Major Problems - 99 OBW

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

So, I a bought 99 Outback knowing it was likely to develop Headgasket problems but relieved when everything seemed OK on an extended test drive. No overheating, no bubbles in coolant tank. I bought the car two weeks ago.

 

My brakes didn't work the day I bought the car. This turned out to be the master cylinder. Easy enough repair.

 

Then, I noticed some tranny problems after I fixed the brakes. It doesn't always engage immediately when I put it in drive but seems a lot better once it warms up.

 

My mechanic also said it has two oil leaks - one on a valve cover and one at the rear of the engine.

 

So, tonight I'm driving home enjoying my new car. I turn on the heat and the temp gauge starts going up. I immediately suspect HG but hope it is something else. I turn the car off and start it again. It runs cool all the way home. I took it for another test drive and it heats up agin when going up a hill with the heat on. I then noticed bubbles in the coolant tank. I haven't been able to get it to to heat up yet without the heat on but I'm thinking this is just a coincidence.

 

So, I'm looking at replacing Headgaskets, a possible transmission, and I only drove the car about two hundred miles. The car is in great shape cosmetically and probably has another ten years left on it in that sense.

 

Since I am not the original owner, I'm not sure if it is worth the gamble to replace the head gaskets if the previous owner let it overheat a number of times. The carfax is clean but only shows it wasn't dealer serviced - although it does appear to be well maintained.

 

I owe about $5000 as of today including the car, taxes, and my first repair. Is it worth even doing the work considering the engine could have some major problems from previous overheating? I would like to just get my money back and find something else but I doubt I have any legal rights since the car came as is. I am angry with myself and the guy I bought the car from. I had a great experience with my 91 Turbo but it is old and slowly falling apart... Any advice?

[nipper]

The headgasket issue has just started, so i doubt the engine is cooked.

 

Before you do anything go to the NHTSA web site and look up the recalls for this car. I am not sure if there is a MC issue or not. Its unusla for a MC to go on a sooby this young.

 

The delay in shifting, nothing you can do about it. Good news is that it doesnt hurt anything. Its either a leaky check valve inside the tranny, or a seal or a pump. A lot of them from this year do it, and so far it seems that none of them are getting any worse.

 

How many miles are on the car.

 

nipper

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

130,000. The car does run well overall, so I doubt the engine is too damaged. Does anyone know a good mechanic in PA to do this job? I'll probably replace the oil separator plate, timing belt, water pump, etc at the same time. How much should I plan to spend? I'd hate to end up with another huge problem after spending so much cash.

[frag]

You'll save tons of money doing it yourself. I'm totally amateur and replaced the left head gasket myself a few weeks ago while having the valves done by a machine shop.

Removing and replacing the heads and gaskets is easy, what's not so easy is removing and replacing the intake manifold with all it's wires, hoses, etc. It's not that difficult but time consuming.

 

That brings a question I'd like to ask the more experienced here (Nipper, Grossgary, etc.) Would it be possible to remove and replace the heads without removing the intake manifold completely. It seems to me I could have just removed the bolts and lift it a little without disconnecting eveything instead of removing it entirely like I did. What do you think?

[msmithmmx]

You owe 5 G's in on a 99 OBW that is worth 3 G's working. By the time you have this all fixed your another 3 g's in. I would say cut your loss unless you can do all the work yourself. I purchased a 97 OBW with a blown HG for 500 bucks ( the trans was working) that all its worth in that condition.

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

I would like to sue the guy I bought it from. I researched the value of this car in the condition I thought it was in and valued it at $4600. I definitely made a mistake but I really can't turn back now. I shopped around quite a bit and did not find too many under $4000 unless the miles were higher and the condition was shoddy. I probably would have been better off either paying more for a newer vehicle or getting a 96 or 97. The car looks good and the interior is in perfect condition - I guess I was scammed. I think there isn't a lot I can do about it now except fix it. I did run across one or two for less with lower miles but they sold before I had a chance to make an offer. Most OBW's after 99 are over five G's.

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

I would love to do the work myself but I am willing to admit that this job is too much for me. I'd rather have it done right to minimize continuous problems. I think I will spend the extra money for a warranty next time I buy a used car. This car was $2000 less than another one the guy had which was newer but had more miles. I also found a few others for less but needed some repairs like cv joints, wheel bearings, etc. It does suck - I know I made a bad decision. I still need a good, honest mechanic though... I don't have the option to cut my losses really since I'll need at least $3000 - $5000 to get another used car that could easily end up with the same problems.

[hankosolder2]

I would love to do the work myself but I am willing to admit that this job is too much for me. I'd rather have it done right to minimize continuous problems. I think I will spend the extra money for a warranty next time I buy a used car. This car was $2000 less than another one the guy had which was newer but had more miles. I also found a few others for less but needed some repairs like cv joints, wheel bearings, etc. It does suck - I know I made a bad decision. I still need a good, honest mechanic though... I don't have the option to cut my losses really since I'll need at least $3000 - $5000 to get another used car that could easily end up with the same problems.

 

Sorry to hear about your bad luck... if it's a straight, rust free, sound car it is probably worth repairing. Hey, a halfway decent new car is $25K+, so even if you get more money into this car than the book says it's worth, you're still way ahead (if you get some decent use out of it once it's fixed.)

 

I think that used Subaru prices vary WIDELY depending on your location.

 

Nathan

[wtdash]

I'm in the 'fix it camp' too. The HG should be <$1500 job - not a cheap repair, but cheaper than a new car. Look on Car Talk's website (the NPR guys) for local, reputable mechanics. Or AAA can recommend some too.

 

Also, I know it's a long-shot, but my old '90 Legacy had a similar HG-like issue after I flushed the radiator due to an air bubble. I re-filled the system from the top hose and all was good. Any chance it just needs burped?

 

Do a tranny flush, which may help, but likely the delay in the 4EAT won't get worse.....Mine didn't.

 

Also, here in the Northwest $5k is cheap for a '99 OB w/130k...even though it seems we have about 1/2 the OBWs in the US driving around - they are everywhere. But still hold their value. If I could get 'em for $3k 'round here, I'd replace my '90!

 

So, cut yourself some slack. When winter shows up, you'll be glad you got it!

 

 

Good Luck!

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

I'm in the 'fix it camp' too. The HG should be <$1500 job - not a cheap repair, but cheaper than a new car. Look on Car Talk's website (the NPR guys) for local, reputable mechanics. Or AAA can recommend some too.

 

Also, I know it's a long-shot, but my old '90 Legacy had a similar HG-like issue after I flushed the radiator due to an air bubble. I re-filled the system from the top hose and all was good. Any chance it just needs burped?

 

Do a tranny flush, which may help, but likely the delay in the 4EAT won't get worse.....Mine didn't.

 

Also, here in the Northwest $5k is cheap for a '99 OB w/130k...even though it seems we have about 1/2 the OBWs in the US driving around - they are everywhere. But still hold their value. If I could get 'em for $3k 'round here, I'd replace my '90!

 

So, cut yourself some slack. When winter shows up, you'll be glad you got it!

 

 

Good Luck!

 

I had similar problems with my 2.2 Turbo and it turned out to be air and a leak. The air bubbles and oily smell in the coolant tank make me lean towards the HG. I hope its something less expensive. It didn't start heating up until I turned on the heat but I still doubt its just air.

[lmdew]

You could find a good 95 2.2 from a automatic Subaru and drop it in. The motor should be less than $500. The 95 motors last and last.

[The Dude]

In many states, there is no such thing as a true "as is" sale if the vehicle is sold for use on the public highways by a licensed car dealer. Frequently, there is minimum warranty period that is REQUIRED by state law. If it is applicable to your case, it is your best option.

Next time buy your used car in SC, or elsewhere in the deep south. I practically had to give my Forester away. Subarus command no premium out of the snow belt.

[johnceggleston]

fix the car, either do the head gaskets or swap in a 2.2L engine. drive it 100k and you'll make out ok. will you have other expenses down the road, sure, but they should come in 300-400 intervals for maintanence. the next big one will be timing belt at 200k.

 

when the loans paid, re-evaluate. how many miles have you driven it, how much have invested, how much do you like it, how much can you get for it.?

[biglittledog]

You owe 5 G's in on a 99 OBW that is worth 3 G's working. By the time you have this all fixed your another 3 g's in...

 

Interesting...that car would be worth twice that (prolly 5500 to 6k easy) here in Colorado with that mileage and great condition.

Maybe there is somebody knowledgeable nearby that can take a look at it with you?

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

Interesting...that car would be worth twice that (prolly 5500 to 6k easy) here in Colorado with that mileage and great condition.

Maybe there is somebody knowledgeable nearby that can take a look at it with you?

 

 

As I said earlier, I couldn't find one under $4000 anywhere despite what the earlier poster stated about it being worth $3000 in perfect condition. Plus, it is a limited Edition in perfect condition other than the HG and Tranny issue. I did pay less than $5000, but with taxes and Tags it was five. There is no way you could get this car for $3000 around here if it were in perfect condition. Either way, I did make a mistake considering the problems I need to repair now.

[GeneralDisorder]

Seriously - just do the job yourself. You have this board to assist, and the experience will prove invaluable.

 

Part of the money you save will buy the tools to do the job, and the learning experience will empower you in a way you have probably yet to experience with car ownership.

 

Man up and turn a wrench or two. Too many people whine about this stuff when it's really quite easy. Ask around this board and legacycentral - there's probably a few folks in your area that will drop by and give you hand for a few beers.

 

A friend of mine who had never turned a wrench before finally decided to save some money a few years ago and asked me to assist him with a timing belt change on his new-to-him '98 Audi A4. Well 4 years later and he's empowered so much that with only guidance from me he's accomplished a whole mess of things to his new '01 twin turbo A6 - timing belt, water pump, aux electric water pump, valve cover gaskets, cam tensioner gaskets, engine mounts, suspension bushings, tranny flush, etc, etc.

 

GD

[garthpro]

Where in PA?

there are tons of subeys in in Pitt. so there should be multiple mechanics there.

 

I would love to do the work myself but I am willing to admit that this job is too much for me. I'd rather have it done right to minimize continuous problems. I think I will spend the extra money for a warranty next time I buy a used car. This car was $2000 less than another one the guy had which was newer but had more miles. I also found a few others for less but needed some repairs like cv joints, wheel bearings, etc. It does suck - I know I made a bad decision. I still need a good, honest mechanic though... I don't have the option to cut my losses really since I'll need at least $3000 - $5000 to get another used car that could easily end up with the same problems.

[Reveeen]

I had a great experience with my 91 Turbo but it is old and slowly falling apart... Any advice?

 

Throw the two together making one if $$$$ are tight.

[msmithmmx]

When I say 3 g's thats Ebay price and to me thats the REAL Blue Book value and i would say the value for others on this board. The other price is what that car is worth with a blown head gasket, and thats 500 bucks. I have one in my garage I bought for that. Here is my question for you. Have you ever removed 10 or more bolts on your engine at one time? if not I would urge against doing the job yourself unless you have some help from someone who has done this before.

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

When I say 3 g's thats Ebay price and to me thats the REAL Blue Book value and i would say the value for others on this board. The other price is what that car is worth with a blown head gasket, and thats 500 bucks. I have one in my garage I bought for that. Here is my question for you. Have you ever removed 10 or more bolts on your engine at one time? if not I would urge against doing the job yourself unless you have some help from someone who has done this before.

 

I've done lots of work on cars myself over the years, but I'm smart enough to have someone else help with this job. However, there is no way you could get this car for 3 g's in perfect condition. The bluebook value is much more than I paid. I know i made a bad buy overall but you are flat out wrong here and really just being negative. I could part the car out for 2 g's if I wanted to. Your input is totally unhelpful and unneeded. A 99 Limited is worth far more than a 96 - 98 standard with the same miles. Yea, you could probably get one for 3 g's on Ebay, but it would probably also have major issues, plus you would probably have to travel halfway across the country to get it. I really don't need anyone to confirm what I already know - so, please only post if you have something useful to say - otherwise, I really don't need your two cents!

[3Pin]

Sewoolf:

 

I guess I would worry less about what your car is worth and instead focus on finding a good mechanic to fix your subie now that you have decided someone other than you will do the work. I can't blame you, I hired out three HG jobs just because I don't have the time to do them.

 

I have found as others have on this board that if you buy quality subie parts wholesale, that saves on the cost of the repair as well.

 

Good luck!

[subaru360]

I live over in Fleetwood. I can probably help you out of your problems. I work on Subaru's a lot. If you don't know the history of the 2.5 with head gasket issues I wouldn't put money into it, like you said, no way to know how many times it was overheated. I would do the swap to a 2.2 like somebody else mentioned. This is probably the cheapest way out of your problem. I've done 4 of these swaps and it works great. I work from home and I actually have 2 of the ones I did still here I could show you. If your interested send me a PM and we can talk, it's not an expensive job, neither is a used transmission if needed down the road.

[biglittledog]

Well, there ya go! It's a start and probably a good second opinion on what to do.

Good Luck with the car. Post on what happens next!

[msmithmmx]

First, I found 2 or 3 Sub's on ebay at or around 3G's. As far as me being usefull, I have done 2 of these swaps and would have helped you up untill that post. I put my frustation aside and wish you luck becuase after all your getting a sub back on the road.

 

 

I've done lots of work on cars myself over the years, but I'm smart enough to have someone else help with this job. However, there is no way you could get this car for 3 g's in perfect condition. The bluebook value is much more than I paid. I know i made a bad buy overall but you are flat out wrong here and really just being negative. I could part the car out for 2 g's if I wanted to. Your input is totally unhelpful and unneeded. A 99 Limited is worth far more than a 96 - 98 standard with the same miles. Yea, you could probably get one for 3 g's on Ebay, but it would probably also have major issues, plus you would probably have to travel halfway across the country to get it. I really don't need anyone to confirm what I already know - so, please only post if you have something useful to say - otherwise, I really don't need your two cents!

[Sewoolf@ptdprolog.net]

First, I found 2 or 3 Sub's on ebay at or around 3G's. As far as me being usefull, I have done 2 of these swaps and would have helped you up untill that post. I put my frustation aside and wish you luck becuase after all your getting a sub back on the road.

 

No harm intended, it just didn't seem that you had any intention other than to make me feel even worse than I already did for making this purchase, which i found unuseful. I certanly would have been open to your help if it was offered. Anyway, xTurbo is helping me out by doing the repairs. He will be posting a link to some pics later. I would have swapped the 2.2 but it has 223000 miles on it and has its fair share of problems. I do thank all of you for the input and I hope i can pay off my debts before the car is a pile of rust. I would have purchased something from a dealer with a warranty had I known I would be getting a car with so many problems and would be spending the money I'm spending. I am definitely going to pursue the issue with the seller since he was dumb enough to put a PA inspection sticker on the car while the car had some safety issues going on that made his inspection fraudulent.