axgutt Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I just started and backed up my wife's 1995 Legacy LS wagon to do an oil change and noticed a small, fresh puddle that was both coolant and oil. I looked at the bottom of the engine, and it looks like it's coming out at the seam on the passenger's side of the engine where the engine and cover come together (I don't know what they're actually called). It's a 2.2L engine, but I'm freaking out thinking this may be a head gasket. Does that sound like the problem? If so, what am I looking at to get it fixed, and how long can I drive it before it goes kaput? It has about 188,000 miles on it. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hm...when you say seam, do you mean timing belt cover (near the radiator fans)? If so it could be the water pump seal has given up its special seal, and oil may be leaking in from a cam and/or crank seal leak thus yielding a special mix leaking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 No - it's on the passenger side, outside of where the exhaust comes out. I just checked it out again, and that part is pretty oily. It looks like the coolant dripped out by the timing belt cover area though. Maybe the two are unrelated - the oil and coolant on the garage floor look like they dripped out separates? I'm due for a timing belt anyway. Maybe it's that and some other seal. Adam Hm...when you say seam, do you mean timing belt cover (near the radiator fans)? If so it could be the water pump seal has given up its special seal, and oil may be leaking in from a cam and/or crank seal leak thus yielding a special mix leaking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Crazy....I justed noticed a (small) coolant leak on the pass. side where the timing cover and engine come together. Turns out it was the upper radiator hose leaking...Had to feel it with my hand - that's how small it was. You might want to check the hose out. BTW - the water pump is on the driver side, so thats out of the question Don't know what to tell you about the oil. Maybe, check inside the timing cover from underneath. You should also inspect the oil pan gasket...the front of mine has a small leak too, which I also found while doing a oil change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Here's a picture. You can see that another drop of oil is about to fall from the bolt . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesomedude Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Looks like you need valve cover gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Yea valve cover gaskets....but that still doesn't explain the coolant, so investigate further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Water pump. They have a weep hiole in the bottom. The coolant travels inside the covers and leaks out where it finds a gap. DO NOT IGNORE THIS! On interference engines, you loose the waterpump (wait till failure) its as bad as breaking a timing belt. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axgutt Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Since I need the timing belt done anyway, it sounds like I should have them do the water pump while there in there. I had this done on my Legacy wagon when it hit 240,000. What's labor going to be like on a valve gasket cover? I'll get that done with the timing belt regardless, but will I get some sort of break? My neigbor is starting to really like me. He owns a small repair shop, and in the last couple of months has gotten to do two wheel bearings, and will do a clutch kit on my Legacy this week. He'll get to do the timing belt, water pump, valve gasket cover, and whatever else is in the 60,000 mile service interval next week. He seems to do good work and only charges for the actual time, not what the books say (if he does it faster). This saved me a bunch when he did one of the wheel bearings a few weeks ago. He also diagnosed what I thought was a differential problem as a wheel bearing which saved me from jumping over a cliff. Thanks for everyone's help. Adam Water pump. They have a weep hiole in the bottom. The coolant travels inside the covers and leaks out where it finds a gap. DO NOT IGNORE THIS! On interference engines, you loose the waterpump (wait till failure) its as bad as breaking a timing belt. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Water pump. They have a weep hiole in the bottom. The coolant travels inside the covers and leaks out where it finds a gap. DO NOT IGNORE THIS! On interference engines, you loose the waterpump (wait till failure) its as bad as breaking a timing belt. nipper Hold on, while the advice to replace the waterpump ASAP is good, the MY95 2.2 was not an interferece motor. MY97 was when that started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 1997 is when the 2.2 started as interference motors. You might want to consider doing all the oil seals (besides HG) when he does the timing belt. Don't have time to explain now, search some of my older post I did it all when I had a clutch done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hold on, while the advice to replace the waterpump ASAP is good, the MY95 2.2 was not an interferece motor. MY97 was when that started. Well you know once the water pump mechanically fails , the timing belt is still going to fall off (And probably get damaged), just there will be no engine damage. Of course waiting for a tow truck may not ne the best thing to do either. And with the holidays coming, murphies law will apply. I ignored one of these in a nissan once, and it took all of 10 days to go from leak to parts (of the water pump) all over the road. Just an FYI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 What's labor going to be like on a valve gasket cover? Labor shouldn't be too bad. The covers are easy to R&R on that era 2.2L; only 3 bolts holding the valve cover in place. You can get a Subaru kit with the valve cover gaskest and bolt hole washers. The biggest tip I can offer is clean thoroughly around the valve covers before removing them. Any grit promptly falls onto the valvetrain when removing the covers. Here's some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Actually we are forgetting two simple things Firts one, a lot of time on the valve cover gaskets, the bolts may just be loose. Secondly on the water pump, remove a timing belt cover and see if you can see the leak, or the path back to the waterpump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Well you know once the water pump mechanically fails , the timing belt is still going to fall off (And probably get damaged), just there will be no engine damage. Of course waiting for a tow truck may not ne the best thing to do either. And with the holidays coming, murphies law will apply. I ignored one of these in a nissan once, and it took all of 10 days to go from leak to parts (of the water pump) all over the road. Just an FYI I agree with the water pump, I just wanted to make sure axgutt didn't think he had an interference engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 1997 is when the 2.2 started as interference motors. You might want to consider doing all the oil seals (besides HG) when he does the timing belt. Don't have time to explain now, search some of my older post I did it all when I had a clutch done I would leave the cam seals alone unless they are leaking, but change the crank seal and oil pump seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I would leave the cam seals alone unless they are leaking, but change the crank seal and oil pump seal. Disagree. There is a lot of labor to get to those seals, so its much cheaper and more effecient to do them while you are there. They rarely last past 150,000 miles, so essentially you are doing a timing belt job twice in one cycle. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Disagree. There is a lot of labor to get to those seals, so its much cheaper and more effecient to do them while you are there. They rarely last past 150,000 miles, so essentially you are doing a timing belt job twice in one cycle. nipper I have yet to see them go on a 2.2, but maybe this has to do with location? And most shops here in Colorado tell you do do the same, if they are not leaking leave them alone. I have done timing belts on mulitiple 200k 2.2 and have never done them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I have yet to see them go on a 2.2, but maybe this has to do with location? And most shops here in Colorado tell you do do the same, if they are not leaking leave them alone. I have done timing belts on mulitiple 200k 2.2 and have never done them yet. Ive had three 2.2's and 2 2.5s do it between 150-170,000 miles. There are many others on the board that have had cma seals done. Personally i would not want to be the one to tell a customer "oh well" 20,000 miles after a T belt change (or waterpump) and have them pay all that labor again for the lack of 15.00 in parts. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Is the rear cam seal on the passenger side as easy as it looks...Just undo the two bolts holding the cover on, then replace the seal and put the cover back on?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Is the rear cam seal on the passenger side as easy as it looks...Just undo the two bolts holding the cover on, then replace the seal and put the cover back on?? Yes. That's an o-ring at that location, not a seal. Emily http://www.ccrengines.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Is the rear cam seal on the passenger side as easy as it looks...Just undo the two bolts holding the cover on, then replace the seal and put the cover back on?? Yes it is just a cap with an o-ring in there; very easy to replace. There is also a cam cap on the LH, at least on this 2.2L: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Thats the O-ring part # I need? Why is there 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 hi. There's 2 o-rings because there is on at the front of the LH cam and one at the rear of the RH cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Yes. That's an o-ring at that location, not a seal. Emily http://www.ccrengines.com Emily, I just noticed that your bio is "Subaru Whisperer";) Quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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