Go for the $495 fluid maintenance package?

[John-Charleston]

I bought a used 2000 OB wagon a few months ago and today had an opportunity to have the local Dealership look it over for an assessment.

They found a small leak happening in the head gaskets which is almost a relief since it's still under a Subaru warranty and they'll replace the gaskets for me. The car has 86k on it at this point so the mechanic suggested I should change out the timing belt which would just cost me $85 to do in conjunction with the hg's. That seemed logical to me and I'll go for that.

 

But then he said it looked like the transmission looked like it had never been serviced nor the differential fluids and suggested a $495 package that would include the Transmission being "flushed", differential fluids changed, Oil changed and Radiator flushed. (I think that was all of it but maybe brake fluids?). It's possible that price might be reduced if I have it all done in conjunction with the hg's since they'd have to change out the radiator fluid anyway but I'm not sure.

 

My question is, is it reasonable that this work should be done and is that a reasonable price? Is there anything else I should be thinking about while the hg's are being done?

I consider it a lucky break that the hg leak showed up while still under warranty and I'm certainly not complaining. Still, my work has been slow and I'm not exactly flush right now so I'm not wanting to waste money on unessentials.

 

Thanks,

John

[tcspeer]

I would have the timing belt done, and would change the transmission fluid myself. I wouldnt worry about the coolant because as you already said it mostly will be changed with the head gasket job.

[jcniest5]

I would have the timing belt done, and would change the transmission fluid myself. I wouldnt worry about the coolant because as you already said it mostly will be changed with the head gasket job.

 

I completely agree on this. You would save at least $300 (if not more) doing the tranny flush and diff. fluid/oil change. These are easy to do.

[nipper]

Er um, timing belt yes. Fluid flush NO.

 

First off they have to drain the coolling system to replace the head gaskets. They are trying to make "found money" off you.

 

You wont need to do the coolant flush.

 

Tranny you can do yourself.

Differentials you can do yourself.

Power steering fluid can be done with a turkey baster.

Brake fluid can be done with a turkey baster (not the same as the PS fluid).

 

They figure some how they will get cash out of you.

 

BTW were they going to use synthetic or dyno blinker fluid?

 

nipper

[brus brother]

Er um, timing belt yes. Fluid flush NO.nipper

I agree with Nipper have the Er um and the timing belt done at the same time but if you are at all handy, check around here for discussions on DIY fluid changes.

Under a similar situation, I walked into the Parts Dept. bought the t-belt, asked for their on-line price and left it on the front seat for the SOA mechanic to replace when he did the job. Cost me about $57. I'm not sure about the price on the Er um.

[GeneralDisorder]

That "package" is a total dealer rip-off scheme. Huge profit margin as it's all labor and they can have some kid ("lube-tech" ) that makes $12 an hour do all that stuff and charge you $100 an hour.

 

 

GD

[John-Charleston]

Um er, (I'd heard they should be done in the reverse order) Thanks for the replies here.

In spite of the fact that I'm a carpenter not a mechanic and I always end up with bleeding knuckles when I work on a car, I'll likely do the fluid changes myself. Now I haven't done a search on fluid changes yet but one thing included in the mechanic's pitch was the fact that they wouldn't just change the trans fluid but would flush the trans out with something that would clean it up. I guess I could just use Dawn. (joke)

 

Is it normal to change out the brake fluid? I've never heard of doing that unless brakes were being bled. Same with power steering fluid; does it need to be changed?

I'm thinking about it and trying to remember if he was including changing spark plugs in the $495 price. I'd mentioned to him that my mileage is only around 22 around town and not so great on the highway either and he was saying it should be much better & might have talked spark plugs...I have to call him today.

 

As for the blinker fluid...well I have to admit I did a search on that trying to figure out wtf you were talking about. I thought maybe you were a Brit and it was some colloquial reference to engine oil. Don't toy with me here, I might take the wrong thing seriously!

[OB99W]

[...]Now I haven't done a search on fluid changes yet but one thing included in the mechanic's pitch was the fact that they wouldn't just change the trans fluid but would flush the trans out with something that would clean it up.[...]

Never have a chemical flush done on a trans, especially one that's not giving trouble. The only kind of flush to possibly consider is one where all the ATF is replaced with fresh fluid. Draining via the plug in the pan requires several refills to approach 100% replacement. However, for a trans that's working well, and if the fluid currently in place doesn't look/smell bad, a single drain of the pan might be enough. What's critical is to get the level right when you're done. Although Subaru doesn't consider it a maintenance item, you might also think about replacing the external spin-on ATF filter.

 

 

Is it normal to change out the brake fluid? I've never heard of doing that unless brakes were being bled.

That was something that didn't used to be done much. However, it's become more of an issue in recent years due to the inclusion of ABS on most cars, among other things. Brake fluid absorbs moisture, and eventually can begin causing corrosion. It's not good if that happens anywhere in the brake system, but the ABS hydraulics in particular don't like it.

 

 

Same with power steering fluid; does it need to be changed?

Can't hurt (if done properly ), might not help.

 

 

[...]I'd mentioned to him that my mileage is only around 22 around town and not so great on the highway either and he was saying it should be much better & might have talked spark plugs...I have to call him today.

It depends what "not so great on the highway" translates to in actual MPG (27 or so?), but 22 "around town" is probably about right, and I question if "much better" is likely. Your driving style, tire inflation, etc., naturally play a roll in gas mileage.

[nipper]

Let them change the plugs when the heads are OUT of the car. Don't let them talk you into a huge labor charge for it.

 

Subaru recomends ps and brake fluid "flush" every 3 years. Those two are over 100.00 each. i never change PS fluid. Brake fluid i only do when the brakes are serviced. Some MFG say the fluid is good for the life of the car.

 

If you are the kind that worry about fluid changes, you do the turkey baster method.

 

Tranny flush is just fresh fluid in the tranny, nothing else. It has to be flushed to get it all out. If the dealer is offering a chemical flush, he is not doing a recomended subaru service, as last i checked, subaru does not condone chemical flushes.

 

22 around town is about right. I get 19-21 local 26 highway.

 

SO I guess i shouldnt mention muffler bearings then

 

nipper

[John-Charleston]

Well I just got off the phone with the mechanic and I did have it right....Trans flush, both diffs, brake fluid and ps fluid. Even though the oil and rad fluid would be changed out with the hg job; "the price would still be $495, or maybe even a little bit more because the $495 package was just for a trans drain and not a flush"

So now I'm hearing at least $495 even though the oil and rad aren't in there...

 

I think the only things I couldn't do myself would be "flushing" the trans and the ps as opposed to just a fluid change. $180 for the trans flush....

 

Still havent' read the archives on fluid changes but I have to get working right now so later.

 

Thanks,

John

[nipper]

tranny fluid, at 180.00 is a rip off. Most shops charge 99.00 for it. Dont let them flush a thing.

 

Tranny flush is just you draining, filling, driving around the block, and repeating three or four times.

 

There is nothing there you cant do yourself, and the brake fluid and PS fluid doesnt have to be done.

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

price around for the services you want.

 

changing brake fluid is a good idea, but yours isn't all that old, if your pedal isn't spongey and the fluid doens't look black/brown/nasty then leave it - there are plenty of 10 and 20 year old cars that have never been flushed, many subarus actually since they typically have few brake issues.

 

transmission "flush" means they actually push the fluid out and replace it verses just a drain and refill. they use a machine, it has nothing to do with chemicals. the idea is that a drain of the trans doesn't get all the fluid out like draining the engine oil because ATF is trapped in the torque converter, cooler, hoses, valve bodies, etc. most of us drain and refill three times with short trips in between to circulate the fluid.

 

the prices you're being quoted are part of a sales routine only, i would shop elsewhere or ask them to be more reasonable. shopping around first and getting market prices for these services might help you get the cost reduced but at this point i wouldn't trust them. i wouldn't tell them "no" yet either, because i don't like their antics.

 

i would tell them you're leary about this headgasket job and you'll go for the new timing belt but you'll wait to drive the car a bit and make sure it's worth dumping more money into after the headgasket job. don't give them any idea that you're going elsewhere, but that's probably what i would end up doing.

[schlit]

i wouldn't tell them "no" yet either, because i don't like their antics.

 

i would tell them you're leary about this headgasket job and you'll go for the new timing belt but you'll wait to drive the car a bit and make sure it's worth dumping more money into after the headgasket job. don't give them any idea that you're going elsewhere, but that's probably what i would end up doing.

 

Great advice. You always want them to think you're going to come back for more if they do a good job.

 

If you flat out say no, you'll probably be back in there for ripped CV joints or balljoints in three months.

[idosubaru]

Great advice. You always want them to think you're going to come back for more if they do a good job.

well it's not that i want them to think i'm coming back, but that they don't think i'm definitely NOT coming back. i know that doesn't sound like it's any different but it is to me!

[avk]

$495 sure will buy a lot of fluid, like 20 gallons of synthetic oil or maybe 60 gallons of coolant,

or some of each.

[John-Charleston]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks in that paraniod way...I'd already decided to get the hg's done without letting them know I'll look elsewhere for the rest of the work. I will buy 4 spark plugs before I go though. They wanted $110 to replace them.

 

Would it be a bad idea to just go to a transmission place to get the trans serviced?

Also, the car's needing rear brakes. Does it matter if I get Subaru pads or not? In fact that's a question about any replacement fluids/parts....is it important to use Subaru parts? I gather it is on the radiator fluid, but what about other fluids?

 

Thanks for all the help. I'll think of you all while my knuckles are bleeding. :-)

 

John

[nipper]

I will buy 4 spark plugs before I go though. They wanted $110 to replace them.

 

John

 

OMFG 110.00 to replace something that is going to be sitting on a bench?

 

Watch your a** with this dealership. With the heads out its a 5 minute operation to replace the plugs.

 

nipper

[nipper]

Brakes pads, nothing wrong with subaru pads, they have lasted this long, so replacements would be fine.

 

 

Never ever set foot in a transmission shop, evil places, they will suck your bank account dry.

 

Why not do it yourself?

 

nipper

[John-Charleston]

Yeah, their $110 for plugs was I guess the rate if that's all they were going to do. (ie, the engine wouldn't be out) But he didn't make any better offers and even though when it comes to mechanics, I'm a carpenter; I think I could manage changing spark plugs for $110.

 

I'll probably do the trans myself too. Fluid/filter change and I guess the diffs as well. I really need to find time to read the fluid change threads but I won't do it til after they do the hg's anyway.

So, no need for special Subaru fluids?

[John-Charleston]

Another thought... When I was in the waiting room, I talked with two others waiting there. They both had very high opinions of the Subaru dealership we were at. Maybe their work is good but prices high? The place has recently changed ownership but I understand that the employees are all still the same.

[nipper]

If it makes you feel better, i paid someone to change my plugs. At the time i was recovering from back surgery, and they are real buggers to get to.

 

no need for sooby fluids, excpet ofr the coolant (personal preferance) and you are getting that anyway.

 

If the car did overheat, change the oil, if it idid not, no need to.

 

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

You don't need any Subaru specific fluids in this vehicle. Some dealers use Pennzoil and oil fluids. I am not sure if they still recommend the Subaru coolant additive even after replacing the headgaskets, but your 00-02 EJ25 engine is a candidate for the additive campaign. Also - if you have a limited slip rear differential you'll want to make sure you're using the right fluids.

 

As for plugs, the exact same NGK plugs for your engine are available at Subaru for $40 or at any local auto parts stores for $8, so no need to get those at Subaru. You may want to pick up a new set of ignition wires while you're there though. I've never used Subaru brake pads unless they came on a vehicle I bought. I've never even priced them, just assumed they are way high. If so I'd get those elsewhere as well.

 

Subaru specific items for your vehicle - ignition wires, PCV valve, and thermostat. Those are items you don't want to get from the parts stores.

 

YOu want to stick with Subaru's original equipment on the NGK plugs but they are available anywhere.

[John-Charleston]

I think the mechanic said I could buy the Subaru plugs for $12. I'll get more info and press them on how much if they do them while the engine is out. Plug wires sound like a good idea too.

 

The engine didn't overheat and I'd had the oil changed when I bought the car. We did notice that the new oil filter was leaking though.

 

Grossgary, if by "additive campaign" you mean the extended warranty Subaru offered when owners took the car in to have the magic stuff added to the radiator....well that's why this is still under warranty. The previous owner had had that done. Warranty period ends in about 6 months though. That was one reason I wanted to have it checked out. Got lucky.

[John-Charleston]

Damn. I just dropped off the OB for the hg change. I'm getting the timing belt done for an extra $85 and I talked them into changing the plugs for an extra $25 but then he brought up the cam seals. Insists that they will be leaking by 100K and that I should do them too for another $100. I got the distinct impression they were selling me something I didn't need but my gf is there waiting to give me a ride home and I just don't know so I agreed, OK, go ahead.

Did I just get suckered into spending $100 for something I didnt' need?

[Major Lazy]

Insists that they will be leaking by 100K and that I should do them too for another $100. I

Did I just get suckered into spending $100 for something I didnt' need?

 

 

I have a 97 impreza 2.2 and just had the cam and main seals done at 130k. The leaking was a smoky pain and cost me much more than $100. I would not feel bad about spending the extra cash while its already apart, it will probably pay off in the long run.