Which O2 Sensor For 86 GL Carbed 1800?

[Subarule]

Which one of these, without considering the prices? The car is a 4 x 4, 5-spd. wagon, VIN category "5". I want one that is a direct replacement for OEM, or better.

 

http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?N=1719+4294967014+11738+9167

 

Thanks in advance for any input. I'll be asking about other replacement parts I'm about to purchase. In the mood to do some spiffing up on my girl.

 

Subarule

[GeneralDisorder]

Cheapest single wire you can get. Set aside at least 6 hours for this job as it's welded itself into the cat, and won't be easy to remove. You'll have to bust the old one off, then go at it with a big socket. Then chase the threads with a spark plug thread chaser. Expect sore arms....

 

But frankly it won't help that feedback Hitachi. Like as not the manifold pressure sensor is shot (every one I've tested was), and those are more expensive then a Weber. That whole EA82 feedback system was hands down the worst fuel delivery system Subaru ever made.

 

GD

[dhise]

I tried to get my old o2 sensor out and cussed and swore and fought with it. You need heat... Local muffler guys ended getting it out for me for $20.

 

-Doug

[Subarule]

Cheapest single wire you can get. Set aside at least 6 hours for this job as it's welded itself into the cat, and won't be easy to remove. You'll have to bust the old one off, then go at it with a big socket. Then chase the threads with a spark plug thread chaser. Expect sore arms....

 

But frankly it won't help that feedback Hitachi. Like as not the manifold pressure sensor is shot (every one I've tested was), and those are more expensive then a Weber. That whole EA82 feedback system was hands down the worst fuel delivery system Subaru ever made.

 

GD

 

Thanks for the things to be aware of. I won't be doing this myself, I'll have my trusty auto shop do it, while replacing several other under-$100 items. They'll have the tools needed & the knowledge (I've been trusting them for 15 years to work on this car).

 

Why is the "cheapest" single wire best?

 

Manifold pressure sensor...how long/how many miles on an engine, does it take for one of those to go bad?

 

Subarule

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks for the things to be aware of. I won't be doing this myself, I'll have my trusty auto shop do it, while replacing several other under-$100 items. They'll have the tools needed & the knowledge (I've been trusting them for 15 years to work on this car).

 

Why is the "cheapest" single wire best?

 

Frankly, any single wire is fine, and the cheapest is generally a Bosch or similar. They are all the same, and for the feedback Hitachi you have it doesn't matter. It probably won't do any good to replace it anyway on that mess of a fuel system. But if you replace it you would know it's good in case you ever wanted to swap over to the SPFI - it requires the same O2.

 

Manifold pressure sensor...how long/how many miles on an engine, does it take for one of those to go bad?

 

Subarule

 

Every one I've ever seen was bad, so I would have to say not long. This one is the coffin nail for the EA82 feedback as it's dealer only, and about $170 or more. It's not worth bothering with the whole feedback Hitachi carb when you can retrofit a Weber for about $275 for the brand new kit. More power, better mileage, no computer or sensors. Have your shop install one for you. The labor will be less too as it's simpler and takes less time than fiddling with that computerized mess of a carb.

 

GD

[Subarule]

Every one I've ever seen was bad, so I would have to say not long. This one is the coffin nail for the EA82 feedback as it's dealer only, and about $170 or more. It's not worth bothering with the whole feedback Hitachi carb when you can retrofit a Weber for about $275 for the brand new kit. More power, better mileage, no computer or sensors. Have your shop install one for you. The labor will be less too as it's simpler and takes less time than fiddling with that computerized mess of a carb.

 

GD

 

I don't think I have a computerized carb. My car doesn't have displays and engine codes. Wouldn't a computerized 86 have those/that?

 

My original Hitachi carb has been great the whole life of the car. I'm sure it got a good cleaning when the engine was replaced less than 50K miles ago, have had no trouble at all from it. I had the engine replaced with a used one from Japan in 2000 and it probably had 35K-40K miles on it when I got it. Since early 2001 I haven't driven it more than a few thousand miles in six years.

 

Anyway, how do I determine definitively whether or not I have a computerzied carb?

 

Subarule

[GeneralDisorder]

If you have an O2 sensor, then you have a feedback (computerized) carb. Non-computer carbs are not equipped with O2's at all.

 

You do have an "ECS" (emissions control system) lamp in your guage cluster, or on the surround. But that doesn't mean someone didn't pull the bulb out of it. Remove the kick panel under the drivers side and you will see the computer. It has a flashing red LED that will indicate codes.

 

Whether or not the shop used the carb from the Japanese motor is a good question - but if they did then they clearly aren't as honest or knowledgable as you think because they would know that the O2 isn't doing anything at all - being they were the ones that replaced the engine in the first place.

 

If that's the case, then the computer, O2 and every other sensor associated with the feedback isn't doing anything, although it's likely still in place as it supplies power to the fuel pump and it's easier to just let it keep doing that.

 

GD

[Subarule]

If you have an O2 sensor, then you have a feedback (computerized) carb. Non-computer carbs are not equipped with O2's at all.

 

I don't know if I have an O2 sensor or not. No one has told me that I do or should. I'm just putting together a list of new parts to order for for my car, parts that I thought would be relatively easy swap-outs, that don't cost much (I'm using a benchmark of no more than $100 for any single part).

 

You do have an "ECS" (emissions control system) lamp in your guage cluster, or on the surround. But that doesn't mean someone didn't pull the bulb out of it.

 

I have seen an "EGR" warning light up. I have seen the red "Check Engine" and the red "Stop Lamp" come on. Nothing else that I can recall has ever shown up. Are those what are considered the "codes"? Because I've never had anything display that had a number. But I obviously have a working bulb in place.

 

What's "the surround" thing you mention?

 

Remove the kick panel under the drivers side and you will see the computer. It has a flashing red LED that will indicate codes.

 

And do "codes" imply number codes?

 

Whether or not the shop used the carb from the Japanese motor is a good question - but if they did then they clearly aren't as honest or knowledgable as you think...

 

Oh no, they didn't change carbs, I'm still running my original. Which they may have cleaned or done a little rebuild on just because it would have been due.

 

I'm going to have to take some pictures of my dash and under the hood so you all can point things out to me.

 

Subarule

[GeneralDisorder]

The "Check Engine" lamp you have seen would indicate a fault in the feedback carb system. It illuminates to indicate a code is availible at the ECU.

 

To get the codes, you have to remove the kick panel and the LED on the computer will flash them in morse code. Long and short flashes. For example, three long flashes followed by four short flashes would indicate a code "34" which can then be cross referenced through the service manual.

 

The problem with the codes for the feedback carb system is they are not "remembered" by the primitive computer after the engine has been turned off. Once the code fires, you have to remove the kick panel and read the codes before shutting down the engine.

 

It's an extremely complex system for a carbed vehicle, and sadly there's very few of us around that can work on them successfully. When you take into account the expense of feeding the system manifold pressure sensors (MAP), O2 sensors, coolant temperature sensors, and the obscurity of the Hitachi carb used for this system it's always cheaper to replace it with a Weber 32/36 DGV series and get more power, better econemy, and easier, cheaper maintenance.

 

I happen to own an 86 equipped exactly as your model (4WD feedback carb sedan). I went through about 6 or 7 used MAP sensors before I decided I wasn't going to find a good one. I rebuilt a used Weber DGV to like new condition, and all told it cost $190 for the complete rebuild, and the manifold adaptor. The car is a dream to drive, and gets 2 to 3 MPG more than it got before the carb swap. And you can even pass with it now! The gain is mostly on the torque curve, and throttle response is much improved because the Weber is a progressive linkage carb, while the Hitachi has a vacuum operated secondary and runs very weak directly off-idle. Top end is about the same, but throttle response is much sportier and passing is a lot easier.

 

If you would like, I would be willing to assist with the conversion. I'm in Portland. If you order the kit the conversion takes about a day.

 

GD

[daeron]

If you would like, I would be willing to assist with the conversion. I'm in Portland. If you order the kit the conversion takes about a day.

 

GD

 

Just to add some weight to this suggestion, I want to clarify that this is NOT a hot-rodder type thing, its not a "fly-by-night" modification, it isn't a hack in any possible sense.

 

Weber carburetors are THE name in small automotive engine carburetion, whether the DGV downdraft style or the DCOE sidedraft style, and countless automobiles, motorcycles, and other gas powered vehicles have a "weber swap" that is, almost as a RULE, a completely superior to OE option. More power, more fuel economy, smoother performance, more reliability. Everything from datsuns to BMWs like to use weber carburetors; sometimes they DO get installed by the factory.

 

The weber swap is in all ways your best option; the only hesitation that there EVER is, is emissions code. If GD says its fine by your local standards, I believe him (and would have thought so anyhow; it takes strict rules to make the weber swap totally unachievable. Sometimes its not strictly by the rules, and you "get away with it," but im pretty sure in your case its A-OK by the book, too.

[Subarule]

Just to add some weight to this suggestion, I want to clarify that this is NOT a hot-rodder type thing, its not a "fly-by-night" modification, it isn't a hack in any possible sense.

 

Weber carburetors are THE name in small automotive engine carburetion, whether the DGV downdraft style or the DCOE sidedraft style, and countless automobiles, motorcycles, and other gas powered vehicles have a "weber swap" that is, almost as a RULE, a completely superior to OE option. More power, more fuel economy, smoother performance, more reliability. Everything from datsuns to BMWs like to use weber carburetors; sometimes they DO get installed by the factory.

 

The weber swap is in all ways your best option; the only hesitation that there EVER is, is emissions code. If GD says its fine by your local standards, I believe him (and would have thought so anyhow; it takes strict rules to make the weber swap totally unachievable. Sometimes its not strictly by the rules, and you "get away with it," but im pretty sure in your case its A-OK by the book, too.

 

Not to worry, I had already come around to deciding I need to make the swap. But thank you for the reminder because I forget to add it to the wish list I am compiling.

 

Subarule