I)arkZrobe Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Just out of Curiosity has anyone tried using E-85 Fuel on there subarus? Are there subarus that use E-85 Fuel? And on the Subarus that don't have that listed has anyone tried it on them? I have no plans on using E-85 fuel but I have heard stories of people using it on cars that are not made for that fuel and it working with no noticeable damage. I was just wanting to see if any of you have tried it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 There is a kid at work who is running it in his 97ish outback. He said the computer must have "figured it out" cause it seems to run fine. I'd be interested in the fuel economy running that stuff. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I think often vehicles are capable of running this fuel even if it's not a 'flex fuel vehicle' (FFV) or whatever they're calling them, maybe that's just what Ford was calling them. Some of the issue may come down to materials compatibility, such as the fuel tank, fuel lines, injectors, etc, as to if they can handle that much ethanol long term. Some boat owners have had issues with fiberglass fuel tanks with gasoline containing ethanol; not that your typical vehicle would have such a problem these days. Fuel economy on a vehicle not intended to run more than 10% ethanol (most soobs) might not be as good as an FFV vehicle whose ECU may be better able to use the energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 FFV fule economy is crap to begin with, at 30 less or more (EPA figures available on EPA site). It can actually cost more to use e85. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/alternativefuels/articles/120863/article.html The computer is calibrated differently, there are acouple of differnt sensors, and there are other meaterials used in the fuel system. Using e85 in a car that has never had it before is very brave, as its a solvent and can flood the fuel system with dirt. Why anybody wants to use e85 is beyond me, as its just as expensve as gas when the fuel differnce is taken in, and is a very water hungry process. The one side effect no one has thought of is that it has driven up the price of corn and all corn byproducts, which has raised the cost of food. I think the search function may pick it up as ethanol, but this subject has been bought up many times http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11174/tech-stuff-ethanol-promises-ethanol-economics-page6.html e85 cars i think are also excused from the corrected epa mpg esitamtes (i could be wrong) so they are even higher then they should be. Auto mfgs get tax breaks for making e85 cars, weather the customer ever uses e85 or not. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 This is what i was looking for http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml and remeber these are vehicals with puters calibrated to run this stuff at their highest effecincy. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The point of E85 is not that it's cheaper (it is cheaper per gallon, but your cost per mile is about the same as gas), but that it burns cleaner than gas, and it reduces our dependence on petroleum products. I run B20 (20% biodeisel) in my truck, not cuz it's cheap (it's about 3 cents more than regular diesel) but #1 that's 20% less petroleum I use, and #2 due to the newer low sulfur diesel, it's added lubrication for my expensive injector pump. I filled my Legacy with E10 (http://www.sqbiofuels.com/retail2_fuels.htm) on Friday, didn't notice any change in fuel economy, but my fuel gauge started working again. E10 is nice since for one it's 10% alcohol, so most cars can run it, plus it acts as an octane booster, and think of how much less gasoline we'd use if all our fuel was 10% ethanol (or biodiesel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstwagon Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Why is it a benefit to burn food instead of gasoline? It's not even cleaner as it creates more pollution in it's production then gasoline. E85 is a joke. Here in Canada, the government is handing out big rebates for people who buy flexFuel vehicles and you can't even buy E85 here. Politically correct enviro nonsense at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarupusher Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I would like it if everybody burned food instead of fuel to commute. I am the lone biker that commutes from the exurbs to the train station in my area. 1 Power Bar per 7 mile trip. That being said, E85 driving up the price of corn is fallacious. The main reason why your food is more expensive is that the petro products used to fertilize it and transport it have gone right up with the prices at the pump. They are estimating this will be the largest corn harvest in US history and the prices will spiral down next year. Other plant sources of ethanol are also a few years away from helping the production. Big oil is actively scaring consumers with the food for fuel arguement but secretly working on ethanol production too. They know that there is a finite amount of oil to be pumped out of the ground (and sand in Canada). I do have a flexible fuel Chevy and the fuel delivery systems are supposedly armored against ethanol corrosion and the computers are programmed to optimize igniton when E85 is present. The Subaru fuel system probably can compensate for the higher octane but will eventually corrode. All relatively new cars can burn E10 with no long term problems. E10 is a much better oxygenator blend than the crap that California poisoned its groundwater supply with last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Much gasoline does now contain 10% ethanol whether there is a label on the pump or not, as many states outlawed MTBE, the stuff that was previously used that someone mentioned that contaminates ground water. There are some areas left where you can get gas that doesn't contain ethanol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I)arkZrobe Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 Here in Colorado Springs we have E-10 for most of the year and during the summer for some reason they switch to 100% Gasoline. I have actually noticed I get better milage on E-10 so I hate when they switch over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Combustion of fuel will always end up as some form of emissions coming out the tailpipe. While the emissions of biodiesel and ethanol may be on par with, or worse than petroleum in some areas, the carbon-based emissions are not introducing new carbon into our atmosphere. By burning bio-based fuels, carbon is being re-used as opposed to introduced. This is a MUST in the ongoing debate on how to manage climate change, and lower our dependence on foreign oil. The key is being carbon-neutral. Bio-based fuels are carbon neutral, not counting the production process. Now when these bio-based fuels can be created without the use of coal-powered electricity, or raw material transport by petro powered vehicles, then it will truly be carbon neutral. And that is the key to minimizing greenhouse gas emissions. Blah Blah Blah, I'm just an environmental scientist. Just a glorified hippie to most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulwnkl Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Bio-based fuels are carbon neutral, not counting the production process. There are also perpetual motion machines everywhere, so long as you don't count the input energy needed to keep them going. How can the Earth NOT be carbon neutral? No carbon (no significant carbon, anyway) is coming to Earth from outer space, so then by definition ALL fuels except some varieties of fusion that would create it are carbon neutral. If that changes such that there IS significant carbon coming to Earth from outer space, then the foolishness of the concept of carbon neutrality would be further obviated. It's just a question of your perspective. I'm always amused by the concept that climate change is abnormal. Trying to lock the Earth to the climate, technology, and norms of 1746 or any other arbitrary date (except where that's not convenient to those wanting to do it) is just foolishness. One does the best one can with what one has and doesn't ignore all the bad side effects of surface-glamour alternatives just for the sake of advancing an arbitrary choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarupusher Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Carbon neutral is defined by the impact on civilzation. If we keep liberating more locked up carbon into our atmosphere, then the temperature goes up. If humans can live in a Jurassic climate and sustain the current population growth, then global warming is not an issue. The previous posts definition of the carbon neutral tally for earth is also true for Venus (a planet which once had oceans before the greenhouse effect went wild). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulwnkl Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 You seem to be suggesting that Venus was once inhabited by people who destroyed their entire planet by using one type of solar energy vs. another. That's just ludicrous. You CANNOT show that burning bio-based fuels extracted from under the ground instead of on top of it are causing a greater degree of climate change than would be effected by the other. You can only show that climate changes. The Earth's climate has changed significantly in BOTH directions multiple times both before and after people were even here. Who was responsible for burning all those sub-surface fuels and destroying themselves then, the dinosaurs? Open your eyes to the whole picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Do you two know "BDG73" :confused: :lol: . Later, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 uranus. me out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarupusher Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 Lack of life and thus no locking up of carbon was the point I was making about Venus. Boy did I go on a tangent. Liberate all the carbon that has been locked in the ground by life and the CO2 in the atmosphere goes up and the planet gets warmer. Our planet is currently in an ice age compared to most of its geologic history. Maybe the planet would have melted everything in a few thousand years before swinging back, maybe not. The result is that we have to adapt to temperature changes in decades instead of centuries. I am for keeping the carbon buried in the ground and use as much fuel as possible from what we grow on the surface. E85 burning hybrid Subarus are what I am looking forward to in the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I)arkZrobe Posted October 9, 2007 Author Share Posted October 9, 2007 Wow my thread went from a legitimate question of E-85 fuel, to the life of venus... A little part of me just died...:-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulwnkl Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Sorry about that, man. No, I haven't tried it. We don't have a publicly accessible source here. I'd have thought that for optimal operation you'd need a different fuel mapping in the ECU, but it might run OK on a gasoline map. Maybe the stock maps have enough latitude in them to compensate based on O2 senson feedback? If you end up trying it I'd be interested to hear your experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I)arkZrobe Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Naw just bought the car and have no plan on testing something that could ruin my engine... Maybe if I had more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towel Rail Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Wow my thread went from a legitimate question of E-85 fuel, to the life of venus... A little part of me just died...:-\ It's a hot-button issue. Myself, I'm not planning to switch until a) I own a vehicle specifically set up for it and the cost of running it is reasonable. Between EFI, PCV, EGR, catalytic converters, and the computerized ignition, my car is running clean enough for my conscience. - Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudd Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Soooo.... ethanol is gas with alcohol in it, and dry gas is just alcohol. So this must mean we people in the northeast burning 10% ethanol don't need to worry about our gas lines freezing up anymore and we can forget about adding Heet ever again. One good thing about the stuff I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Soooo.... ethanol is gas with alcohol in it, and dry gas is just alcohol. So this must mean we people in the northeast burning 10% ethanol don't need to worry about our gas lines freezing up anymore and we can forget about adding Heet ever again. One good thing about the stuff I guess. Hmmm, that's a good point, I never thought about that. I wonder if it actually works that way. That would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I believe so. The inexpensive 'dry gas' is typically methanol, and the 'high end' dry gas is isopropyl alcohol. Ethanol obviously mixes with water, i.e. liquors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howards11 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Here in Philadelphia we run up to 10% ethanol year round. I don't think there is a E85 station in this area. I still add some gas line antifreeze when it gets really cold around here (like now). Seems to make starting easier; there is less strain on the battery. ~Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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