Success! was Need help: fan clearance on EA82 radiator

[M45]

OK, bad news, the radiator fits in my 88 I've had two weeks, but can't put the engine fan in, can't even put the electric fan in. No room. The engine fan can't clear the nub of the water pump shaft to get mounted on the water pump shaft. Even if the engine fan could be mounted, it would have about 2 mm clearance, which is not enough to allow for frame flex and engine movement.

 

I am going to try to resolve this ASAP, because I should try to get it smogged and registered by Monday deadline if I can.

 

The electric fan doesn't fit, though it nearly does. It goes all the way in, except for a last half inch or so where the bottom of the bracket hits the (yellow) oil filter. The bracket can be bent, and/or ground away, I think, to get it to fit, but that may make changing the oil filter a little more difficult, but not impossible.

 

 

For the engine fan, there are some possible solutions that I can envisage, none of them easy. It would be most desirable to retain use of the engine fan.

 

0) I don't want to return the radiator. It is a two row all metal one, a vast improvement over the plastic single row one previously installed that had crumbled (fit aside). The guy at the shop was helpful and gave me a price break on it.

 

 

1) The engine fan has a longer shaft than necessary. If I could find a fan that had a shorter shaft, by about 1/2 inch, there would still be clearance between it and the engine.

 

 

1b) I don't think there is any economic way to cut and rejoin the shaft and maintain a strong component.

 

1c) I may try taking it in (by bicycle) to as many auto dealer parts departments as I can find open on a Saturday, to see if any may have a fan with a shorter shaft and the same bolt pattern. Does anyone know of a fan that would fit?

 

2) If the water pump shaft could be replaced with one about 1/2 inch shorter, that would help, but I doubt that is possible. I think the shaft is integral to the pump and looks to be made of hardened alloy, hence cutting and rejoining is not possible.

 

3) There are rubber grommets with a metal inner collar that the bolts pass through the metal frame to the radiator. On the inside of the frame, there is about 5/16 inch of rubber that could be cutoff and a thin rubber washer used. That would gain about 1/4 inch. I don't think I could gain the equivalent on the bottom, so the gain at the fan bolts would be about half, due to the angle effect, so say 1/8 inch.

 

 

4) The bolts on the radiator side of the fan protrude about 1/8 inch past the nuts. Those could be ground down.

 

5) The engine fan could be left off, but the pulley kept bolted on so that the water pump turns. The fan could be replaced with an electric fan, but it would have to be a very thin one. For example a duplicate of the existing electric fan would be too thick by over an inch.

 

5b) If I did get a very thin fan, I'd still have to rig up some electric relays with switches and rig power. If the switch is dash mounted, then it is too easy to forget to turn on. If the switch is simply a relay piggybacked on the ignition circuit, then the fan would be on all the time, which might not be best. If I connected the fan power in parallel with the electric fan, it might overtax that circuit and it kind of makes the arrangement "all or nothing", a bit risky. I'd rather not go this route if I can avoid it, since it seems tricky and riskier.

 

6) I could take a sledge hammer to the top of the front frame cross member and maybe bash it in a quarter inch or a half inch. It would be almost impossible to do that to the bottom, due to a lack of clearance. This would have unknown effects on the strength of the frame and might shift some other things out of alignment. I don't have a chain or solid distant attachment point to be able to pull either member out the fraction of an inch. I don't see how I could get leverage to pry them out. Anyway, this approach seems like a kind of caveman desperation ploy.

 

Prior thread about radiator coming out: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=80104

 

Old rad (came with car). Notice damage and repairs where engine fan would be.

• Any other ideas for gaining clearance?
  
• How much flex in the frame and the engine mounts would there be?
  
• How much clearance do I need?

[Andy FitzGibbon]

I think there are two different lengths of water pump shaft available. Not sure, though, so hopefully somebody who knows for sure will come along.

Good luck,

Andy

[86subaru]

find a xt i think the shaft is shorter ,i had to change mine when i replaced the radiator in my 88 turbo, and also there might be 5 blade fan from the xt , i think i have what you looking for ,

[Numbchux]

measure the approximate diameter of your stock fan (the blades...). go to your favorite auto parts store. they'll have a few generic thin electric radiator fans for ~$40. wire it in place of the factory electric fan so it will function just like the stock one did (thermo switch on the radiator, and override when you turn on the A/C, if applicable).

 

with a crappy, mud-caked single row radiator in either of my lifted wagons. the stock electric fan was plenty to keep the engine cool. with a nice, 2-row radiator, and an aftermarket fan, you'll be set. AND, with the removal of the clutch fan, you'll gain a little power and mileage too.

[DaveT]

Check that the radiator is all the way forward at the top. When installinmg CSF 2 row radiators, I have had to cut away a few places on the front sheet metal so the radiator tanks wouldn't hit. If you take the top bolts out, look in the hole - the flange of the radiator should be touching the back of the bumper.

 

The fan *just* fits, sometimes I had to cut the 4 fan studs a bit shorter, but no other problems. The fan belts will just fit between the radiator and the fan when putting them into place.

 

I have had to do this to all 4 of the 3AT 4WD wagons I have owned.

[M45]

Success! I didn't have to buy any fans or pumps. I ran it for ten minutes yesterday and will road test and smog check and register today (assuming nothing new crops up).

 

It turned out that the radiator wasn't getting seated correctly in the bottom where the posts are resting inside bushings that sit in two holes in the frame. That meant that the top was too high and was hitting the front frame crossmember. Thanks to DaveT for providing the germ of the idea that made me look the third time and finally figure it out. Once it was seated properly, then the clearances were all good.

 

Of course there are a hundred and one fiddly little bits to take care of. For example the old hose on the driver's side refused to go onto the radiator, and it needed to be cut anyway since the old radiator had a straight pipe and this one had an upward bend. So I got a hose from the parts store and it fit the radiator perfectly. However, it was too large for the water pump outlet! (Smaller pipe! Very strange.) It was so loose it wobbled. So back to the store to get a band clamp, since I figured that would provide a larger sealing area. The band clamp did the job, but I'll have to see how it reacts tomorrow after a hill climp up 1800 feet through the Santa Cruz mountains, in preparation for a road trip to the Eastern Sierras this weekend.

 

Many thanks to all who took time to help out with comments on the two threads.

[john in KY]

I think there are two different lengths of water pump shaft available. Not sure, though, so hopefully somebody who knows for sure will come along.

Good luck,

Andy

 

 

Very true. Someone in the past installed the wrong water pump. All the turbo engines take the shorter pump. If all the belts and pulleys line up, this means someone has also swapped these parts and you need to replace them with parts from a turbo engine.