mystery overheating

[95leggy]

hi guys! this is a great forum! but i need some help

 

i got this car about a year ago and i'm pretty new with subarus.

 

could you guys help me out?

 

i have a 1995 legacy L. i think it has the 2.2 engine.

 

i just had the timing belt replaced and water pump and thermostat. now it overheats! i can't drive it anywhere without it overheating and ill need to tow it to where ever it needs to go to get fixed. i wouldnt mind learning how to do the work myself because im short on cash and my brother has the tools i'm sure,but i dont even know where to start!

 

any help would be great!

[wtdash]

Welcome to USMB.

 

Please use the Search function, as it's the quickest way to find answers....plus it's part of 'forum etiquette' - not just here, but on all sites....to look first and then ask.

 

Check out this link: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21681&highlight=Setright+radiator

 

I bet you have air trapped in the system.

 

Good Luck

[95leggy]

Welcome to USMB.

 

Please use the Search function, as it's the quickest way to find answers....plus it's part of 'forum etiquette' - not just here, but on all sites....to look first and then ask.

 

Check out this link: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21681&highlight=Setright+radiator

 

I bet you have air trapped in the system.

 

Good Luck

 

yes, i did that.

 

i know enough to fill the coolant slow and let it bubble. this would have to be a pretty big air-bubble.

 

and just because i'm new on this forum doesn't mean i'm new to forums altogether. but thank you for your input.

[wtdash]

If I didn't say it someone else would re: searching 1st.

 

There's lots of info on overheating here.

 

I didn't see a list what trouble-shooting you've done, the link gives a place to start...w/out having to tear into the motor again.

 

I filled mine slow and still had a big air bubble.

 

I fixed it following the info in the link....and so have others.

[idosubaru]

i just had the timing belt replaced and water pump and thermostat. now it overheat!

okay we can help but we will be far more effective if you can answer as many of these questions as possible. remember, we can't see anything!

 

the first and most important question is did it EVER overheat prior to having this work done? and how long between the work and the overheating? this is huge and will determine how to proceed from here. sorry to sound like a machine but i am an engineer.

 

more very important info - who did the work? Does it loose any coolant? once it starts to get hot does the coolant in the overflow tank bubble when you turn the car off?

 

if it started for the first time ever after the work was done then almost certainly the problem is related to the work. in this case what thermostat was used? it really needs to be a Subaru thermostat. aftermarket thermostats look like something you'd put on your lawnmower compared to the Subaru OEM thermostat, seriously i'm not exaggerating, someone posted pictures of them on here, it's almost funny. second - you have to make sure all the air bubbles are out, this is very, very common on these motors only. older subaru motors...hardly an issue at all, these newer EJ's are difficult in that regard. that's why he's mentioning it in the above post. it's not like a normal engine.

 

and to the "search" idea, that is good, but when it comes to overheating keep in mind the EJ25 and EJ22 are completely different beasts on that issue. you'll see a lot on the EJ25 that isn't as applicable to the Ej22.

[95leggy]

okay we can help but we will be far more effective if you can answer as many of these questions as possible. remember, we can't see anything!

 

the first and most important question is did it EVER overheat prior to having this work done? yes and how long between the work and the overheating? 2 days this is huge and will determine how to proceed from here. sorry to sound like a machine but i am an engineer.

 

more very important info - who did the work? the local dealership Does it loose any coolant? only when it overflows into the tank once it starts to get hot does the coolant in the overflow tank bubble when you turn the car off? it's normally empty by the time i can stop and open the hood

 

if it started for the first time ever after the work was done then almost certainly the problem is related to the work. in this case what thermostat was used? it really needs to be a Subaru thermostat like i said, the work was done at a dealership. aftermarket thermostats look like something you'd put on your lawnmower compared to the Subaru OEM thermostat, seriously i'm not exaggerating, someone posted pictures of them on here, it's almost funny. second - you have to make sure all the air bubbles are out, this is very, very common on these motors only. older subaru motors...hardly an issue at all, these newer EJ's are difficult in that regard. that's why he's mentioning it in the above post. it's not like a normal engine. i know. i sat with my friend who is familiar with such things and we were sure to be very careful about letting out the air. my mechanic friend (ase certified) said that it looked like exhaust was being pushed out of the radiator

 

and to the "search" idea, that is good, but when it comes to overheating keep in mind the EJ25 and EJ22 are completely different beasts on that issue. you'll see a lot on the EJ25 that isn't as applicable to the Ej22.

 

thanks for your help and for being thorough

[idosubaru]

are your fans both coming on when it starts running hot?

 

i'm going to ramble a lot, but the bottom line is that you need to find out where the coolant is going if you're loosing that much that the reservoir is empty when you open the hood.

 

actually i'm confused...you say it only looses coolant when it overflows from the tank, but then you say there's never anything in the tank when you turn it off. if it's overflowing that should mean there's coolant in the tank. when it's "overflowing" - is it bubbling out? that typically means headgasket issues, but may just be overheating for some other reason.

 

that it was overheating prior to the work being done says to me the work was done right, it's probably not an air bubble given that it was overheating before and you've carefully made sure to de-bubblize the thing.

 

if it's loosing coolant that fast you should be able to tell where it's going. is there any leakage or steam at all? with the system full of antifreeze, do you see anything coming out of the exhaust at all when started WITH THE ENGINE COLD.

 

if it is indeed loosing coolant, you should be able to find out where.

 

did the dealership recommend this work based on the overheating/coolant loss? i'm not sure what responsibility they have but if they suggested this work based on the overheating i'd want them to rectify the situation rather than having them just make me throw hundreds of dollars unnecessarily down the toilet.

 

forgetting the coolant loss issue...not knowing wether or not yo'ure really actually loosing coolant - my suggestions are radiator or headgasket. a 95 radiator could easily be clogged. easiest thing to do it replace it. but who wants to dump money into something not knowing if that will fix it? so you have a couple options. remove it and try to flush it out. start the car and get it up to operating temperature. then try and feel the surface of the radiator. if any part of it is cool, then you have blockages. or you could try one of those laser temperature doo-dads, they are great. or ask the shop to test it. you said someone you know has tools, maybe they have one of these laser gadgets, would make this task very simple, or maybe this is a good chance for him (or you) to buy one. they are rather handy at times.

after that heads may need a peak - compression test and leak down test.

[95leggy]

are your fans both coming on when it starts running hot?yes

 

i'm going to ramble a lot, but the bottom line is that you need to find out where the coolant is going if you're loosing that much that the reservoir is empty when you open the hood. no, the overflow resevoir is completely full when i open the hood. the radiator is empty.

 

actually i'm confused...you say it only looses coolant when it overflows from the tank, but then you say there's never anything in the tank when you turn it off. if it's overflowing that should mean there's coolant in the tank. when it's "overflowing" - is it bubbling out? that typically means headgasket issues, but may just be overheating for some other reason.

 

that it was overheating prior to the work being done says to me the work was done right, it's probably not an air bubble given that it was overheating before and you've carefully made sure to de-bubblize the thing.

 

if it's loosing coolant that fast you should be able to tell where it's going. is there any leakage or steam at all? with the system full of antifreeze, do you see anything coming out of the exhaust at all when started WITH THE ENGINE COLD.

 

if it is indeed loosing coolant, you should be able to find out where.

 

did the dealership recommend this work based on the overheating/coolant loss? i'm not sure what responsibility they have but if they suggested this work based on the overheating i'd want them to rectify the situation rather than having them just make me throw hundreds of dollars unnecessarily down the toilet.

 

forgetting the coolant loss issue...not knowing wether or not yo'ure really actually loosing coolant i'm not LEAKING coolant, the radiator is puking it into the overflow tank and the overflow tank fills up and the coolant dumps OUT of the overflow tank.- my suggestions are radiator sorry, i forgot to mention that the radiator was replaced in the spring or headgasket. a 95 radiator could easily be clogged. easiest thing to do it replace it. but who wants to dump money into something not knowing if that will fix it? so you have a couple options. remove it and try to flush it out. start the car and get it up to operating temperature. then try and feel the surface of the radiator. if any part of it is cool, then you have blockages. or you could try one of those laser temperature doo-dads, they are great. or ask the shop to test it. you said someone you know has tools, maybe they have one of these laser gadgets, would make this task very simple, or maybe this is a good chance for him (or you) to buy one. the upper hose on the radiator is hot, the low hose is cool, so the rad and waterpump are doing their jobs they are rather handy at times.

after that heads may need a peak - compression test and leak down test. as far as i can tell, there's no coolant leanks whatsever prior to overheating. after it overheats, there's coolant all over the place because it spashes all of everything because of the overflow.

 

and thanks again

[idosubaru]

dang that sounds bizarre.

can you have subaru check their work since they just did this? i'd sure like to make sure the correct water pump was installed and it and the thermostat were installed properly before jumping to conclusions.

 

can you verify coolant flowing through the radiator in anyway? i'd almost want two long hoses in a bucket. remove the passengers side radiator hose and run a long hose to the bucket and have another hose from the bucket going to the engine. that way you could visually see what's happening....if any coolant is flowing and if there are bubbles all in the coolant.

 

the coolant either isn't flowing, it's heating up and then pushing coolant around. or it's getting exhaust gases in it from a bad head or headgasket (that is my assumption now, but surely you want to rule out easier things).

 

why was the radiator replaced in the spring? overheating or was it leaking? did the car experience any overheating back then? it's very typical to have overheating prior to a radiator replacement.

 

no antifreeze in the oil or oil in the overflow tank or antifreeze coming out on start up (when cold)?

 

i'm thinking more and more about headgasket blowing exhaust gases into the coolant supply. i'd have the engine compression tested and do a leak down test. costs nothing if you have the tools. i would think subaru should do this for free if they did all those repairs at their own suggestion and it didn't fix it. very simple tests. if these all come up negative then the cooling system needs to be inspected...thermostat, water pump, radiator.

[95leggy]

dang that sounds bizarre.

can you have subaru check their work since they just did this? i can, but it needs to be towed 40 miles to get there i'd sure like to make sure the correct water pump was installed and it and the thermostat were installed properly before jumping to conclusions. that's a fear i have too. but i'm low on cash and can't afford to be screwing around a whole lot.

 

can you verify coolant flowing through the radiator in anyway? yes, the lower tube is cool, the upper hose is warm i'd almost want two long hoses in a bucket. remove the passengers side radiator hose and run a long hose to the bucket and have another hose from the bucket going to the engine. that way you could visually see what's happening....if any coolant is flowing and if there are bubbles all in the coolant.

 

the coolant either isn't flowing, it's heating up and then pushing coolant around. or it's getting exhaust gases in it from a bad head or headgasket (that is my assumption now, but surely you want to rule out easier things).

 

why was the radiator replaced in the spring? corrosion hole leaking overheating or was it leaking? did the car experience any overheating back then? no it's very typical to have overheating prior to a radiator replacement.

 

no antifreeze in the oil or oil in the overflow tank or antifreeze coming out on start up (when cold) no?

 

i'm thinking more and more about headgasket blowing exhaust gases into the coolant supply. i'd have the engine compression tested and do a leak down test. costs nothing if you have the tools. i would think subaru should do this for free if they did all those repairs at their own suggestion and it didn't fix it. very simple tests. if these all come up negative then the cooling system needs to be inspected...thermostat, water pump, radiator.

 

thanks

[zstalker]

it doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned this, but if all your coolant is getting pushed out into (and out of) the overflow, the first think I'd check, and probably replace, is the radiator cap. With a failed radiator cap, the coolant is free to come on out whenever it chooses. It will come out into the overflow, then the radiator will have less coolant. not only that, but if the cap isn't holding pressure, the boiling point of the coolant is significantly lower than with a good one. The solution is many times the simplest one, and often overlooked.....just my suggestion.

oh, by the way, probably replace it with a Subaru cap, if you can...

~Erik~

[WAWalker]

If you had this overheating problem before the work was done..........Why was the overheating problem diagnoised before replacing the t-belt, w/p, and t-stat?

 

Sounds like the typical symptomes of blown head gaskets.