Mysterious Coolant Leak--'06 Outback

[riggyrow]

I have a 2006 Outback that has been leaking coolant since the day I bought the car. 27K miles, and I've had to fill the reservoir three times (from well-below "Low" to just below "Full"). No puddles, no stains, no evidence of a leak anywhere (that I have been able to find), but I can smell the coolant when I roll down the windows or when I exit the car, particularly on/after longer drives on very hot days (can't smell it coming through the vents though, so I assume this rules out a leaking heater core). The temperature gauge never indicates the car is running hot. I've had the car pressure tested 4 times, most recently idling the car for 3 hours to get it nice and hot, but still no dice. No hydrocarbons have been detected in the coolant. Oil looks good/not cloudy as well, and I haven't seen any vapor coming out the tailpipe. I'm stumped. Any advice out there?

[porcupine73]

Hi riggyrow and

 

Some have reported this happening on certain Baja's, and it was determined to be coolant gnomes.

 

Some coolant leaks happen only under certain conditions, which can make them hard to find. An easy thing to check would be, when engine is cold, remove radiator cap and inspect. Look underneath all the little rubber parts for grit, etc. Yours is fairly new so rad cap and filler neck should be in good shape but if the cap is faulty it can let coolant leak/drip, usually when engine is hot and hence there is pressure in the system.

[idosubaru]

welcome maryland guy.

 

this needs to be dealt with at the dealer if it's this tricky. keep going back until they fix or replace it. don't wait it out until the warranty expires - that's what they want you to do. should be some lemon law or something that protects you. remember how much you paid for this car? should you have to deal with problems under a contractually stated warranty that obligates them to resolve the solution? you don't want to be stuck with a vehicle after the warranty expires that eventually looses a gasket or overheats and needs significant motor work.

 

did you buy from the annapolis dealer? a bought a car from a couple who bought all their cars from them. they took their soob in and the annapolis dealer quoted them $1,200 to fix the power steering. i told her i'd fix it for $100 but i bought the car for $250 instead...all it needed was a $15 part and about 30 minutes..and they wanted $1,200? that was a few years ago though, but i wouldn't expect it to turn around into the golden child either. of course i am not shy about my distaste and distrust of dealerships either.

 

either way, i would make them fix...emphasis on the word 'make'.

[nipper]

Need more information. Exaclty how often do you need to fill the overflow, and by how much. Some loss is normal (thats why hoods have hood latches, to open thme and inspect/topoff fluids).

 

nipper

[riggyrow]

Thanks for the info guys. Regarding the dealer and warranty...I bought the car from Annapolis Subaru, and have had them look at it twice, and took it up to Wilkins in Glen Burnie twice. Both said essentially the same thing: We can't find anything wrong and there is no pressure failure. The really disturbing thing is, both dealers keep writing on the repair orders "All fluid levels are fine at this time," despite the fact that the reservoir has been either on "Low" or almost completely empty when I've taken the car in (I actually had to ask them if they were checking the level when the engine was warm and the coolant had expanded into the reservoir, because that was the only way to explain the difference between their readings and mine--I always check it in the morning after the car has been sitting overnight). I've been reduced to taking pictures of the reservoir with my digital camera to show the gradual reduction in coolant and the almost-empty reservoir...I'm not sure how well those are going to protect me though. At this point, I'm considering no longer re-filling the reservoir, letting the coolant in the radiator drop down to the point that the check engine light comes on, and then taking the car in under conditions that force them to acknowledge that there is a problem.

[riggyrow]

Need more information. Exaclty how often do you need to fill the overflow, and by how much. Some loss is normal (thats why hoods have hood latches, to open thme and inspect/topoff fluids).

 

nipper

 

At about 9k miles I brought the level up from just above "Low" to just below "Full"...I'm not exactly sure how much that is, I just keep a pre-mixed bottle of 50/50 Subaru brand coolant on-hand. I had to do that again at 19K miles (this time it was well-below the "Low" mark) and again at 27K (again, well-below the "Low" mark). I have to do this after getting the car back from the dealer, because they're not topping it off and as I mentioned above, they're writing "All levels are fine" on the repair order. I'm not sure if they're trying to cover their butts or what, but I feel like I'm headed for a major confrontation/hassle over this. The fact that I can smell the coolant and that I've had to fill the reservoir 3 times leads me to believe this is something more than normal loss/evaporation.

[porcupine73]

At this point, I'm considering no longer re-filling the reservoir, letting the coolant in the radiator drop down to the point that the check engine light comes on,

Definitely do not suggest doing this. Unless it was something new Subaru put in, I've never seen low coolant level able to trigger the CEL/MIL. Some vehicles have an indicator for low coolant level in the overflow, but I haven't seen it on Subaru's. If the level in the system starts dropping from not getting replenished from the overflow, it can result in localized overheating and if done long enough enough times, HG failure or and even warped heads.

[riggyrow]

Definitely do not suggest doing this. Unless it was something new Subaru put in, I've never seen low coolant level able to trigger the CEL/MIL. Some vehicles have an indicator for low coolant level in the overflow, but I haven't seen it on Subaru's. If the level in the system starts dropping from not getting replenished from the overflow, it can result in localized overheating and if done long enough enough times, HG failure or and even warped heads.

 

 

Yeah, you're right. Although, since this is technically my wife's car, I'm more worried about my warped head if I do this. I'm just frustrated that the dealer has yet to acknowledge that there is even a problem. I showed them the time/date-stamped digital pics of the reservoir slowly emptying over the past month, with the last pic showing the reservoir almost empty on the morning I last brought it into the shop, and they still wrote "All levels are fine" on the R.O. I didn't now Subaru's didn't have any type of warning for low coolant in the reservoir or the radiator though. That's...interesting.

[ron917]

At this point, I'm considering no longer re-filling the reservoir, letting the coolant in the radiator drop down to the point that the check engine light comes on, and then taking the car in under conditions that force them to acknowledge that there is a problem.

 

Don't do that. The check engine light won't come on for low coolant. The engine will overheat when the coolant gets low enough. At that point, you will be blamed for neglect, and warranty coverage will be denied.

 

Now, to the problem: In cars I've owned with non-pressurized expansion tanks, I have to fill up the expansion tank about once a year. It usually takes half a quart or so. That goes for my '99 Outback, my Pontiac, and a Toyota and a Mazda I owned in the past. My European cars had expansion tanks that were part of the pressurized system, and they never lost any coolant.

 

As for the coolant smell, it seems to be common on the newer Subarus. As far as I know, no one has gotten clear answer on it. I smell it occasionally with my new '07 Outback, but it's very faint. I can also sometimes smell coolant from the Pontiac, especially when it's really hot. I've never smelled coolant from the '99 Outback.

 

My '07 may or may not have a problem with coolant loss. I bought it as a dealer demo (5800 miles on it). The expansion tank was just below the low mark. The radiator itself took about 6 ounces to bring it up the bottom of the filler neck, plus about 10 ouces to bring the level in the tank up to the top mark. I'm keeping a close eye on it.

 

BTW, the radiator on the '07 has no bleed screw, but the radiator on the '99 does. Just by looking at it, I can see there is no way to get all the air out without a vacuum filler. The top part of the fitting where the upper rad hose attaches is the same level as the filler, both of which are above the top of the radiator body itself. It really needs a bleeder at the upper rad hose fitting.

[idosubaru]

let it get low and make them write on the paperwork that it is not the correct level. it could differ but i've never had one go down in 10k of driving. question is....does it ever get low enough to empty the overflow tank? i would let it go to that point, then take it in, rather than taking it in when it's just low in the tank and temps/expansion put it to normal.

 

if it were mine i'd run it til it blows and tell them they can deal with me and fix it or deal with a lawyer...and i've yet to actually have to get a lawyer for anything.

[nipper]

OK we do the simplest thing first, we get a new radiator cap and see what happens. Maybe its just me, but i wouldnt even think of it as being an issue.

 

nipper

[montana105]

And if after replacing radiator cap you notice loss again take it back to dealer and have them specify levels before and after,do not pay the bill until they have accomplished this and you are satisfied that you have protected your behind for the future.If you have to-when you drop car off in full view of everyone snap a picture of the reservoir and then explain that you want it noted on the RO that the reservoir is low and how much fluid was needed to bring it up to level.

[brus brother]

If I remember correctly, there is a fluorescent dye that SOA can add to the coolant. After a couple of days, they can inspect the engine and surrounds with a UV light that will show if and where the leak is located. Of course this is not helpful with internal leaks but if it is an external leak that is evaporating on contact with a hot engine or exhaust.

[dragonfire]

ok i have a baja '05 i have noticed the same thing. every so often i get a whiff of coolant at first i thought it maybe someone else seems i remember smelling it in traffic.

the only other time i smelt it was driving two hours to see some old friends and when i got there i smelt it getting out of the car. i popped the hood but did not see or smell anything i thought maybe i was have losing it.

i will have to ask the dealer when i go to pick up my bugflector.

[nipper]

ok i have a baja '05 i have noticed the same thing. every so oftern i get a whiff of coolant at first i thought it maybe someone else seems i remeber smelling it in traffic.

the only other time i smelt it was driving to hours to see some old friends and when i got there i smelt it getting out of the car. i popped the hood but did not see or smell anything i thought maybe i was have losing it.

i will have to ask the dealer when i go to pick up my bugflector.

 

When i rented a 2005 for ten days i asked the service manager about this. He said hes had other complaints, including the rental i had, but they could never really trace it, (including using Dye and leak down testing).

 

Thats why technically your supposed to check the fluids regularly. It may just be evaporating off.

 

 

Good luck with this one, as i a unsubscribing from this thread.

 

 

nipper

[subeman90]

mine (the baja) is going in on the 27th of the month for a grocery list of issues and this is one of them. I was the one who thought it might be a gnome but I haven't seen any traces of him.

 

we will see what happens.

[riggyrow]

mine (the baja) is going in on the 27th of the month for a grocery list of issues and this is one of them. I was the one who thought it might be a gnome but I haven't seen any traces of him.

 

we will see what happens.

 

I actually read that post of yours before submitting mine, and thought "Ah, well, at least if I'm nuts and this is all in my head then this guy is crazy too." I've actually found quite a few other people who have had/are having the same experience. No one has posted about getting it resolved though. The Outback is going in for its 30K service some time in the next month or so, and I'll be having them check this out again (I checked the rad. cap as suggested and it seemed fine, and there didn't appear to be any evaporated coolant around the filler neck). I would love to hear if you get this fixed or at the very least find out what's going on. I'll post it if the tech. has anything worth reporting after the 30k service.

[porcupine73]

[riggyrow]

BahHaHaHaHaHaHa! That's awesome! Lil bastard.