Using a Sub in sub -22F

[rverdoold]

I am planning to have Christmass this year at my Girlfriends family in the wonderful Baltic country of Latvia. There will be some issues driving there in the winter. First problem driving on snowy roads is the lack of AWD in my '91 Legacy, but if you drive normally with snow tires and chains there is no problem. Things which interest me more are:

 

Coolant (night temperatures can go below -22F)

Oil, driving during day temps will be from 5 to -10F are there special oils i need for the engine.

Battery, think when it gets cold just take it out during the nights, problem this will clear ECU and TCU is this a problem to do it daily?

Any other things i should take care of?

[backwoodsboy]

During most of our winters here in the "hills" of upstate NY, it routinely gets that cold or worse, and can stay in those temp ranges for weeks at a time.

 

* If your battery is old, change it out. (more cold cranking amps = better)

I have never had a problem with a good/newer battery at only -20 degrees F

 

* Get a coolant tester if you dont have one, and test your coolant. A poor mix probably wont be bad in twenty below, but might slush up as you drive at those temps (been there)

 

* Change your oil to the lightest weight recommended.

 

* Buy a few bottles of drygas and use it.

 

* I pour a half a bottle of rubbing alcohol in my washer fluid to keep it from freezing as well.

 

* Silicone-spray your rubber door (and hood) seals. It really sucks to have a vehicle that is READY for the cold.... only to be frozen out of it! (also been there)

 

EDIT: Also, if youve never driven in temps like this, dont expect your car to be quite the same. Vehicles do strange things in the REAL cold weather. Things that always make some noise wont, and things that never make much noise WILL.

 

Im sure others will have more/better tips.

[rverdoold]

I have driven in cold weather but never with my own car (rented). Now in the mornings its getting colder here (well below 30F), the first 10km the car feels cold and tells it doesnt want to do anything sporty (try to never exceed more than 2500 rmp) It all needs to warm up.

 

Washing fluid is taken care of as a biochemist i have plenty of non-freezing safe chemicals like ethanol 100%.

 

What is it with the drygas?? maybe i know it under a different name but for now it doesnt ring a bell to me.

[mdoherty53]

I am planning to have Christmass this year at my Girlfriends family in the wonderful Baltic country of Latvia. There will be some issues driving there in the winter. First problem driving on snowy roads is the lack of AWD in my '91 Legacy, but if you drive normally with snow tires and chains there is no problem. Things which interest me more are:

 

Coolant (night temperatures can go below -22F)

Oil, driving during day temps will be from 5 to -10F are there special oils i need for the engine.

Battery, think when it gets cold just take it out during the nights, problem this will clear ECU and TCU is this a problem to do it daily?

Any other things i should take care of?[/quote

[backwoodsboy]

Drygas = HEET >>> http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/index.htm

 

Good stuff.

[ericem]

These cars were tested in freezing temps we would never see in the real world. They would put the car in a freezer and start it and test it to see if it ran. Thats one of the other great things of the early gen Legacy's the fact that they were so reliable in all temperatures and weather conditions you would never find! Coolant is coolant should not freeze(AS LONG as you are not using straight water!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and use spec'd oil for your car. Which I believe is 5w-30 for those temps, preferably synthetic is a good idea as the viscosity of the oil is still very good even at those temperatures. Don't be worried it's a Subaru

[montana105]

Straight anti freeze will also freeze quicker then 50/50 mix

[subsince77]

Our temps too are below what you describe for many weeks every winter. I have started and driven my outback at -37. The hard part is getting away from the woodstove and out the door. The Subaru works fine. Yup, it'll make some noises. We run an antifreeze mix around 70% - good to -40 something. You may find your tires are under inflated when you go from warm temps to sub-zero. I run 5/30 oil all year round, and now have started using Synth. I do use an oil pan heater (head bolt/plug heater would be better) when it is more than -10. I plug it in for a couple of hours in the morning. You can notice a pretty big difference on cranking. On our Nissan pickup it is even more noticeable - much less clatter.

[Towel Rail]

I've gone to synthetic 0W30 just in case we break our old record of -28°F this winter. :cool:

[daehttub2000]

You've received some excellent advice. I’ve done the Chicago to Northern Minnesota drive over the holidays and had several cars freeze up over the years (rainy in Chicago at 33 degrees to minus 25 degrees in Minnesota after a day or two). Here’s what I’ve learned (I’ll highlight some items that have not been mentioned yet):

 

1) Use synthetic motor oil.

 

2) If the battery is over 4 years old, buy a new one.

 

3) Put some isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol in your windshield fluid reservoir. The stuff you buy in warmer climates doesn’t work in the really cold places. Plus, if you constantly top off your washer fluid without running down to empty, it seems to “go bad” and lose it’s antifreeze properties. It’s no fun driving in the snow with no washer fluid. Run your wipers and washers until you can smell the alcohol so you’re sure you’ve flushed the old stuff out of your lines (front and back).

 

4) Buy one of those cheap antifreeze testers and check your car.

 

5) Fill up with an Ethanol blend gas (In the US it’s about 10%) or use Heet/Dry-Gas.

 

6) Get a block heater. You’ll probably see cars with electrical plugs sticking out of the grill. Anti-freeze will eventually freeze if it gets too cold.

 

7) Squirt that unfreeze stuff(alcohol stuff) into your door locks and follow it up with some graphite lubricant to chase out any residual moisture in those old car doors…

 

8) Don’t wash you car for at least a week prior to driving to the cold and pray it doesn’t rain right before your trip…

 

9) Spray some silicone on those old rubber car seals around the windows and edges and hope it prevents your car doors from freezing shut.

 

Happy Trails

 

[ericem]

Thats the good thing about Subaru's there is no door frame. Never experienced a door jamming in -35C with ice all over!! Why do we need to do all this???? Here in Canada I do nothing special and use non-synthetic and the car starts just like a hot day without any knocking, and no I do not have a block heater or w/e. I just do regular maintenance.

 

-22F is only -30C. I have driven and started in colder.........

[backwoodsboy]

I only offered some suggestions for (trouble free) driving. I think the key point is that the vehicle will be going "suddenly" into colder climates, from what I understood.

I HAVE been frozen out of my subaru before (both doors and hood) by dampness in the rubber seals.

 

Same as if you were going wheeling, or getting ready to drive through the desert. You probably wont NEED it, but.....being prepared is way better than being stuck.

[daehttub2000]

Rverdoold lives in the Netherlands according to his profile so he's probably near the sea (or at least below sea level:lol: ) where it's very damp and probably rainy/foggy this time of year. His old car is probably loaded with moisture that will freeze up (locks, windows, doors, etc.) when he hits the cold dry interior (interior condensation). He needs to be careful. I don't know about his 91 legacy but the door handles on my 95 are flimsy plastic and not designed for yanking open frozen doors (think crawling into the backseat and pushing open the door).

 

I have this problem whenever I drive from Chicago (I live next to the lake) and head into northern Minnesota/Wisconsin/Michigan to partake in the crazy Scandinavian ritual of XC skiing. It's almost guaranteed that it will freeze up unless I park it in a heated garage for an extended period of time to dry it out or take some of the above mentioned precautions.

 

I've had my windows, door locks/doors, windshield washer fluid, and (on a non-subaru) throttle cable, freeze up on me. It's not fun when a throttle cable freezes at 70mph...

 

P.S. Bring along a can of fix-a-flat as older tires/rims can go flat when it gets super cold

 

Personally, I'd rent/hire a newer car if you want to impress your girlfriends parents

[ericem]

The door handles are steer or alloy or something?? Definitely not a plastic

[porcupine73]

I don't know exactly what model years this bulletin applies to, but it may be of interest (may only be applicable for US spec soobs too)

 

NUMBER: 09-34-96

 

DATE: 09/13/96

 

APPLICABILITY:

LEGACY, IMPREZA, AND SVX WITH EGR

 

SUBJECT:

FUEL INJECTOR REPLACEMENT

 

If you should receive a customer complaint of a Legacy, Impreza, or SVX being difficult to start, after a long cool down period (such as overnight) under extremely cold temperatures and high relative humidity, it has been found that under these conditions ice may build up at the tip of the injector and cause a no start or hard start condition. OBDII equipped vehicles will illuminate the MIL and exhibit trouble codes, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304 (P0305 and P0306 for SVX).

 

A newly designed injector is now available to prevent the condition. All injectors should be replaced with the newly designed injector as a set of 4 (6 for SVX).

[daehttub2000]

The door handles are steer or alloy or something?? Definitely not a plastic

 

ericem:

 

You're probably correct. I meant to say that the 95 Legacy door handles are really flimsy and not designed for yanking open frozen doors. I'm not sure what the 91 Legacy door handles are like.

[daehttub2000]

I don't know exactly what model years this bulletin applies to, but it may be of interest (may only be applicable for US spec soobs too)

 

NUMBER: 09-34-96

 

DATE: 09/13/96

 

APPLICABILITY:

LEGACY, IMPREZA, AND SVX WITH EGR

 

SUBJECT:

FUEL INJECTOR REPLACEMENT

 

If you should receive a customer complaint of a Legacy, Impreza, or SVX being difficult to start, after a long cool down period (such as overnight) under extremely cold temperatures and high relative humidity, it has been found that under these conditions ice may build up at the tip of the injector and cause a no start or hard start condition. OBDII equipped vehicles will illuminate the MIL and exhibit trouble codes, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304 (P0305 and P0306 for SVX).

 

A newly designed injector is now available to prevent the condition. All injectors should be replaced with the newly designed injector as a set of 4 (6 for SVX).

 

I don't know about the 91 Legacy but the 95 Legacy's O2 sensors would always freeze up when cold (moisture?) and cause the CEL light to come on. After helping the Subaru Dealer send his kids to college with numerous O2 replacements:mad: , I finally found the technical service bulletin about the problem and simply ignore it now.

[Kilroy]

If you are concerned about the battery you can always purchase a 'battery blanket'. It wraps around the battery and plugs in, just like a block heater. It will keep the battery warm enough that it will not freeze. I worked on the oil rigs and everyone had block heaters and battery blankets. We worked 12 hour shifts and it would get down as low as -56C on some nights, at least -45C most nights in January and February. After a night working outside in that kind of cold, you can bet your @$$ all we wanted to do was get to our lodging and crawl into a warm bed, so we took all the precautions possible to be sure we could leave.

[rverdoold]

Ok back from few days not at home.

Yep live here in holland in a very wet and moist environment, about 100 miles from the coastline though safely 25 meters above (current) sea level:lol: .

Anyway its so moist that if i dont use the car for a week it will not start trouble free, just moist no CEL though just runs very rough but after 2 to 4 minutes it will be fine.

No need to impress girlfriends parents, (renting a car is just way over budget 1000 euros for 2 weeks) was there in summer with same car. The winters there are very dry and cold. Actually you can dry cloths outside there, the water will evaporate because the humidity is even lower.

 

I got some stuff:

• 4 snow tires (Well 1 season used last year, had them already, its obligatory to use in Germany)
  
• Battery
  
• jumpstarter cables
  
• Coolant was to -20F (still doubting about that, can take some out and add some pure stuff, it will mix itself)
  
• 5-30w oil + new filter (changed 8k km ago)
  
• washer fluid is taken care of with IPA (iso propyl alcohol)
  
• have a air compressor in the car so can inflate tires up to 20 bar:eek: (not that i wanted to)
  
• Locks are cleaned and fine

Since i use this car daily without trouble i dont expect it to give problems, we had some freezing nights already. The only problem i had is the lack of heated seats

[Skip]

As you say

"Anyway its so moist that if i dont use the car for a week it will not start trouble free, just moist no CEL though just runs very rough but after 2 to 4 minutes it will be fine."

 

I think I'd get some new (from Subaru) sparking plug wires.

 

You don't need this beast challenging the battery any further

in those temps.

 

Sounds like all your other bases (aside from your butt)

are covered.

 

As the Aussies say

'ere's gid onya mate!

[destey]

I think the key point is that the vehicle will be going "suddenly" into colder climates, from what I understood.

I HAVE been frozen out of my subaru before (both doors and hood) by dampness in the rubber seals.

 

That's a great point. The cabin heat warms the body of the car. When the vehicle is turned off, the drop in temperature will cause moisture to condense on it.

 

I have a (wacky) technique of driving with the windows down for the last minute of my drive to cool down the inside of the car. I've found this to help with window frosting as well. A wiser soul would just leave the doors open for a minute after he gets out. But that doesn't get quizzicle looks

 

(edited for sentence flow)

[rverdoold]

An other question though. What about the transmission oil. I knew with manual it was neccesary to put it in the right place because the oil became to thick. Dexron2 seems quit liquid though.

[ericem]

Dextron 3 should be better.

[mnwolftrack]

It routinely gets below -22F here in wintertime, and I don't do anything special other than run slightly thinner oil viscosity during the cold months. I also like to run synthetic in everything (engine, transmission, differentials).

 

If all you are talking about is a few days worth of visiting someone, you have nothing to worry about.

 

If your battery is weak, the cold temps are going to tell you so. But a standard size battery will have no problem turning the engine over. I'm not even sure if a block warmer is available for these cars. They do make battery warmers, but again, it's overkill on today's modern engines. We're not talking about trying to get the battery to crank over a monster 1970's V8 engine. I can't even recall anyone I know who still plugs their car in at night to keep it warm. It's so 1970's!

 

If your coolant is aging or not mixed to the right ratio (varies per brand), then your coolant may freeze. Have this checked or go buy your own $5 tester at the local store.

 

as previously mentioned, cars can make downright WEIRD AND SCARY noises when it's that cold. Try not to get too panicked about it. Things creak, groan, whine, and crack like never before. Some of it goes away once the engine has warmed up. Some of the noises do not. Often, the suspension gets a little stiffer too when it's that cold. Rubber bushings and what-not get a little stiffer, making for a bouncy ride.