Pilgrim 54 Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 Trying to remove the harmonic ballencer to get the timing belt cover off!!?? Timing belt is loose and needs to be tightened up. 2005 H-4 non-turbo engine. What in the hell did they put the thing on there with a 550# pneumatic wrench!!?? What & where do we hold the engine so it don't turn over? Put it in gear with the E-brake on as tight as I dare and that did not work. Took the starter out and found a place to engage the flywheel gear then proceeded to bend a Snap-on 30" breaker bar!!!! Is it left handed threads? Anyone been here done this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 The bolt is tight but it will come loose. When you reinstall the bolt you need to use the proper torque also as it is not pretty when the crank pulley bolt loosens up later. The timing belt uses an automatic tensioner, so if the belt is 'loose' the tensioner may be weak or damaged. When you put it in gear, put it in 5th gear so as to give your wrenching on the crank the least torque at the wheels. That should hold it still. When I broke loose the crank pulley bolt on '00obw I estimate it took a good 400 ft lb to break it loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 <<Timing belt is loose and needs to be tightened up.>> your timing belt is loose on a 2005 Subaru? why do you think this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 This sounds all kinds of wrong to me - if the belt was "loose" then it would have probably broken or jumped teeth. The 2.5 is an interferance engine and that would have been the end of it. Maybe you are just not familair with what timing belt tension normally looks like? All EJ engines use an automatic hydraulic tensioner pulley and I've never even heard of one failing. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 The bolt is right handed but very tight. Some have used a breaker bar and rest it against the ground, then disable the ignition by removing the spark plug cables or pulling the fuel pump fuse, then hit the starter. The bolt breaks free. But I usually hold the flywheel with a large screwdriver and a long 1/2" breaker bar. Regarding failed tensioners. Yes they do fail. I have seen bad bearings on them. Also failed tensioners. Both the original tensioner and the newer ( 97 to current ) tensioner/pulley assy. Seems the plunger becomes stationary and no longer extends. This causes the belt to flop and the pulley to bounce. It sounds like a bad rod bearing or piston slap. Easy to determine, just remove the drivers side timing belt cover and start the car. Look down and watch the tensioner. If it bounces or the belt, then the tensioner is defective. Biggest cause I have found is a servicer, when replacing the timing belt, doesn't take their time compressing the tensioner. It calls for no more than 1000 ft/lbs and MUST be done vertically. Many may use a VISE to do this ( not correct ). A C-clamp serves better and it takes 8-10 Min's of small turns to do it correctly. Subaru also had a TBS about these for the 99-02 models. And under warranty replaced many of them. End of my $.02 and experiences ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim 54 Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 I think the belt is loose because I removed the left inspection cover and discovered I could move the belt coming from the left cam (SOHC) up and down about an inch!!!?? Can't be good. Using a starter motor to remove this bolt is an old trick I've employed in the past but was not even sure of the thread factor. Though left handed thread was a stretch I've never seen b4 I've never seen a hydrolic tensioner before on a timing belt! (Why rounded belt cogs?? Just to tempt fate??!!) So what is the proper torque for reassembly? Once again I must say your help is appreciated. Have a good day all. Pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Here's a good read for you. The last pages are for the SOHC and tensioner like you have: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/TBeltEWWin05.pdf P.S. I had contract work last fall out at Blair in Warren..... Think I passed very close to you then since I went out I-80 than all backroads north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 (Why rounded belt cogs?? Just to tempt fate??!!) Subaru has determined the rounded cogs generate less heat. Subaru timing belts are pretty reliable; don't hear of many breaking or having issues before their time. There have been failed tensioners and idler pulleys and the crank pulley bolt backing out, but these are typically because either the idlers should have been checked when timing belt was replaced or crank pulley bolt was not retorqued correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 This sounds all wrong. What caused you to look into this to begin with. Also it being a 2005 is it still under warrenty? The belts rarely give out before 105,000 miles, they might give out at 105,100 miles but never before. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Does sound a bit out of the ordinary. By the way, torque spec is 120Nm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim 54 Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 Nipper The reason I looked at the timing belt was it is supposed to be inspected at the 30K service. Then this fiasco started cause upon removing the inspection cover on the left side of the engine I found I could move the belt up and down about an inch!! Now that is simply not right. This car does not get a lot of miles on it. It sits some times for a week at a time. Finally got the thing disassembled. (Used the old tried and true starter motor method.) Upon removing the lower belt idler pullies with the belt sitting there with no tension on it the tensioner snapped all the way open all of a sudden. It was bound up. New tensioner ought to do the trick. Trouble is the one that was on there was not that old to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 +1 what nipper said. is it still under warranty? what made you look at the timing belt? the crank pulleys are tight and one of the worst to remove on the vehicle, so you're not alone. automatic or manual? put a manual trans in gear, ebrake on and block the wheels. an automatic there's a bellhousing access hole under the intake manifold. rotate engine until you see an access slot in the flexplate to insert a socket extension, this will hold it in place. the starter trick works every time...just about, so that's fine too if you're comfortable doing it and know how to do it. don't start the engine, just bump it over and make sure everything is placed right. if you can't get the pulley bolt off and this is your first time, i'd also be concerned that it won't be reinstalled properly. that can cause serious damage to the crank and keyway that many mechanics won't even fix. make sure the pulley is at least as tight as the spec's. cast iron crank and cast iron bolt, it won't strip. since youre new to this, be advised these are aluminum engines and heads, don't go buck wild on any bolts holding tensioners or pulleys in aluminum, it strips easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 you posted while i was typing. cool, you got it off, just make sure it's very tight when you get it back on. i've never used a torque wrench on a crank pulley bolt, i have a 3 foot pipe that i put on my socket that puts it well over specs. new tensioner should do it. that's great you caught it, this would cause serious engine damage if it happened to slip a tooth - interference engine and all. that would have been sucky luck had it let loose on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim 54 Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 The bolt is right handed but very tight. Some have used a breaker bar and rest it against the ground, then disable the ignition by removing the spark plug cables or pulling the fuel pump fuse, then hit the starter. The bolt breaks free. But I usually hold the flywheel with a large screwdriver and a long 1/2" breaker bar. Regarding failed tensioners. Yes they do fail. I have seen bad bearings on them. Also failed tensioners. Both the original tensioner and the newer ( 97 to current ) tensioner/pulley assy. Seems the plunger becomes stationary and no longer extends. This causes the belt to flop and the pulley to bounce. It sounds like a bad rod bearing or piston slap. Easy to determine, just remove the drivers side timing belt cover and start the car. Look down and watch the tensioner. If it bounces or the belt, then the tensioner is defective. Biggest cause I have found is a servicer, when replacing the timing belt, doesn't take their time compressing the tensioner. It calls for no more than 1000 ft/lbs and MUST be done vertically. Many may use a VISE to do this ( not correct ). A C-clamp serves better and it takes 8-10 Min's of small turns to do it correctly. Subaru also had a TBS about these for the 99-02 models. And under warranty replaced many of them. End of my $.02 and experiences ........... Ferret You hit the nail on the head. Read my post about the tensionre. Great advice!! This thing could have caused a great deal of pain had one of the cam gears slipped timing!! Pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim 54 Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share Posted September 3, 2007 USMBs a great sight! Thanks for all the imput one and all!!! Have a great Holiday!! I'm on the side....Pilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 USMBs a great sight! Thanks for all the imput one and all!!! Have a great Holiday!! I'm on the side....Pilgrim how many miles on the vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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