crazyhorse001 Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Car: '97 Legacy LSi Engine/trans: EJ25/4EAT Mileage: 136,000 Symptoms: When in park, idling, the temp guage pegs out within 30 sec. It does NOT do it in drive. (IE at a red light) If I shut the engine down, and let it sit for a minute or two the guage returns to normal. (1/2 guage scale) Coolant level is normal, overflow bottle is clean inside. When driving, the car acts totally normal. I do have a CEL for a knock sensor. Possibilities?: Could my guage sending unit be bad, or could a wire be shorted somewhere? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Guage might be bad.....or you may have head gasket issues. Unfortunately, it's common for that vintage of EJ25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 If you can get/borrow/beg/buy/etc a scangauge or similar scantool, you can read what the ECU is reading from the engine coolant temp sensor (next to the coolant temp sensor for the gauge). If the ECU reading still appears normal when the gauge goes bezerk then you know it's something with the gauge or sender. If the ECU reading goes high when the gauge goes high then you've got bigger issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 two things to check. Check the charging system and all your grounds. If you can make it happen on demand, go to autozone and borrow thier scan tool. Watch the engine temp vs the gauge. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 <<Symptoms: When in park, idling, the temp guage pegs out within 30 sec. >> you really shouldn't let it get that hot, its not good for the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted November 2, 2007 Author Share Posted November 2, 2007 <<Symptoms: When in park, idling, the temp guage pegs out within 30 sec. >> you really shouldn't let it get that hot, its not good for the engine. That's just it, I believe the engine isn't getting that hot. IE: no steam, no bubbling, no smells, no overheating symptoms of any kind exept the guage. To peg the guage within that amount of time, I'd have to be nearly out of coolant. Thanks for the advice, I'll "get in the Zone" and borrow thier scantool asap. Meanwhile I'll get to checking grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 OK, The problem FINALLY showed me symptoms I recognise. It's the head gaskets. To quote Battlestar Galactica....OH FRAK ME! I can do this job, I've done them before, but whatta PITA! While I'm in there, I'll do the T-belts, idlers, water pump, ETC. GEEZE $500 in parts alone. Christmas is gonna suxors at the Robbins house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Paul..NOOOOO Not Kat!! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. At least you have Lil Red while Kat is down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 Thanks Connie, Transportation isn't a problem. I have 4 cars. I can go back to driving my Pinto, & Let the wife drive my SVX. Financially, though this comes at a sucky time. I may let Kat sit over the holidays, so Christmas doesn't stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Thanks Connie, Transportation isn't a problem. I have 4 cars. I can go back to driving my Pinto, & Let the wife drive my SVX. Financially, though this comes at a sucky time.I may let Kat sit over the holidays, so Christmas doesn't stink. Well..like I said let me know if there is anything I can do to help:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 OK Since we have a Parts car on the line, I've cleared the Leggy for work to home duties for my wife. I figure if we're replacing the engine anyways, what's the worst that can happen, it blows the engine? Odd thing is, when I check the coolant level, the radiator is holding a vacuum. How could it hold a vacuum? Blown HG's is a leak for goodness sake! Vacuum is harder to hold than pressure! I had her pick up a rad. cap today, and we'll be taking it on an hour drive in the AM. MY FULL list of symptoms: Occasional guage "spikes" not accompanied by overheating symptoms. No boiling sounds, and the upper rad. hose is hot, not scalding. Bubbles in the overflow, not every day though. Coolant leaking from the overflow. Again, not every day. When the coolant is low, there is a heavy vacuum in the radiator. The $64 question: Does this sound like blown HG's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 OK Since we have a Parts car on the line, I've cleared the Leggy for work to home duties for my wife. I figure if we're replacing the engine anyways, what's the worst that can happen, it blows the engine? Odd thing is, when I check the coolant level, the radiator is holding a vacuum. How could it hold a vacuum? Blown HG's is a leak for goodness sake! Vacuum is harder to hold than pressure! I had her pick up a rad. cap today, and we'll be taking it on an hour drive in the AM. MY FULL list of symptoms: Occasional guage "spikes" not accompanied by overheating symptoms. No boiling sounds, and the upper rad. hose is hot, not scalding. Bubbles in the overflow, not every day though. Coolant leaking from the overflow. Again, not every day. When the coolant is low, there is a heavy vacuum in the radiator. The $64 question: Does this sound like blown HG's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 The bubbles are a definate sign of head gasket..but the others seem to be a rad cap.. That motor is so prone to gasket failure though...Have you burped the system also?? I know you know about that:) . Let us know what happens after the hour drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 SOunds like a bad cap to me. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Try a radiator cap first. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 [...]Odd thing is, when I check the coolant level, the radiator is holding a vacuum. How could it hold a vacuum? Blown HG's is a leak for goodness sake! Vacuum is harder to hold than pressure!"Vacuum" and "pressure" are relative terms; when discussing cars, we usually reference them to atmospheric pressure. So the "vacuum" in your cooled radiator is just somewhat lower pressure than that of the surrounding air. That few inches of "vacuum" in a cooled radiator exerts quite a bit less force than the hundreds of pounds of cylinder pressure, so "holding vacuum" isn't very telling. Besides, even if the forces were equal, reversing direction can temporarily seal openings that occur when applied the other way. [...]Bubbles in the overflow, not every day though.[...]The $64 question: Does this sound like blown HG's?Assuming the new radiator cap doesn't help, the best way to diagnose this is probably to determine the source of the bubbles. They can only be from three sources:1) Air, due to incomplete filling of the cooling system. 2) Water vapor, due to boiling of the coolant; this can be caused by a localized hot spot, so may not be obvious. 3) Exhaust gases, due to the dreaded leaking HGs. If HGs are suspected, a hydrocarbon test often makes the determination easier. If the bubbles are significant enough, you might even be able to smell exhaust at the recovery tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 See my response in the previous thread covering this topic: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81534&page=2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 replace cap and thermostat for sure and make sure the fluid is topped off. it sounds like head gaskets to me, but i've seen so many with blown head gaskets it's not even funny. on the EJ25, this is very typical for people to be confused. i've helped mechanics before that say it's "so strange" and "can't figure it out", they already replaced radiators, water pumps, etc and it still overheats. they don't quite fail like other vehicles. be careful taking long trips, i would not do it. if it gets worse that will turn into about a 5 hour trip or blowing the engine. if it is head gaskets it will get worse and when they do they spike to red in a hurry. while testing some i've driven them "down the road"....and ended up taking an hour just to get back! drive, overheat, pull over, cool down, drive, overheat...repeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 See my response in the previous thread covering this topic:http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=81534&page=2 I thought this topic sounded familar. I was wondering why my response didnt post, now i know why (it's too early for me) nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 i have seen an EJ25 pass a hydrocarbon test with bad head gaskets before. it was one of those befuddled mechanics i was helping out. he had replaced everything and was fortunate to get in contact with me. he had ruled out the head gasket (it was a 96 or 97 EJ25) based on the fact that it passed the hydrocarbon test. i guess the other option is that he didn't do the test properly , but i think it has happened to others on here before as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 I took that hour trip with a new radiator cap. No overheating, or loss of coolant. No bubbles in the overflow either. This was an hour there, and an hour back, with several hours between. I understand that EJ25 phaseI's don't act like other engines, due to the open deck design. COULD I have misdiagnosed this so badly? I've been working on cars since I could hold a wrench, and rebuilt an EA82 a few years ago. I'm not complaining that a $450 fix turned out to be a $10 fix though! Time will tell how things go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 of course! that's why cap, thermostat, leaks, fluid level and water pump should be checked first. excellent news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 :banana: Paul!! With the history of head gasket failure in those motors being so common.. I woud have probably dont the same as you. Just keep you eye on her for a bit..and Happy Holidays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I took that hour trip with a new radiator cap. No overheating, or loss of coolant.[...]Great! Radiator caps can fail in a few ways, and a cap that holds "vacuum" doesn't necessarily hold pressure. The lowered pressure can be from a damaged seal or loss of spring tension. If there's just a slight pressure loss, the reduction in the coolant boiling point could make the situation marginal. Boiling might only occur at hot-spots in the engine, not overall; that can tend to cause smaller bubbles that could be mistaken for other problems. It could even be dependent on the coolant concentration, since "antifreeze" of course elevates the boiling point as well as depresses that of freezing. Anyway, congrats on the apparent fix; I hope that $10 did cover it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 So far, so good. I think I got the last of the air bubbles out this morning. This weekend, I'll change the t-stat. Wether it needs it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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