mr1t5abcde Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I have a 2000 Subaru with "some electrical issues, These are the symptoms: First, my light switch ONLY turns on my head lights. To get my running lights to come on, I have to turn on my parking lights (the switch on top of the steering column). My break lights, when I depress my break peddle, it lights up all of my running lights along with the break lights. Now with the lights on, and my parking lights on, my ABS warning light comes on, and disables my cruises control. I borrowed a manual from the library with no real trouble shooting ability. Can any one help please? Thank you :banghead: Thank you to ShawnW for getting me on to the CORRECT path. Greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hi mr1t5abcde and ! First, yes, on '00obw, the fog lamps work ONLY when the low beam headlamps are illuminated. They do not work when the parking lamps are on or when the high beams are on. There is an article on endwrench.com about this fact. I too have an '00obw. I had a recent issue with ABS which turned out to be a poor ground at the power steering reservour bracket. The other stuff you posted about lights sounds odd; I don't know maybe a bad ground or blown fuse somewhere? Either of those can cause odd things in lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 For the taillight problem check fuses 7 and 12 in the main panel under the hood to see if they are ok. If they are good then check the relay for them in the same panel. I suspect that the running lights are lighting up with the brake lights because there is a broken filament in one of the brake lights. A filament for the running lights is touching the brake light filament. Try replacing the lights in the rear to see if that corrects that trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 For the taillight problem check fuses 7 and 12 in the main panel under the hood to see if they are ok. If they are good then check the relay for them in the same panel. I suspect that the running lights are lighting up with the brake lights because there is a broken filament in one of the brake lights. A filament for the running lights is touching the brake light filament. Try replacing the lights in the rear to see if that corrects that trouble. Wht he said about the filament. Remove one light at a time and see when the problem disapears. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1t5abcde Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Ok Gentleman, I think that the information that I gave might been misleading, this is right out of the owner’s manual. Headlights To turn on the headlights, turn on knob at the end of the turn signal switch lever First position Parking lights, instrument panel illumination, tail lights and license plate lights are on. Second position Headlights, parking lights, instrument panel illumination, tail lights and license plate lights are on Here is what is happening, I turn on my head lights on, and the only thing that comes on are my headlights and my instrument panel illumination. NO parking lights, NO tail lights and license plate lights. To get my parking lights, tail lights and license plate lights to come on I have to turn on my parking light switch. With both parking light switch and the headlight switch turned on, my ABS warning light comes on, and disables my cruise control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Ew that doesn't sound good. Sounds like a potential wiring issue to me. Have you checked for any blown fuses? I might look later to see if the same fuse feeds the drain battery switch and the parking lamps normally. Maybe I would read the ABS code(s) to see if that reveals anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 That sounds like a fuse, check at the fuse block first. Does the virgin switch on top of the steering column operate? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1t5abcde Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 I have checked my fuses, and they are all working. The "parking light switch" works that is how I get my running lights to come on. Any other suggestions? Thanks so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 There may be a grounding problem causing this trouble. To see if that is so you could make a ground jumper and tie one end to the negative side of the battery. Then place the other end of the jumper on suspected bad ground points. If the trouble clears you know the area to look for a bad ground. The trouble may be in the dash area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1t5abcde Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 Cougar, Where would I connect the grounds to? The lights? The fuse box? The headlight/ turn signal switch? I am not that good with electricty. The basics i can understand. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 ok lets back up a bit. there is an illumination relay that operates the parking lights. ANother possability is a bad combination switch. The main switch grounds out the coil for the illumination relay. The current then goes through the parking light switch, to the 10 amp fuse, then gets distrubuted to all the marker lights. What I would do is find the 10 amp fuse and pull it. With the switch off, there should be no voltage on either side of the fuse. Turn on the switch. Now there whould be voltage at one side of the fuse (with the car on of course). FYI: If the parking light switch is "on", the illumination relay is bypassed, and the parking lights will come on. So you have a bad illumination Relay. (I need to start traveleing with my haynes manual it seems so I can answer these things quicker). nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 (I need to start traveleing with my haynes manual it seems so I can answer these things quicker). nipper are you on the road or are you suggesting you could plan a trip traveling from one repair to the next.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 are you on the road or are you suggesting you could plan a trip traveling from one repair to the next.?? hehehe i just got home. wed/thur is my weekend, when i get to see the other half. Sadly i get to see the other half in New Jersey (and we all know how NY'ers love NJ ) nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 hehehe i just got home. wed/thur is my weekend, when i get to see the other half. Sadly i get to see the other half in New Jersey (and we all know how NY'ers love NJ ) nipper let's see , which is better, ny alone or nj with the other half....????? hmmmmmm... i know what i'd choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 let's see , which is better, ny alone or nj with the other half....????? hmmmmmm... i know what i'd choose. pennsylvania? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1t5abcde Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 Gentlemen, johnceggleston and nipper, PLEASE, I need help with my electrical . . . not your travels?!?!? thank you. Nipper you have provided the most information. I gather you like Hayes manual? Where would i find the illumination relay within the manual? is there a year specific manual for 2000 Outback's. What would be next in line to check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Cougar, Where would I connect the grounds to? The lights? The fuse box? The headlight/ turn signal switch? I am not that good with electricty. The basics i can understand. thanks The grounded jumper lead is used to replace any suspected bad ground point, which is the frame and body of the car usually. Subaru uses a switched ground to turn on lights usually. This means power is tied to the lights, sometimes via a relay, and the switch controlled by the driver makes contact to ground in order to turn on the lights. You would not want to tie a ground jumper to the fuse box area since that is the HOT side of the circuit and you would short out whatever you tied to. If there is a bad ground somewhere then by placing the ground jumper in the car body area that has the bad ground will usually correct the trouble and you then know were to look for the trouble. If your brakes lights are working ok then the grounding in the rear area is probably ok. Unforunately I do not have access to my service data right now to look over the taillight circuit and won't have them until Wednesday. The problem problem my be with the illumination module as Nipper suggested. If you haven't checked the fuses under the hood then check those for a bad fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrand Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 OK, my 2 cents here. As an engineer who has worked in the electrical test business for almost 25 year, but learned my basic electricity between the ages of 8 and 10, I have a mild little ranting to do. thef ear and misconception of electricity has probabaly cost more people time, money and even thier lives that a simple approach of what to do-and not do-in trouble shooting. OK, in your case, dealing wih 12 Volts is safe, and the main thing to remember when dealing with electricity is it is like water flowing through a pipe(sort of) the electricity flows from a high elevation (potential) to a low elevation(many call ground) and then the battery(or alternator or generator) acts as a "pump" to bring the leectricity9water0 back to the high elevation. So if a wire goets broken, no electricity flow and no lights9or horn or stereeo orwhat ever you are trying to power as no current can flow, and it you get a short, wiring touches something it isnt suppoesed to, current flows in apath it isnt supposed to and causes current low to ground or what ever. At all costs if the simple stuff doent solve buy or borrow a wiring diagram-and follow the "pipes' to see ehare the elecricity should flow. OK, FIRST check all fuses related to the ciruits that are having prolems. And dont forget there are fuses in addition to those under the dash, at least in my 91 Legacy there is an additional fuse box in the engine compartment. If they are all OK(I suspect they may not be) check your bulbsto make sure they are good. Don't relay on visible inspection, use an ohmeter. Aslo check for proper power AAD ground connections at your socket-if you don't have a multimeter purchase one-they can be had very cheaply-granted there is someyou get what you pay for but I would take having a 5 buck multimeter for trouble shooting lighting problems over waiting till next pay check to buy a 190 dollar Fluke model. Here is a link on how to use. As has been said earlier, the tail/stop lights are 2 filimants with seperate sources connected to a common "ground"., if that ground connection is broken one circuit will feedthe other. LMy bet is a blown fuse and orabad combo switch. Butthat is a guess. http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/a/aa063001a.htm Let us know hwat you find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1t5abcde Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 OK, my 2 cents here. As an engineer who has worked in the electrical test business for almost 25 year, but learned my basic electricity between the ages of 8 and 10, I have a mild little ranting to do. thef ear and misconception of electricity has probabaly cost more people time, money and even thier lives that a simple approach of what to do-and not do-in trouble shooting. OK, in your case, dealing wih 12 Volts is safe, and the main thing to remember when dealing with electricity is it is like water flowing through a pipe(sort of) the electricity flows from a high elevation (potential) to a low elevation(many call ground) and then the battery(or alternator or generator) acts as a "pump" to bring the leectricity9water0 back to the high elevation. So if a wire goets broken, no electricity flow and no lights9or horn or stereeo orwhat ever you are trying to power as no current can flow, and it you get a short, wiring touches something it isnt suppoesed to, current flows in apath it isnt supposed to and causes current low to ground or what ever. At all costs if the simple stuff doent solve buy or borrow a wiring diagram-and follow the "pipes' to see ehare the elecricity should flow. OK, FIRST check all fuses related to the ciruits that are having prolems. And dont forget there are fuses in addition to those under the dash, at least in my 91 Legacy there is an additional fuse box in the engine compartment. If they are all OK(I suspect they may not be) check your bulbsto make sure they are good. Don't relay on visible inspection, use an ohmeter. Aslo check for proper power AAD ground connections at your socket-if you don't have a multimeter purchase one-they can be had very cheaply-granted there is someyou get what you pay for but I would take having a 5 buck multimeter for trouble shooting lighting problems over waiting till next pay check to buy a 190 dollar Fluke model. Here is a link on how to use. As has been said earlier, the tail/stop lights are 2 filimants with seperate sources connected to a common "ground"., if that ground connection is broken one circuit will feedthe other. LMy bet is a blown fuse and orabad combo switch. Butthat is a guess. http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/a/aa063001a.htm Let us know hwat you find out To everyone that helped . . . THANK YOU:clap: I finaly took my car to the garage. I found out that that it had three things wrong, and they were WAY over my head:-\ First my headlight switch was bad second there was a computer that went bad and the last was a short in the tail lights! I greatly appreciate everyones help Thank you:headbang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestboy Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 You sure you were not taken for a ride? How should a computer problem cause a bulb not lighting? Electricity goes from battery to relay,switch, bulb and back, the ECU does not control the lights. Glad he didn't change the blinker oil. :clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Thanks for the update and glad you got it fixed. You're welcome for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I realize that this might not have applied to the original poster's problem, and that his troubles have been resolved, but anyone reading this thread due to tail light problems may want to also read http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/ErraticInsideNov07EW.pdf . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1t5abcde Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 You sure you were not taken for a ride? How should a computer problem cause a bulb not lighting? Electricity goes from battery to relay,switch, bulb and back, the ECU does not control the lights. Glad he didn't change the blinker oil. :clap: The computer they replaced was for the cruise control. When I truned my lights on, and my parking lights on to drive at night, my ABS warning light would come on and shut off my cruise control. No, I do not think I was taken for a ride Thank you I apperciate your information. I talked it over with the boss of the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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