Buying a Used Engine From Japan

[Subarule]

I thought I would post this for those who may not be aware of getting a lower milage used engine instead of a rebuilt or one from a wrecking yard. I went this route in spring of 2000 and am so happy I did. The engine I got has been flawless (a carbed, '86, 1800 for a 4 X4 GL wagon).

 

I don't have any affiliation with this outfit (my shop ordered & installed mine and I don't know who they use) but I liked the explanation of how/why used engines from Japan are so available.

 

http://www.enginereplacement.com/htdocs/import.htm

 

Their link to request a used Subaru engine:

 

http://www.enginereplacement.com/htdocs/subaru.htm

 

Subarule

[89Ru]

I agree, bought one of these low-mileage creampuffs unseen from an outfit in Texas in 2002. 80k later, still running.

 

Wish my 5-year old sieve radiator was as good :-p

[Ross]

Sure, its the easy route to take, but it is risky. For every sound second hand engine/car coming out of Japan, there are many unsound ones. Especially with '80s stuff. What you have to realise is that while these engines may have only done 80,000kms, they have often done this without ANY type of servicing at all.

 

A large part of our car population in New Zealand is second hand imports from Japan, and nowdays these tend to be OK for the most part, since the newer vehicles have been designed to do 100,000kms without needing a service..... but in the '80s and early '90s, there were a lot of people round here getting stung by purchasing cars/engines that went for 10,000kms then self destructed.

 

How much do you pay for a 2nd hand Jap engine? These motors are so cheap and easy to recondition, isn't it worth doing a recond and knowing you have an engine that will last as long as you want it to.... I certainly think so.

[ivantruckman]

the japanese have a high tax put on an older vehicles, the older the vehicle is the more expensive it is to drive, after three years you have to get a government inspection , than every year after that, its kinda like of certifing a cessna, a very exhaustive inspection, and very costly, they say its actually cheaper to buy a new vehicle than to get an inspection every year, on avarage they keep their cars for 4 years. in japan the land is so expensive that they cant have vast junkyards, and their isnt a market for used cars or older parts, so they cut them up and ship them all over the world

[Subarule]

Sure, its the easy route to take, but it is risky. For every sound second hand engine/car coming out of Japan, there are many unsound ones. Especially with '80s stuff. What you have to realise is that while these engines may have only done 80,000kms, they have often done this without ANY type of servicing at all.

 

How much do you pay for a 2nd hand Jap engine? These motors are so cheap and easy to recondition, isn't it worth doing a recond and knowing you have an engine that will last as long as you want it to.... I certainly think so.

.

Risky?

It came to my auto repair shop under a guarantee and the shop guarantees the work & the part(s), a generous amount of miles or time to the warranty, I don't remember which. For $1100 (the long block engine cost) I got the equivalent of an almost new car when it was 15 years old. Including a new radiator, clutch, timing belt, alternator, assorted other parts and labor, I invested $2100, and have the sweetest engine you could imagine on a car that's 26 years old. I'm the original owner and I know everything that's in that car. Have every scrap of paper it ever generated, including the dealer's price list from the side window when it was new on the lot.

 

Everything in my car (all stock, nothing altered) excluding the suspension & steering is good for another 100K miles, most likely more. Never been hit, no rust, no worries.

 

Subarule

[Ross]

.

Risky?

It came to my auto repair shop under a guarantee and the shop guarantees the work & the part(s), a generous amount of miles or time to the warranty, I don't remember which. For $1100 (the long block engine cost) I got the equivalent of an almost new car when it was 15 years old. Including a new radiator, clutch, timing belt, alternator, assorted other parts and labor, I invested $2100, and have the sweetest engine you could imagine on a car that's 26 years old. I'm the original owner and I know everything that's in that car. Have every scrap of paper it ever generated, including the dealer's price list from the side window when it was new on the lot.

 

Everything in my car (all stock, nothing altered) excluding the suspension & steering is good for another 100K miles, most likely more. Never been hit, no rust, no worries.

 

Subarule

 

Yes, risky. Maybe not financially for you since you have a warranty, but it would still be a pain for you if something went wrong and it had to go back. And because you have done this, I don't see how you can claim to know everything that's in the car - how can you know the full history of the 2nd hand motor you put in?

 

I'm not saying all Jap import motors are bad - just that some certainly are, and that if you have the time then reconditioning your own motor is the safer option. The Jap import thing has been ridiculously common over here for at least 20 years now, and you would not believe the number of horror stories I have heard.

 

Regarding the price, im not sure if things are much cheaper here or not (I doubt it) but i reconditioned an ea81t (very rare around here) recently for considerably less than that. I now know for certain that everything in the engine is in as new condition.

[Leeroy]

Everyone should remember that while a used Japanese engine may have a very low mileage, in some cases this distance has been covered sitting in traffic just idling. There can be very worn engines because they have spent most of their life at idle or just above.

 

Having said all that, if there is a guarantee they are usually good value.

[Subarule]

Yes, risky. Maybe not financially for you since you have a warranty, but it would still be a pain for you if something went wrong and it had to go back. And because you have done this, I don't see how you can claim to know everything that's in the car - how can you know the full history of the 2nd hand motor you put in?

 

I'm not saying all Jap import motors are bad - just that some certainly are, and that if you have the time then reconditioning your own motor is the safer option. The Jap import thing has been ridiculously common over here for at least 20 years now, and you would not believe the number of horror stories I have heard.

 

Regarding the price, im not sure if things are much cheaper here or not (I doubt it) but i reconditioned an ea81t (very rare around here) recently for considerably less than that. I now know for certain that everything in the engine is in as new condition.

 

I'm a female, retired, in my 60s, and rebuilding/reconditioning my original engine myself was not an option for me personally (and no auto mechanic in my familiy to call on). Work had to be done by a shop, and by mechanics that I have had a long and excellent relationship with. So the used engine seemed like the best route for me at the time I decided to revamp my Sub, in order for it to last me the rest of my life.

 

I don't know the full history of the 2nd-hand motor I put in, that is true. But sometimes things in life just seem worth trusting and I had a feeling in my bones that this was the way for me to go, given all the factors & variables I had to work with.

 

I'd do it again in a heartbeat if I had another oldie-but-goodie Sub to rehabilitate.

 

Not wanting to argue, just presenting my perspective & circumstances, and an option to those who may not have considered getting a used engine from Japan.

 

Subarule

[GeneralDisorder]

As long as they are tested thoroughly there shouldn't be any problem. At a minimum I would expect to see compression numbers - both wet and dry, check each cylinder with a boroscope, and pull the valve covers and oil pan for inspection. Any lack of maintenance in the engine's past should show up on one of these tests with a skilled technician.

 

I see no reason why there should be anything but a very small percentage of engines sold by a reputable importer that aren't in good condition after a full technical assesment.

 

It all comes down to the reputation/warrantee of the import company and US retailer of the engines. And that's generally not too difficult to asses with a bit of web searching.

 

GD

[Subarule]

As long as they are tested thoroughly there shouldn't be any problem. At a minimum I would expect to see compression numbers - both wet and dry, check each cylinder with a boroscope, and pull the valve covers and oil pan for inspection. Any lack of maintenance in the engine's past should show up on one of these tests with a skilled technician.

 

I see no reason why there should be anything but a very small percentage of engines sold by a reputable importer that aren't in good condition after a full technical assesment.

 

It all comes down to the reputation/warrantee of the import company and US retailer of the engines. And that's generally not too difficult to asses with a bit of web searching.

 

GD

 

As with all things purchased, it's "caveat emptor".

 

I trusted my source, and trusted my source to trust his/their source. Been doing business with them for 15 years and they've been doing business in this small community for over a quarter of a century with high marks.

 

Subarule

[4WDFrenzy]

Sure, its the easy route to take, but it is risky. For every sound second hand engine/car coming out of Japan, there are many unsound ones.

 

This can be said with anything. You can buy a brand new car off the lot from a dealership and it can have problems. So that really isn't an excuse. As the saying goes, "There is always a bad apple in the bunch." You may not know which one it is at first glance, but there is always one in there.

 

As for the reason of the high ownership turnover rate/availability of low mileage engines, is because the Japanese government likes to get your money in several ways. The two most common forms are annual Road Tax and also JCI(Japanese Compulsory Insurance). Road tax is taken up every year and the amount that you pay is dependent on the vehicle weight/engine displacement. If you have an engine 2.0L or under, you pay about $75 USD or equivalent. Anything over that pays over $100 for road tax. Now if you drive a little moped, scooter, or motorcycle like most of the local nationals do, you would pay anywhere form $5 - $25 USD or equivalent. And to make matters worse, you have to pay for JCI renewal every 2 years, which is a rigourous top-to-bottom inspection of your vehicle to determine whether it is road worthy. It can cost upwards of $1400 USD to have it done! Now we as Americans, get off lucky and pay about half as much(around $700). So as you see, if you buy a car here, in most cases it isn't worth keeping it for longer than 2 years especially considering that the American dollar is worth more than the Japanese yen. This being said, most local nationals don't bother doing maintanence on their vehicles(unless they are automotive enthusiasts) that most Americans and others are used to, because they know that more than likely, in 2 years they will be driving a different vehicle.

 

My point is, that if she decided to get a low-mileage used engine, and the shop is basically going to warranty the engine, then why argue. I'd pay the $1100 too and have some peace of mind.

[desertsubaru]

I got lucky and found a 92 Ea82 with 87k on it from harrys for $50 on engine week. There is a ton of Ea82s at harrys u pull most with under 150k because they are rusty.

[Ross]

This can be said with anything. You can buy a brand new car off the lot from a dealership and it can have problems. So that really isn't an excuse. As the saying goes, "There is always a bad apple in the bunch." You may not know which one it is at first glance, but there is always one in there.

 

 

My point wasn't that there were a few bad ones -- rather that there were comparatively few good ones. I'm not trying to argue - just think that other people may as well learn from my country's mistakes!

[4WDFrenzy]

My point wasn't that there were a few bad ones -- rather that there were comparatively few good ones. I'm not trying to argue - just think that other people may as well learn from my country's mistakes!

 

Understood.

 

-Patrick

[calebz]

My point wasn't that there were a few bad ones -- rather that there were comparatively few good ones. I'm not trying to argue - just think that other people may as well learn from my country's mistakes!

 

 

We've been doing japanese crate motors here for a number of years as well.

 

Perhaps they just save all the crappy ones for you guys.

 

Out of a couple dozen I have done over the past 15 or so years, I have only had one questionable crate motor from japan.

[daeron]

We've been doing japanese crate motors here for a number of years as well.

 

Perhaps they just save all the crappy ones for you guys.

 

Out of a couple dozen I have done over the past 15 or so years, I have only had one questionable crate motor from japan.

This topic has me scratching my head.

 

It makes perfect and utter sense that the Japanese market would be FAR less maintenance prone, and I have always wondered just that. The NZ/OZ experience seems to be that crate motors from japan are of dubious value.

 

However, I have NEVER heard a peep about a problem with a japanese pull engine from anyone stateside. Could the problem lay in differing expectations or different care taken on used motors, or is this considered more or less "common knowledge" down under?

 

It would be GREAT if we could get lots of response here regarding experiences.. It could well be that there is some qualitative difference in the engines that get sent South, and the engines that get sent East....

[GeneralDisorder]

The US is a bigger market, and the US importers get first pick and are likely much more sensitive to quality and more demanding of it. When you pay top dollar you get the cream of the crop - the rest probably go to smaller markets at discounted rates.

 

GD

[Ross]

The US is a bigger market, and the US importers get first pick and are likely much more sensitive to quality and more demanding of it. When you pay top dollar you get the cream of the crop - the rest probably go to smaller markets at discounted rates.

 

GD

 

Sorry, but that is rubbish. In Japan, everyone gets first pick as there is just such a huge volume of vehicles being disposed of. Plus, I think you underestimate the number of second hand vehicles we (foolishly) import from japan...... As for paying top dollar, if you are paying more than about US$500 for a whole car a couple years old over there, you are getting ripped off. 90%+ of the cost of Jap import stuff should be shipping and certification costs.

 

The experiences I am talking about is of whole vehicles being imported - not engines. I am assuming the same quality issues would exist with seperate engines as with vehicles.

We don't really import second hand components - by the time you've payed shipping costs etc. it's going to be cheaper, or at least almost as cheap, to rebuild, and then you end up with a like new component.

[Subarule]

This topic has me scratching my head.

 

It makes perfect and utter sense that the Japanese market would be FAR less maintenance prone, and I have always wondered just that. The NZ/OZ experience seems to be that crate motors from japan are of dubious value.

 

However, I have NEVER heard a peep about a problem with a japanese pull engine from anyone stateside. Could the problem lay in differing expectations or different care taken on used motors, or is this considered more or less "common knowledge" down under?

 

It would be GREAT if we could get lots of response here regarding experiences.. It could well be that there is some qualitative difference in the engines that get sent South, and the engines that get sent East....

 

I'd be curious to know just how many people in the U.S. opt to go with the pulled & exported Japanese engines for an engine re-do. Per year, and since the practice got started. Not exact numbers, of course, just solid ballpark numbers.

 

Hundreds annually? Thousands? Way less than 100s?

 

How big of a business is it? How many exporters are there, and how many U.S. car businesses deal in that stock?

 

I wonder which is cheaper & faster - considering SHOP RATES only - to a) pull out the old & plunk in a used Japanese long block, to pull & recondition an existing engine, or c) to buy a rebuilt, pull out the old, and plunk in the rebuilt? Work under the assumption that the car's owner has no auto mechanical skill and must depend on a certified professional shop to do all the work.

 

The things I wonder about...

 

Subarule

[4WDFrenzy]

I wonder which is cheaper & faster - considering SHOP RATES only - to a) pull out the old & plunk in a used Japanese long block, to pull & recondition an existing engine, or c) to buy a rebuilt, pull out the old, and plunk in the rebuilt? Work under the assumption that the car's owner has no auto mechanical skill and must depend on a certified professional shop to do all the work.

 

The things I wonder about...

 

Subarule

 

I whole heartedly agree with you. I wonder the same thing. The engine that is in my wagon is a used, low-mileage longblock(had less than 40,000). I have had no real major problems with it except for the timing idler. Other than that, it has been rock solid. As I stated before, if the garage that seviced your car warranties the engine and the work, I would have went the same route.

 

-Patrick