure about your 94, but I just learned a lot of my 90 loyale: When #1 is on compression (loosen the plug quite a bit and listen for air coming out while you manually crank it) the flywheel should be at the middle of the three marks on the flywheel (may have to crank it twice-around). When on compression/middle mark, left pulley should be straight up (pulley mark aligned with belt cover mark). Turn the crank around to the middle mark again. Right cam should be pointing up (left will be pointing straiight down). Short story: Left and right cam pulleys need to be 180 degress off from each other (left pulley straight up and right pulley straight down, or vise versa) while the flywheel points to the middle belt alignment mark (NOT TDC). There is an excellent walkthrough of timing belt installaton on here that I followed. If I find it I'll put a link in this chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 2, 2007 Author Share Posted September 2, 2007 Thanks for all the help. I got everything off and ready to go but I have to order the belt for Tuesday. I will try the screwdriver thing to get it to turn over. Once everything was off I did notice some oil that seeped into the timing belt covers, so maybe the grinding noise was just the sound of the belt stripping due to being weakened from the oil. Anders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 You probably should change the crank, cam, and oil pump seals while you're in there if there's oil contaminating the belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 Rubber making a grinding noise???? Try to spin the idlers and tensioners as hard as you can with your fingers.. they should roll, roll, roll like well broken in roller skate wheels. Minimal noise. ANY play in these bearings is cause for replacement. If you can break the nut loose and press the bearings out, you can source new bearings for MUCH less than the individual tensioner or idler would cost.. its just a matter of finding a place to buy them. ALL bearings are sold based on thickness, inner diameter and outer diameter, and speed rating, so it is just a matter of "matching them up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjoffroad92 Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 I tried rolling the idler by hand and the bearing fell apart and there was only like 1 ball bearing left. So I guess I have to find a source for the bearings or pay like $50 for a new idler, does anyone have the measurements handy for the bearings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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