No oil pressure, clicky valves...

[Ether Circus]

So I just bought this 1980 GL-5 1600cc wagon with 102,xxx miles on it and it has a few issues. First of all, the car is not leaking oil much if at all. When I start it cold the oil pressure goes up to about 34 psi. And the engine sounds, well like a cold engine but I can rev it up and it sounds fine. Once the engine reaches operating temp the oil pressure drops to almost nothing and it sounds like the valves are clicketty clacking away. Is this a common thing? Could it be that my oil pump just stops working once it heats up? Am I going to sieze my engine if I drive it?

Any info would be appreciated.

[GeneralDisorder]

So I just bought this 1980 GL-5 1600cc wagon with 102,xxx miles on it and it has a few issues. First of all, the car is not leaking oil much if at all. When I start it cold the oil pressure goes up to about 34 psi. And the engine sounds, well like a cold engine but I can rev it up and it sounds fine. Once the engine reaches operating temp the oil pressure drops to almost nothing and it sounds like the valves are clicketty clacking away. Is this a common thing? Could it be that my oil pump just stops working once it heats up? Am I going to sieze my engine if I drive it?

Any info would be appreciated.

 

You don't have hydro lifters so you need to adjust them every 15,000 - it's probably WAY overdue for a valve adjust.

 

Oil pressure dropping with increased temp is normal - first you should confirm the *real* pressure with a good mechanical gauge set before you do anything else - the senders are notoriously unreliable with age. You may just need a new sending unit. Good oil pressure for the EA71 is around 50 psi hot cruise, and no less than 20 psi hot idle.

 

GD

[nipper]

So I just bought this 1980 GL-5 1600cc wagon with 102,xxx miles on it and it has a few issues. First of all, the car is not leaking oil much if at all. When I start it cold the oil pressure goes up to about 34 psi. And the engine sounds, well like a cold engine but I can rev it up and it sounds fine. Once the engine reaches operating temp the oil pressure drops to almost nothing and it sounds like the valves are clicketty clacking away. Is this a common thing? Could it be that my oil pump just stops working once it heats up? Am I going to sieze my engine if I drive it?

Any info would be appreciated.

 

34 seems low (define cold). At idle a warm enigne will have a low oil pressure reading. What is the reading at 2000 rpm?

 

nipper

[Ether Circus]

at 2000 rpms its about 2 or 3 psi when its warm.

 

cold, it reads at about 35 or so.

 

So i'm not really in danger of ruining anything if i continue to drive it? i bought this car to drive while i fix my other one and i gotta get to work somehow!! Thanks for all the help!!!

[nipper]

DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR!

 

that oil pressure is extreemly low. At 2000 rpm you should be at least in the 30's.

 

First question, what are you measuring this with (brand name of gauge please) and what is the range of the gauge.

 

Second thing i would do is replace the oil pump. Hopefully thats the reason for the issues. At that low a mileage i cant beleive you have a bearing issue.

 

Also do an oil change and change the filter.

 

I dont have the specs in front of me, but you need to be much higher then that. My 83 would peg the oil pressure gauge untill the oil warmed up on a cold start.

 

nipper

[GeneralDisorder]

Second thing i would do is replace the oil pump. Hopefully thats the reason for the issues. At that low a mileage i cant beleive you have a bearing issue.

 

Hehe - good luck. 1600 oil pump aren't easy to come by.

 

GD

[nipper]

Hehe - good luck. 1600 oil pump aren't easy to come by.

 

GD

 

Well its either that or an engine.

 

Unless YOU have any suggestions?

 

nipper

[GeneralDisorder]

Well its either that or an engine.

 

Unless YOU have any suggestions?

 

nipper

 

First he needs to test the pressure - it's very possibly just the sender.

 

GD

[nipper]

First he needs to test the pressure - it's very possibly just the sender.

 

GD

 

Thats why i asked what he's measuring with.

 

 

nipper

[Ether Circus]

I'm just going by the stock guage in the cluster.

 

so if my oil pump is going out and they are hard to come by, what would you suggest?

[GeneralDisorder]

I'm just going by the stock guage in the cluster.

 

so if my oil pump is going out and they are hard to come by, what would you suggest?

 

Drop in an EA81.... you can get the oil pumps for them still. Or find a late 80's EA71 as they changed them to use the same oil pump as the EA81 and it would bolt to your bell-housing making a trans change uneccesary.

 

But seriously - check your readings first - the senders are notoriously innacurate and you probably don't need a pump - the pushrod engines should only need new oil pumps every 150 - 200 thousand.

 

GD

[Ether Circus]

Drop in an EA81.... you can get the oil pumps for them still. Or find a late 80's EA71 as they changed them to use the same oil pump as the EA81 and it would bolt to your bell-housing making a trans change uneccesary.

 

But seriously - check your readings first - the senders are notoriously innacurate and you probably don't need a pump - the pushrod engines should only need new oil pumps every 150 - 200 thousand.

 

GD

would a pressure sensor from an ea81 oil pump work on an ea71? i have an extra ea81 sitting in my shed that i could swap the sensor from if it'll even work. i can imagine that they read differently since the displacement is different. thanks again for all the feed back.

[GeneralDisorder]

would a pressure sensor from an ea81 oil pump work on an ea71? i have an extra ea81 sitting in my shed that i could swap the sensor from if it'll even work. i can imagine that they read differently since the displacement is different. thanks again for all the feed back.

 

Should be the same sensor - displacement really has nothing to do with the oil pressure.

 

But I was really refering to using a *mechanical* gauge to check the reading and verify the electric sender. You can get cheap pressure testers from Harbor Freight or the like for around $10. Or wall mart has a mechanical gauge that you can put in the cabin for like $6.99 - you may have to find a longer length of tubing for it and some adaptors but I put one in my EA82 sedan for about $30 total.

 

GD

[yzerman19]

I have hardly ever seen ANY oil pressure on the "idiot oil pressure" gauge on my 90 Loyale. A new sender is ridiculously priced and just ain't worth it. $15 at Autozone gets you a gauge with the mechanical sending unit/hose.

 

Mechanical sender with an after-market gauge is the way to go. I put one on my 89 F250 and have been very pleased with seeing the 'acual pressure'. Some day I'll get bored and put one on the Loyale too.

 

As for your valves, a half quart of ATF in the oil will help get them filled/pumped up. Just be sure to do some high engine revs for at least a few minutes. (I just re-installed my EA82 and posted a topic about bad lifters. The .5 quart of ATF they suggested did the trick!) Be sure to change the oil after 100 miles or so. SeaFoam is good for 'unsticking' lifters too.

[nipper]

a cheap mechanical gauge with good pressure is the way to go on this. Facotry gauges or "ok" to let you know something is not right, but not for diagnoses. See if you can get the 30.00 name brand gauge instead of the 15.00 whothehellisthis brand.

 

nipper

[GeneralDisorder]

I have hardly ever seen ANY oil pressure on the "idiot oil pressure" gauge on my 90 Loyale. A new sender is ridiculously priced and just ain't worth it. $15 at Autozone gets you a gauge with the mechanical sending unit/hose.

 

The senders aren't *that* much - by the time it's said and done with EA Subaru's a mechanical gauge will cost the same. Longer tubing (pump is really far from the dash), and metric adaptors that none of them include, etc. The senders can be had for about $25 - $30 at OEM parts houses.

 

As for your valves, a half quart of ATF in the oil will help get them filled/pumped up. Just be sure to do some high engine revs for at least a few minutes. (I just re-installed my EA82 and posted a topic about bad lifters. The .5 quart of ATF they suggested did the trick!) Be sure to change the oil after 100 miles or so. SeaFoam is good for 'unsticking' lifters too.

 

A half quart of ATF, while probably not a terrible idea for flushing the old EA81, will do exactly nothing for his SOLID LIFTER valves.

 

GD

[Ether Circus]

My buddy's co-worker was a subaru tech back in the early 90's and worked on these cars a ton. he ordered me an oil pump re-seal kit. he said that the ea71's came in with this problem a lot and 99% of the time resealing the pump fixed the problem. so that will be my next step. thanks for all the good info though!!!

[GeneralDisorder]

My buddy's co-worker was a subaru tech back in the early 90's and worked on these cars a ton. he ordered me an oil pump re-seal kit. he said that the ea71's came in with this problem a lot and 99% of the time resealing the pump fixed the problem. so that will be my next step. thanks for all the good info though!!!

 

Your buddy's experience may be clouded with time. It's the EA82's that are often fixed with reseal kits - they have a "mickey mouse" gasket that gets hard and sucks into the oil passage allowing air into the system. The EA71 and EA81 do not have this failing. Also, in the "early 90's" he wouldn't have been working on too many EA71's and EA81's as they hadn't really been produced in numbers since 84 for the main lines, 87 for Brat's (EA81 only), and 89 for the lowely hatch. The EA71 was even more rare due to it only being used in the STD model hatch - which was quite uncommon really.

 

But any way, the EA71/81 pumps rarely benefit more than a fractional amont with a reseal kit - when the pressure drops it's nearly always a faulty sending unit, or a bad pump. My experience is that the EA81 pumps last around 100k to 150k pretty well. Once the pressure drops below 20 psi hot idle it's time for a new pump.

 

GD

[NV Zeno]

This may be only slightly relevant...

 

On my way to WCSS earlier this year, I noticed my oil pressure gage read nearly zero at freeway speed. I got off the freeway, shut down, and took some deep breaths (and a leak at the Qwik-E-Mart). Upon starting back up, or at idle, the reading was normal for that RPM. No unusual noises, and my level was correct. Back on the freeway, reading almost zero.

 

My car is an '83 EA81, 312,000 miles(at that time), replaced the oil pump a while back, but not the sensor. I've taken really good care of this engine, but you wouldn't suspect that when looking at my "custom" bodywork:lol: . I'm SURE it's the sensor that's faulty. BTW, I made the 800+ mile trip back home to Nevada without any trouble.

 

As of now, I'm just waiting for the temperature in my garage to be comfortable enough to swap the sensor and solve this issue. (Maybe a week or two:-\ )

 

I'm going to post some questions/requests about my particular needs elsewhere, so as not to hijack here.

 

Conclusion/educated guess/my opinion: Pressure sensor.

 

Just my 2 bucks

[Ether Circus]

But any way, the EA71/81 pumps rarely benefit more than a fractional amont with a reseal kit - when the pressure drops it's nearly always a faulty sending unit, or a bad pump. My experience is that the EA81 pumps last around 100k to 150k pretty well. Once the pressure drops below 20 psi hot idle it's time for a new pump.

 

GD

 

SO, I guess i'll swap out the sending unit to see if that does anything. i hope it does. and i hope these valves just need to be adjusted. If this doesn't fix it, where can I get a pump? i've been looking around on the internet to no avail.

[GeneralDisorder]

SO, I guess i'll swap out the sending unit to see if that does anything. i hope it does. and i hope these valves just need to be adjusted. If this doesn't fix it, where can I get a pump? i've been looking around on the internet to no avail.

 

Call CCR - if anyone will know where to source one they will.

 

GD

[msteel]

Call CCR - if anyone will know where to source one they will.

 

GD

 

And, if you don't know who/what CCR is, that would be Colorado Component Rebuilders http://www.ccrengines.com/

[yzerman19]

I've been in Colorado for 17 years now, and I'm just now finding out about CCR. This forum rules.

 

I'm going to get two of their axles. I've tried NAPA and AZ already and now the axles are clicking away again. Third time is a charm I hope.

[Ether Circus]

Finally got around to having my mechanic friend's co-worker help with the car and he says the sound i'm hearing is not valve lash. Neigh, it is rod knock.

 

 

But we re-sealed the oilpump and added a little lucas oil stabilizer and it is definately less noisy. but at about 3000 rpms it still knocks. Why does this happen to a car that has only 102k original miles? It's a 1980 which is older than me, but still. Could this be due to a PO not changing the oil? I have read (on this message board, come to think) that oil can become acidic when it gets too old. From the looks of the car, I think it did sit for a period of a few years.

Any advice from the masters of all things sube?

[nipper]

Finally got around to having my mechanic friend's co-worker help with the car and he says the sound i'm hearing is not valve lash. Neigh, it is rod knock.

 

 

But we re-sealed the oilpump and added a little lucas oil stabilizer and it is definately less noisy. but at about 3000 rpms it still knocks. Why does this happen to a car that has only 102k original miles? It's a 1980 which is older than me, but still. Could this be due to a PO not changing the oil? I have read (on this message board, come to think) that oil can become acidic when it gets too old. From the looks of the car, I think it did sit for a period of a few years.

Any advice from the masters of all things sube?

 

Mileage is not an indication of the health of the engine. Low mileage is just as bad, if not worse then high mileage.

 

Why?

 

Low mileage is usually indiciatvie of many short trips. Even with a thermostats and better engineered cooling systems, the engine oil in a car is slow to warm up. It takes 3 times longer to warm up the oil then the water. This means that unburnt gas and water condensation does not get to evaporate off the oil as it heats up. This mix makes an acid that eats at the aluminum bearings. This also goes hand in hand with oil changes. When a car is driven on many short trips, it actually needs more oil changes then if it was driven more often then average. No one really thinks about that, nor follows that recomendation.

 

Oil needs to be changed at regular intervals 9that are more then twice a year at the very least).

 

Blu had an owner that beleived in once a year oil changes, and he ended up throwing a connecting rod.

 

Low mileage also affects engine sels and belts. Rubber doesnt really care if the car sat parked or only drove 2 miles a day. It still ages at the same rate.

 

The best thing to do is use the 1000 miles = 1 month rule of thumb. When i have a low mileage car (and keeping it that way) i change the oil once per season.

 

nipper