M45 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Hi, I just recently got a 1988 Subaru GL-10 wagon in a hurry in Nevada (six hours to find and buy a car). Seems in good shape, has had some maintenance on the engine recently, like timing belt. * Need some rear side trim. * Interior dome light doesn't come on for door open. * Radio and trip computer switch off and completely reset when ignition key is turned off. * Height adjustment seems inoperative; thus the rear suspension is elevated. * Interior hood release puller is missing plastic handle, just has a metal stub. * One hubcap missing. * Emergency blinker hazard lights don't blink. Drove it back to the SF Bay Area, no problems. However after a couple of days it started leaking coolant. I shifted and tightened the clamp since the radiator outlet seemed short. The next day it completely broke and spewed coolant. It seems that the outlet pipe crumbled due to age and maybe overtightening (wire type hose clamp). I was able to limp home two miles in two steps. It did heat up and steam, but gauge never actually went into the red, so I think I'm probably ok. I'm taking the radiator out to replace it, since with plastic side tanks it seem impossible to repair it and repairing an old radiator wouldn't be a good idea from what I read. So I'm wondering whether to get the stock Subaru radiator, appr $220; a Cooling Systems & Flex (CSF) "heavy duty" single row #815 radiator about $150; a CSF #933 about $125; or a two row Radiator Express $135 ? I have it ready to come out except for the engine fan that looks like it will need to be removed to provide clearance. I'm working without a manual since I hate chilton's and I haven't time for Haynes to be ordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 +1 for a 2 row rad, removing the fan is pretty simple, there's 2 flats on the shaft, inboard of the fan which will allow you to hold it still with a 23(?)mm wrench while you undo the retaining bolts (10mm) shouldn't take ya more than a coupla minutes to get that out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 two row radiator. How close to the red did it get? Head gaskets are the #1 achilles heel of these engines. Hate to say it, but just given the story as you told it there is probably a 20-50% chance that youve blown a head gasket (or possibly already HAD one; it WOULD help explain an over pressurized cooling system leading to the rad hose failure you experienced) The Haynes books for these cars is not horribly helpful; it covers all models produced from 1980 thru 1990, including 1600 and 1800 engines, (the OHV and the OHC 1800) so it is sort of a case of "Watering down" like chilton's likes to do. http://www.ch601.org/engines.htm go there and find subaru EA82 parts 1 and 2.. that is PART of the FSM, the engine section and most of the FI section. unfortunately the turbo FI section is largely missing, but its MUCH better to work with than the haynes book. Constant live to radio sounds like possibly a blown fuse or a bad ground wire inside the dash? Hood release cable isnt AWFULLY hard to replace, go junkyard route for a new one.. Hazard flasher unit is right next to the turn signal flasher, buried up under the dash pretty well centered above the driver's feet. Changing my T/S flasher was the single most diffuclt and frustrating job I have done on my car, INCLUDING the headgasket job I did. Best hint I can give you is turn on the turn signal, and feel around for the ticking flasher unit. The one next to it is the hazard flasher. Dome light: does it come on with ANY of the doors?? if not then my guess is bad contact in the "door" position of the switch within the dome light itself; I *think* the door switches only switch ground. Does the dash indicator show you when the doors of the car open? if NOT, then the door switches are the culprit; door switches run the indicator light in the dash AND the dome light both. Good luck, HTH and I hope your headgaskets are OK.. if NOT, then we can take THAT ball and run with it when you get to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Something occurs to me that I haven't seen in my readings. There is a second radiator that appears to be an oil cooler radiator, in front of the engine coolant radiator. The engine coolant radiator is completely separate. I haven't touched the front radiator. When people refer to a "two row radiator", they aren't referring to a radiator with this second oil cooler radiator builtin, are they? I'm surprised I haven't seen any mention of this second front mounted radiator. If I buy a replacement radiator (one row or two row) I'm just replacing the coolant radiator, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 The one in front is most likely part of your A/C system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 When people refer to a "two row radiator", they aren't referring to a radiator with this second oil cooler radiator builtin, are they? The two row radiator has two sets of fins and tubes built into the single unit. If you put it beside a normal single row rad, it will be thicker than the single. Front rad is for A/C. I own an 87 GL-10 (Murphy, the $500 87 T-Wag), and I tell you you absolutely HAVE to get the 2 row radiator. How I wish I would have done that when I first bought my car. Would have saved me sooooooo many head aches. I suffered through several blown coolant hoses, including the one under the turbo, which is a PITA to change, and two or three blown head gaskets before I wised up and got the 2 row rad. That being said, I LOVE this car. It is a blast to drive. PS. Do you have the 3 speed or 4 speed auto tranny? 88 should have the 4, which is not bad at all. Mine had the crappy 3 speed tranny, which is horribly geared - I would be at 4000 RPM's doing 75 on the freeway, which contributed to my head gaskets going mishugina. PPS. If you have the air suspension, and your having issues with it, you might think about ditching it for the standard struts, the car will handle better. I did that swap and the handling is much improved. Get fronts for RX model if you can, as they are a bit stiffer that the standard. PPPS. I'm in Fresno. If you need help and I'm in the area.... well, I'll see what I can do. Plus, I have spare parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy FitzGibbon Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 +1 for a 2 row rad,removing the fan is pretty simple, there's 2 flats on the shaft, inboard of the fan which will allow you to hold it still with a 23(?)mm wrench while you undo the retaining bolts (10mm) shouldn't take ya more than a coupla minutes to get that out... I think the fan shaft might be 22 mm, but I can't remember for sure either. The dome light could just have a burnt out bulb. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobcob Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I think the fan shaft might be 22 mm, but I can't remember for sure either.The dome light could just have a burnt out bulb. Andy Thanks Andy, I wasn't 100% certain, I know I used the biggest wrench I had laying around and it was a 23mm... Seemed a little bit and I guess that's why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45 Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 OK, with a little help from new friends (plural) on this great board, got the radiator out. * The extra radiator in front is indeed the air conditioner radiator. * The wrench size to hold the fan still while undoing nuts on it is indeed 22 mm. * I had to remove the electric fan before the radiator would come out. Just not enough clearance * I cut the engine fan shroud near the bottom between the two attachment points there, pulled it out, and filed the cut smooth. It made getting access to the engine fan much easier. * The radiator shows signs of repair (solder on several channels, so they were probably useless). Good thing to replace the whole unit. Might be a blessing in disguise. * Thanks for the tip to the 89 engine manuals! Yes, no turbo, and that means a different removal install procedure for the radiator (extra steps) but lots of good info there. * I'm still getting used to the car: dome light works: shines in the two outer switch positions, and is off in the middle one, but no interaction with the doors. I don't see how a two-row radiator can fit in there. The clearance to the engine fan was about 3/4 inch and I was rubbing it against the radiator to get it out. Afterwards, I discovered that the four bolts are headless and could be unscrewed to make it easy for the fan to come out. Two-row seems to be the way to go, but will it really fit into the 88 GL-10 Wagon Turbo 1.8L EA82 4spAutoTrans with A/C ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 OK, with a little help from new friends (plural) on this great board, got the radiator out. * The extra radiator in front is indeed the air conditioner radiator. * The wrench size to hold the fan still will undoing nuts on it is indeed 22 mm. * I had to remove the electric fan before the radiator would come out. Just not enough clearance * I cut the engine fan shroud near the bottom between the two attachment points there, pulled it out, and filed the cut smooth. It made getting access to the engine fan much easier. * The radiator shows signs of repair (solder on several channels, so they were probably useless). Good thing to replace the whole unit. Might be a blessing in disguise. * Thanks for the tip to the 89 engine manuals! Yes, no turbo, and that means a different removal install procedure for the radiator (extra steps) but lots of good info there. * I'm still getting used to the car: dome light works: shines in the two outer switch positions, and is off in the middle one, but no interaction with the doors. I don't see how a two-row radiator can fit in there. The clearance to the engine fan was about 3/4 inch and I was rubbing it against the radiator to get it out. Afterwards, I discovered that the four bolts are headless and could be unscrewed to make it easy for the fan to come out. Two-row seems to be the way to go, but will it really fit into the 88 GL-10 Wagon Turbo 1.8L EA82 4spAutoTrans with A/C ? Sorry I forgot to mention that about the 2 row being a tight fit. You can hacksaw about an 8'th of an inch off either the studs that hold the fan to the clutch, or off the ones that hold the clutch assy. to the water pump pulley. It is kinda a pain to have to mod the car for the 2 row to work, but the extra cooling capacity is well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 ... or you could use regular bolts to fasten the fan to the pulley, which, now that I think about it, is what I wished I would have done! make sure to use lock washers or lock tight if you do it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 The radiator I removed. It looks like it has been repaired in the past and the solderings are in a pattern suspiciously like where the engine fan turns. Not sure why this would happen, other than perhaps something pushing the radiator into the engine? I hate to think there might have been front end damage, but I see zero signs of that on my vehicle. Maybe it's a used radiator from another vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 Belt Tension Adjuster Somehow this got bent before I got the vehicle. I can't remove it from the bracket. Both will have to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 Engine Fan Shroud (Cut) I cut this to remove it to get much better access to the engine fan nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 I think I will order the two row rad from RadiatorExpress. I am worried about it fitting and trust the mods suggested by Sonicfrog will work. I hope that with jostling on rough roads the fan won't bang into the radiator. I think I'll hardly ever drive on really rough roads, but it only takes one incident in an isolated location in winter in the Sierras to have a major issue on one's hands. I'm actually looking forward to the possibility of doing some winter driving with the always 4 wheel drive, something I couldn't do before, go places after snowfalls, etc. On the other hand, I also expect to be doing some distance driving in high California heat (90-105 deg) with the air conditioner on at 65+ mph (think turbo) occasionally, and I'm sure the engine will appreciate the extra row then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 IIRC, you can find an EA81 car equipped with AC at the junkyard and pull the electric fan from it, and replace the clutch fan with that electric, if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2coe Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 the 2 row doesn't really take any more space. if you look at the sides oh the 1 row one side is centered and one is to the edge of the the sides, on the 2 rows the rows just are side by side and take up the space front to back of the sides, I'd have to look but I think the side that's close to the fan is the one that is at the edge of the side tank on the radiator any way so you don't lose any space with a 2 row. that's that I have in mine. cheap trick if you dont want to pull the fan just protect the fins with a piece of cardboard when pulling radiator in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45 Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Success! See the followup thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=80272 Thanks to all for posting suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 There is no doubt the fan made contact with the radiator. I would investigate why and fix that problem before installing the new radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 Always glad to help. Wish I had this resource sixteen years ago, I might still have my 1980 GL with the third eye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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