pamike Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 90 legacy started running rough today. it has a very rough idle and while accelerating the car shakes and stumbles like its running out of gas. the only thing i can think of is i got gas earlier and shortly after it started this. after setting a few hours i started it and it ran fine until i got about a quarter mile down the road and it started running bad like it was. it runs the worst when the engine is under load. i'm getting a knock sensor code maybe from it running rough? but does it sound like bad gas to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I am betting you got a bad tank of gas. Suggest adding a can of "dry gas" to your gas tank. Product is available at gas stations and auto parts stores under a variety of trade names. If you ask for some "dry gas" you will get the right type of product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 i'm getting a knock sensor code maybe from it running rough? The knock sensor code is making it run rough. The knock sensor code always indicates a problem with the knock sensor circuit. It never indicates the ECU is detecting knock. So it is retarding timing to the max, and that causes poor fuel economy, lost power, and possibly rough idling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 "Bad Gas" is extreemely uncommon. As in when it happens, TONS of folks will be complaining, and it will make the news. I vote for checking on your knock sensor/circuit. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 is the knock sensor round with a bolt through the middle and a 1 wire connecter. on top of the engine. anyone know the price of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 i got a used sensor today. the good news is that the engine light is out. it also has a oxygen sensor code so the knock sensor must have been throwing that code somehow to. the bad news is it's still running bad. every once in a while it will idle normally. it ran fine when i started it and after i went up the road a few hundred feet it started running rough again. any more ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 How long since new fuel filter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 have not replaced the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I can't say with any authority here but I don't know that the knock sensor has anything to do with the O2 sensor but each on their own can cause driveability problems as can a fuel filter.I understand that if the O2 sensor is bad it could throw a lean situation to the injectors which could cause knock which of course would trigger the knock sensor which would throw the ECM into panic mode,but low fuel pressure could trigger both of these also in tandem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 a while back i put a new o2 sensor in but the engine light stayed on. last night i pulled the codes and got one for the knock sensor and one for the o2 sensor(which had been their before). when i replaced the knock sensor both the codes went away. the only thing i know is the car ran fine all weekend until i got gas and went up to my dads place. after that it ran like $hit. when the engine is under load it shakes very bad and somtimes makes a popping sound like a backfire. it comes from under the hood and somtimes sound like it's coming from the left side other times the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If your O2 and Knock Sensor codes cleared after replacing the knock sensor then you don't have to worry about those. You need to start with the basics. Spark plugs, wires, air and fuel filter. I'm not saying you HAVE to replace all of them, I'm say that is what you need to check. If any of those items need replacing, that is were you start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpy Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Pearl, my 90 LegacyLS started acting the same last night. Started at freeway speeds (65) and I thought all the vibration was the axle at first but when I pulled off the next exit at the red light it shakes like it's a big block with radical cam in it. Then no power pulling away form the light. Limped home and today it is still acting the same. I fear it is the head gasket or worse scenario!! Took a quart of water and still kept going down but had bubbles coming up before it did. No water in the oil at least. Need to find my conecters to check the codes as the Check Engine Light comes on from time to time but doesn't stay on. Have you checked what is going on with the oil/water in your? Hope yours turns out to be an easy fix compared to mine. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I'm gonna go with Walker on this.I also would start at basics since you don't imply any regular maintenance.I wouldn't spend any more money on sensors until you know the rest of the system(s) is/are working correctly.Spark plugs/wires,air and fuel filters are regular maintenance items,these things effect your sensors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpy Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I am so happy to have been wrong about Pearl's problems. After some investigation today I discovered that #1 plug is oil fouled. Changed that out and she runs smooth once again. Not sure about the water/coolant loss but yesterday I apperantly didn't give it enough time for all the air in the rad to escape and that is where the bubbles were coming from. I'll have to keep a closer eye on the coolant level now. So listen to the others and check the basics. Stumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 I'm gonna go with Walker on this.I also would start at basics since you don't imply any regular maintenance.I wouldn't spend any more money on sensors until you know the rest of the system(s) is/are working correctly.Spark plugs/wires,air and fuel filters are regular maintenance items,these things effect your sensors. all of the above are ok except for when i checked the fuel filter. i pulled the line between filter and engine and pumped some into a bottle. what i found was alot of dirt on the bottom of the bottle and brown gas. it smelled like gas but didn't have a very strong gas smell. so i changed the filter and it still runs rough. so now i'm kinda sure it's the gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Did somebody sugar your tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 no. it ran fine all weekend on the gas that was in their. i ran the car around that morning and it ran fine. like i said before, it started shortly after getting gas. thats why i was thinking bad gas. so the knock sensor code must have been their before this happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Like was mentioned before it is almost unheard of anymore to get a bad batch of fuel. Did you happen to switch brands or get some rich ethanol or oxygenated fuel that wiped all the crud out of your tank and lines.Also did you say you pulled the line from the filter to the engine or from the tank to the filter. Not to scare you but is anyone else thinking this might be in the valve train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 same gas i always get at the same place. i pulled the line from the filter to the engine. but then changed the filter, the gas is foggy and brown looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Yes but have you asked the operator if they perhaps bought some cheap fuel or from another rack.I'll have to do some checking about the foggy fuel,fuel should be clear and strong smelling but really unless there is a very high amount of moisture in the fuel it shouldn't cause your concerns,anywhere from 0 moisture up to 20 gallons of water in a 20000 gallon tank system should never cause problems as ours will shut down when there is less then 800 gallons of fuel and the way the turbines are set up will never pump the bottom which is where water will settle.You didn't by chance get some diesel in your tank did you,diesel is usually as clear as gas anymore,but I guess it could be cloudy mixed with gas or when cold.Any excessive smoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 no smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpy Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 no smoke Any progress on this yet? The basics got Pearl runing smooth again but according to richierich the cooling system is getting exhaust gasses in it. So I guess I'll be doing that head gasket some time in the near future any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 17, 2007 Author Share Posted November 17, 2007 because i was thinking fuel. i went to another station and filled the rest of the way up with 93 octane. it seemed to get a little better. it's kind of intermitent now. it will also idle smooth most of the time. we were fighting with the manager of the gas station about the bad gas. she said they tested it and it was fine. she also tried to tell me someone had dumped dirt in my tank. when i told her that my soob had a locking gas door she got all pissy and didn't wanna talk anymore. also found out a friend of mine went their one time with his new ford and it ran like $hit for a while. i was talking to a guy at work to, he said it wasn't recently but he got bad gas there in his eagle one time. he hasn't gone there since. i don't know if it matters or not but the day after i got the gas i seen them filling the tank. could they have left it get low and i got water/dirt that was in the tank. we have another station up town that shut down a while back and just reopened. i found out yesterday that they were selling bad gas and then they shut down. i never heard about it until yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana105 Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 It would be very near impossible to get water or dirt from a low tank, it would have to be an instance where there was say 500 gallons of water in a 5000 gallon tank.My pumps shut down at approx 700 gallons The fuel you get at the nozzle is not pumped from the bottom of the tank,hence in reality even though a station may be out of fuel there is still upwards of 400 to 700 gallons of whatever in the bottom and if something was able to make it to the pump it should be caught by the pump filter. I would say you would be more likely to get bad fuel right after a delivery when things are all stirred up.the station operator would be well advised to do a water paste stick test and if there is a problem get it fixed before the State shows up to perform tests(hint-hint) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamike Posted November 17, 2007 Author Share Posted November 17, 2007 i'll run some of this gas out then refill with the good stuff again and i'll let you know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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