Plz Confirm - Is it the Duty C or rear clutches?

[wtdash]

'90 Legacy, AT, AWD. Swapped in a '91 Turbo AT, AWD, a few months back. (Yes, I also swapped in the rear 3.9VLSD.)

 

The car shifts fine and runs great w/the 'new' tranny, but it has AWD issues, which look a lot like a bad Duty C solenoid.

 

Symptoms:

1. Torque Bind (TB) - Occasionally. If the front wheels slip when accelerating, there's a slight delay before the rear wheels kick-in. If I then make a turn, TB is apparent. However, if I accelerate slowly/easily (no slip), and then make a turn or pull into my parking space @ work, there is no TB.

2. AT Fluid flushed - No difference.

3. FWD fuse installed = No TB.

4. Code from tranny indicates Duty-C Solenoid: 2-4.

 

I've swapped in the Turbo's TCU and didn't notice any difference - either in TB or the delay.

 

I still have the '90's tranny, and plan on swapping in its rear hub section along w/a new Duty C.

 

Feedback, please!

[johnceggleston]

that should take care of it. i would also drain and refill again, can't hurt. did you put in new fluid when you installed the trans.

 

it sounds like you have an intermittent bad duty c. if it was always bad, the fuse would not help. have you gotten the flashing AT TEMP light at start up (or power light)?

 

the only other precaution you might consider is the clutch plates. how many miles on the running trans and how many miles on the spare/bad trans. did it have torque bind when you pulled the bad trans? if not those parts should be good.

 

you might at least look at the plates and compare with the others while you have it out. if one set looks better or if they both look bad, you might swap in different and/or new clutch plates. once the unit is open, checking the plates is easy, a snap ring.

[ericem]

Definitely sounds like a bad clutch.

[nipper]

CLutch pack. If it was the solenoid, the FWD fuse would have no affect. YOu can be getting a DUty code because the valve is sticking, or not responding as it should do to an internal issues.

 

Either way, (if this was a newer car) I would suggest a new solenoid and clutch pack. On a tranny this old a used tranny may be a better choice. How many miles on it?

 

You can try the lucas additive as a last ditch attempt for a easy repair.

 

nipper

[wtdash]

have you gotten the flashing AT TEMP light at start up (or power light)?.

 

Yes, on occasion.

 

did it have torque bind when you pulled the bad trans? if not those parts should be good.

 

No TB on the old trans. The AWD worked fine.

[wtdash]

Miles were 150K+..... According to the seller (the donor car was long gone), the car it came out of had a grimy looking engine, but the tranny looked comparatively clean/'new'/rebuilt, .....so either I got screwed over, or when they rebuilt the transmission they didn't rebuild the clutches??:-\ Seems I read that some shops may consider that a separate job??

 

Regardless, I guess I've got more AT/AWD fun ahead.

 

I'll start looking but if anyone has a link to a write-up on whether this can be done w/out completely removing the tranny, please let me know.

 

 

Thanks for the info guys...It's appreciated!

[idosubaru]

good news! the clutches and duty C can easily be done in the car.

[wtdash]

UPDATE:

 

Thanks to USMB members (again ), I determined this was the clutches in the rear transfer case.

 

As a interim fix -and because it sounded cool :cool: - I installed the 4WD diff lock switch this fall and it made the 4WD work great, esp. since we've had near record snowfall this winter. Here's a link to the switch:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50264

 

Since I still had my old tranny, I used its parts to fix the one I installed last summer.

 

I took my old tranny apart and its output hub had the grooves that this and other posts showed:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=78467&page=6

 

I filed down the grooves.

 

I bought a new Duty C and gaskets and installed in the housing of my old tranny.

 

Finally had an above freezing day (unheated garage) and tore it all apart....here's another post w/instructions:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81591&highlight=transfer+clutch

 

This was not as tough a job as I feared, BUT many of these items were removed last summer when I swapped trannies, so the nuts/bolts were easy to remove. This car also has very little rust, which makes it much easier. Took about 4 hours, since I'd already 'prepped' the rear housing and Duty C, and just swapped parts. The output hub had grooves worse than the original, so I thought I was on the right path.

 

The result? So far, so good. I found some snow and when I punched it had instant traction @ both ends. NO DELAY!!

 

Before, I had a 1-2 second delay before the rear-end would kick in, which was a real drag (pun intended ).

 

Suggestion to anyone swapping in a used tranny, or even a rebuilt one, is to check the rear transfer clutches/hub and replace the Duty C....sure wish I had read up on it before I'd swapped mine!....Live and learn!

Thanks again USMB!

[idosubaru]

awesome - thanks for the update and glad everything is going well!

 

wonder if there's a thread in the USRM detailing these links and efforts? replacing the rear clutch packs and Duty C are common enough that it should be - but i've yet to do it (crossing fingers....).

[nipper]

awesome - thanks for the update and glad everything is going well!

 

wonder if there's a thread in the USRM detailing these links and efforts? replacing the rear clutch packs and Duty C are common enough that it should be - but i've yet to do it (crossing fingers....).

 

*Murphy knocks on grossgary door alonw tih his friend Mr Fate*

 

 

nipper

[Bigbusa]

Interesting reading on all those links. My 180k 96 obs shudders when I make a slow tight turn. It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal though. It's not like I'm constantly driving on bare tar & doing tight circles. When I'm on a snowy road and I floor it... all 4 wheels immediately dig in. No lag.

 

I do have 2 different brands of same sized tires (plenty of tread left on all) on the front and rear and I have no idea how long my ATF has been in my tranny.

 

I guess I should buy 4 brand new tires and have my ATF flushed.

[nipper]

Interesting reading on all those links. My 180k 96 obs shudders when I make a slow tight turn. It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal though. It's not like I'm constantly driving on bare tar & doing tight circles. When I'm on a snowy road and I floor it... all 4 wheels immediately dig in. No lag.

 

I do have 2 different brands of same sized tires (plenty of tread left on all) on the front and rear and I have no idea how long my ATF has been in my tranny.

 

I guess I should buy 4 brand new tires and have my ATF flushed.

 

Yup.

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

I guess I should buy 4 brand new tires and have my ATF flushed.

i would do that in reverse order, i think you'll find the ATF change may help significantly unless the tires have a significant size difference or have wear causing the same.