Wheel Bearing estimates

[PAezb]

My 96 OBW has started to have the tell-tale signs of either a failing front axle(s) or wheel bearing(s). I *think* by the sounds, kind of a thud, thud, thud, that varies with wheel speed and is pronounce when corning, especially in right turns, that it's most likely the CV axle on the front driver side. BTW, tires just replaced, but it was starting to make noises 10K ago, even before I redid the brakes (new rotors and pads). It's gotten a little worse since, but not terrible *yet*.

 

So, I'm pricing parts on bearings (and seals), axles, and probably new struts - I have not done this kind of work before, so I've been calling some local shops for labor only estimates. What amazes me is I'm getting a labor time quote of approximately 5 hours if I were to have just the front bearings done. That seems ridiculous - can anyone experienced with the work involved give me what should be reasonable estimate for time it should take for an experienced mechanic?

 

I would try to do the work myself, but now is not a good time in my schedule to tinkering with work I have not attempted before and have this car out of commission for several days (shade tree mechanic you know...)

 

I'm assuming since the work is all front drive/suspension related that I should get a break on labor rates. Am I wrong?

[idosubaru]

if you did want to do this yourself, take the hub and bearings to a machine shop and have them pressed in for you. that would save you time on the tricky part, struts, axle and a hub swap won't take long at all, that would be easy. i have spare hubs and that's what i do, makes it super simple to do it myself with no down time. swapping a hub is cake.

 

another option is to just buy a used hub and swap that in yourself or have a shop install a used hub for you.

 

and another option is to find out exactly what part is bad and only replace that item. i agree - sounds like axle, in which case why bother replacing the bearings?

 

5 hours includes removing and installing the hub? they may sub that work out to a neighboring machine shop to deal with the pressing jobs.

[PAezb]

 

and another option is to find out exactly what part is bad and only replace that item. i agree - sounds like axle, in which case why bother replacing the bearings?

 

.

 

I'm looking at worst case senarios for cost. The bearing kit for both bearings and seals runs $55 to $85 from 1stsubaruparts.com and subarupartsyou.com respectively )I'm waiting on an email from 1stsubaruparts.com to confirm that what I look up is indeed a kit for both sides, not just for 1 wheel, that price seems low for both sides) Still, not bad if it's just for one side. And will definitely go with MWE for the remanufactured axles.

 

wheel bearing part - 28016AA011NT KIT

 

So, I have to determine if that cost is worth the "preventive maintenance" to have the bearings replaced now as long as wheels are coming off anyway to do the axles and the struts. I don't know if I want to mess with finding some used hub assemblies to swap - but I'll consider it.

 

And as you stated, I still need to nail down exactly what all is failing...

[PAezb]

Ok, I'm laughing now. I decided for price comparison to call a local dealer, White Bear Acura/Subau in the Twin Cities. Asked what the "labor only" cost would be to replace both struts, axles, and bearings - $1,600 This was just to get an idea of what is involved.

 

When I ask how much time was calculated to do just the wheel bearing - 9 hours.

 

For the axles - 3 hours.

 

 

The time for the axles seems reasonable, but why are wheel bearing so time consuming?

[idosubaru]

wow, you were probably laughing over the phone.

 

buying a used hub isn't a good idea unless you know yours are bad, which it sounds like they are not. or if you wanted a set to have new bearings installed in. machine shops typically charge $50-$100 to install bearings in a hub, an hour or two labor but that's with the hub already off. i guess that 9 hours is for both sides? that would be 4.5 hours each, with much of that being removal of the hub. i don't know, but they may well sub that out to a machine shop as well. i'm surprised they'd even quote you for installing supplied parts at a dealer. thing is you're getting double and triple charged for removing the wheel, the hub, the struts...all of those are involved or partially involved in each individual job, but their shop rates are just added together. that's why a good mechanic at a dealer can make 6 figures around larger cities.

[PAezb]

Yeah, I just about broke out laughing out loud when talking to White Bear Subaru. I just got off the phone with Morrie's Subaru in Minnetonka, where I bought the car waaaay back in Nov. of 1995. The service guy pretty much confirmed the same time and labor rate estimates, and kind of covered what is involved to do the bearings. He owns a 96 OBW as well, along with a early 200x STi (Cobb Tuning, Modified exhaust, Dyno'd on a Mustang Dyno at 350hp at the wheels), and seemed to be pretty knowledgeable. Anyway, he confirmed that the axles are pretty easy to do yourself, bearings are more labor intensive.

Highly recommended against *any* remanufactured axle, only new OEM Subaru, stated that their experience was that 9 out of 10 remanufactured axles had problems with vibration after installation. He had not heard of MWE axles which I thought was surprising, but maybe not.

 

Labor Only:

3.8 hours per side - Bearings $881.60 total

1.5 hours per side - Axles $348.00 total

Didn't ask about the struts, but that added on probably comes close to the White Bear Dealership's qoute of ~$1,600 :eek:

Oh, their price for an axle is $181, compared to MWE's of $75.

 

I just find the labor rates on the bearing amazing..... unbelieveable.

 

On A Side Note:

 

The Morrie's rep and I got talking about the HG issues. He had his 96 done at 122K. He stated that their dealership sees waaaay more phase II engines (SOHC) HG issues than phase I (DOHC). Now that may not mean anything as you have to account for the numbers of each model year in the area, whether people with the older cars (phase I 2.5) maybe trying to find local independent shops to save money, etc. Could be a lot of factors, but I found it interesting. He didn't have any numbers or percentages, just confirmed that they do *alot* of HG work :rolleyes:

 

And, he stated if you have a non-turbo 2.5 with a HG failure that is not under warranty (meaning that you're paying for the parts and labor yourself) that you should ask to have the HGs for the turbo installed as they are a better HG - supposedly having an extra layer of gasket material over the non-turbo HG.

If it's under warranty, they can only replace the HG Subaru requires for that particular model engine - makes sense.

 

So, just an FYI.

[Manarius]

My mechanic: One hour and One bearing: Total: $120. 60 for the bearing and 60 for the hour of labor.

 

Same with axles.

 

To do axles and bearings would be an easy job if done at once - once you pull the bearing, you can do the axle right there without doing anything else.

[PAezb]

My mechanic: One hour and One bearing: Total: $120. 60 for the bearing and 60 for the hour of labor.

 

Same with axles.

 

To do axles and bearings would be an easy job if done at once - once you pull the bearing, you can do the axle right there without doing anything else.

 

 

Sounds like it be would worth the drive to your neck of the woods to have it done, even with current gas prices....

 

Thanks for info, I suspected both the dealers and independents here in the Twin Citie are a *little* out there on their quotes... :-\

[idosubaru]

The Morrie's rep and I got talking about the HG issues. He had his 96 done at 122K. He stated that their dealership sees waaaay more phase II engines (SOHC) HG issues than phase I (DOHC). Now that may not mean anything as you have to account for the numbers of each model year in the area, whether people with the older cars (phase I 2.5) maybe trying to find local independent shops to save money, etc. Could be a lot of factors, but I found it interesting.:

i'd say it's too many factors to nail down. other contributing factors...DOHC are older, more miles, more likely to have already been fixed, less likely to go to the dealer (like you said). two 2.5's i picked up this year had already been replaced. i buy them with blown headgaskets from individuals and i see more DOHC, probably for similar reasons with a different end result. i'd think those people are more likely to sell than get fixed and some SOHC headgaskets are covered under warranty, so of course they'll see those.

[PAezb]

Good Points. The thing that's really distressing is that apparently **alot** of HG are being done - Maybe I should look at getting Subaru training and certification in auto repair - pretty much assured continuous work while making good money....

[idosubaru]

Good Points. The thing that's really distressing is that apparently **alot** of HG are being doneQUOTE] yep, anyone that's out there in subaru world weekly knows that EJ25's loose HG like crazy. i don't believe the low "estimates" i see posted, but i'm not about to offer up my own guesses. i've stopped in local shops and seen up to 3 going on at one time...and i've never seen one EJ22 in the shops for a headgasket. aaaannnndddd.....i'm always looking for and buying blown ones, i'll just say they aren't hard to find, i find more than i have time to deal with. and i haven't come across a blown headgasket EJ22 in my searching.

[Rooster2]

Just my 2 cents worth from here in Indy. I checked my receipt folder on my 99 Outback. Last February, I had the right front wheel bearing, and inner seal replaced. Cost out the door was $199.41. Labor to do the job was 1 hour at $70.00. This was done at a Big O Tire store, a big tire chain outfit. I don't know if they pressed in the bearing themselves, or sent it out to have it done. A labor time quote of more then 2 hours, sounds ridiculous to me.

[rigfennid]

Labor Only:

3.8 hours per side - Bearings $881.60 total

1.5 hours per side - Axles $348.00 total

 

 

I got those same hours quoted - was told "that's the book rate" - and people wonder why they call it the stealership.... I supplied the axles, but had the work done while my 97 OB was up on a lift. It took the guys 45min to do BOTH front axles. 1.5hrs per side??? They must give a 10-yr old 3 spoons and a wood block and then time how long it takes them to do the job.

[PAezb]

I got those same hours quoted - was told "that's the book rate" - and people wonder why they call it the stealership.... I supplied the axles, but had the work done while my 97 OB was up on a lift. It took the guys 45min to do BOTH front axles. 1.5hrs per side??? They must give a 10-yr old 3 spoons and a wood block and then time how long it takes them to do the job.

 

Well, I've learned over the years the dealerships too often take unfair advantage of their customers in service repair and over the counter parts. When I did my front brake job I needed a reseal kit for the calipers. Morries of Mtka wanted $39 for it, ended up ordering it from Jason in Auburn for $19 plus $6.95 shipping. Not a big price difference to me really, and I had to wait a couple of day for shipping, but it pissed me off enough that the local dealer would charge twice as much for the same part that I just wanted to take my business elsewhere.

 

A couple of years ago, I was at Morries again, then talking to the service manager about a warranty issue on my 05'. I overheard one of the service reps talking to a lady about her early 2000 Outback, telling her from the code(s) that were pulled they would need to replace the catalytics, at the bargain basement price of $1,500!! I followed her out to the parking lot to stopped her and explained that often it's just the O2 sensor(s) that throw those codes, and she should have the service department try changing just the forward O2 first to see if that took care of the matter, they could always put the cats on later if needed, but new O2s come with them anyway, so she would have nothing to lose except a big service bill. She thanked me and went back in to talk to service guy again. I don't know what the outcome was but am betting (hoping) she save over $1000 for new cats she never needed. I'll never know. My point though is these shops only want to do whats easiest for them and will pull in the most profit.

 

The same senario happened with my sister with her 96 Legacy but at an Independent in Jersey. Saved her $1,200 and solved the problem, all due to what I learned on this forum about catalytics, O2s, and the codes. And of course I have replaced the O2 sensor on my 96 OBW, 12 years and 225K on her with the same Cats.

 

So I guess I should take this opportunity to thank all you others here for sharing your expertise. This forum has been a goldmine of information, and savings to me.

[msmithmmx]

I almost fell over at the price you were quoted for those bearings. Next Summer I am doing my own, I was thinking a 100 bucks for the bearings several curse words, PB Blaster and a free press rental from autozone.

[rigfennid]

... and a free press rental from autozone.

 

I need to do my right-rear wheel bearing but didn't know AutoZone had presses!! Then again, I'm out in BF Colorado...

 

I'm lucky that I've got a buddy that's been a Ford mechanic for over 25yrs, 'cuz them big diesels are EXPENSIVE to fix. For my Scooby, I've got this board and the vast amounts of knowledge shared by many talented people. A huge thanks to all of you!!

[unibrook]

I just asked Cityside Subaru here outside of Boston how much they would charge to put in a new rear wheel bearing on a 2001 Forester......$340.