Numbchux Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 OK, I did a clutch job this morning, pulled the motor (so I could replace my rusty oil pan too). put it all back together, and it won't start, barely cranks over. First thought is that theres something binding in the clutch/flywheel/starter, but it's acting just like it has a dead battery....so I jump it with a known good battery (meanwhile cussing that my Red Top has failed me), with no change.....well.......the battery's good, so that's good, right?! well, after some fiddling, I find that it's the relay within the starter (ign on, hotwire the starter straight from the battery....same symptom). so I get out my hammer, give the starter a few good raps....and it works fine. I think I'm good to go. I go to work tonight (pizza deliver....lots of starting....oh boy!), and get to the first house (at which point it start overheating! crap....didn't get the coolant system burped all the way....but I brought extra coolant for just that reason, so no big deal), deliver the pizza, go out to start the car, and no go. same symptoms, I get out my 1/2" ratchet (left the hammer at home), and whack the starter a few times, after a few tries, it goes again, and is good for hours. this song and dance continues all night, happening at least 4 times. and of course, this is in an area where I would never leave my keys in the car, ever. if I'm on a hill, and pop the clutch to start it, it starts up fine, but the starter just can't turn it over fast enough. so, it's the starter....I've established that. it seems to me that this is a somewhat common failure. but a quick search didn't turn up anything conclusive. I can see how this relay could wear out over time, and intermittently give me troubles.....but how could it go to working 100% of the time, I do the clutch job, and get about a 70% success rate, if that. so.....coincidence? did I break something? is it fixable? I need to have this car working tomorrow (Sunday) evening for work again.....if worse comes to worse, I can pull the one off the '86 sitting here, but it's not a parts car, so I want to call that beyond the last resort.... also, I may have the starter left from the 3AT somewhere. any chance that would work?! days like this I wish I had a stock car with a warranty so someone else could deal with it I'm just so mad at the car. on the good side....the rest of the project went well....and the $100 closeout XT6 Beck/Arnley clutch kit I got from RockAuto works very well. plenty strong to hold the power of the EJ22, but very smooth, wonderful for daily driving!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Rocky did the same thing..a sudden starter failure...I have an extra one laying around but that wont help you...If I remember right the one from the AT will turn faster but its a direct swap ( I went through this whole mess..cause they didnt look the same LOL)..So I would just swap it out quick..also clean all the connections to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 the other starter will work. If tapping it makes a difference, then its probably the starter at fault; if you replace the starter and get the same symptoms, look for my relay info writeup in the USRM electrical section.. that will tell you ALL you want to know about the likely culprit, should another starter behave the same way. My swiss-cheese sedan is a pizzamobile, too.. so I feel for you. I was having starter problems when I FIRST got the job, shortly before joining here... It adds up. Sometimes you hit that key 20-30 times in a night without blinking at it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 It sounds like the solenoid contacts are worn out in the starter. You can replace those pretty easily with new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 I'm just extremely baffled as to how it could have failed on me when I did the clutch job....ugh....I wanted to sleep in today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Ahem, I have your answer: You disturbed the monsters peace, things like this always happen to me on my car, I spend money on it for the best parts, do everything, check and recheck everything I did, and wham, the thing I worked on either isnt fixed, or something toatally unrelated broke. I dont know but I think we are shareing a car demon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted November 18, 2007 Author Share Posted November 18, 2007 well, I pulled the starter off....pulled the cap off the end, and the brushes were filthy. I hit them with a wire brush, some compressed air, and electrical cleaner. put it back together, and got about 15 good starts just sitting in the driveway..... hopefully that solves it :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 I'd be hunting up another starter, just incase................... Cold weather is coming, that will put added strain on starter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 clutch dust?after all, hitting it would loosen the dust each time.:-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Get on eBay and hunt down a starter contact kit. My Toyota, which has a starter very similar in design to subarus, started having issues. A starter was very expensive. The $20 kit, which replaced all contacts and plungers and stuff, was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Partial rebuild? FTW nice, I love that kind of stuff. I wonder if there are full rebuild kits out there... I doubt it :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 well, I pulled the starter off....pulled the cap off the end, and the brushes were filthy. I hit them with a wire brush, some compressed air, and electrical cleaner. put it back together, and got about 15 good starts just sitting in the driveway..... hopefully that solves it :-\ That;s GREAT, thats exactly what I had to do before my first day of delivering Pizzas. It lasted me about three months, but I totally disassembled, cleaned, relubriacted, and re assembled the thing with three acceptable brushes (one great, one OK, one tolerable) and one brush that MAY have still been doing something... Three months of never hesitating to cut the car off at a delivery, but it eventually failed. I'd be hunting up another starter, just incase................... Cold weather is coming, that will put added strain on starter... Which makes this that much more poignant. Find a Junkyard starter. Do to it, what you have already done to your failed unit. Keep it in the car until the other one dies. Even WITH a fivespeed (I have a 3AT) its STILL a royal PITA when you have no starter. IN the meantime, though, I would say +1 on what my dad called "the cuban rebuild" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 well, it worked every time tonight. and I probably made a third more deliveries tonight than last (27 tonight...). I'll keep my eye open for a new starter, and/or new brushes. Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Partial rebuild? FTW nice, I love that kind of stuff. I wonder if there are full rebuild kits out there... I doubt it :-\ You can purchase brushes and solenoid contacts from parts suppliers. These are the real wear items along with the bendix gear, if that is needed. A starter is pretty easy to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundedbrat Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 This is sort of off topic so forgive please but I noticed a lot of talk about deliveries. This caught my eye cuz I to am a pizza delivery person I wonder how many of us out there are? I don't use my brat now cuz the place I work for has it's own van but when I live in Fresno Ca I did use my brat when I worked for pizza hut. good job for when your going to school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 You can purchase brushes and solenoid contacts from parts suppliers. These are the real wear items along with the bendix gear, if that is needed. A starter is pretty easy to rebuild. Rebuilding starters was one of our competencys or whatever their called at EVIT for auto electrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 This is sort of off topic so forgive please but I noticed a lot of talk about deliveries. This caught my eye cuz I to am a pizza delivery person I wonder how many of us out there are? I don't use my brat now cuz the place I work for has it's own van but when I live in Fresno Ca I did use my brat when I worked for pizza hut. good job for when your going to school. Thats the OP, yourself, and yours truly sounding off on the pizza duty thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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