Pros and Cons of Dual Range VS. AWD ??

[cole098]

Does anyone have past driver experience with the dual range subaru trans and subaru's ALL WHEEL DRIVE SYSTEM ? What are the pros and cons of each while driving in snow and ice ???

 

I have never owned a ALL WHEEL DRIVE SUBIE...

 

So Dual Range or ALL WHEEL IN SNOW AND ICE, which is better for deep snow and getting unstuck, which provides better traction ?

[MSSLGECKO]

It depends what you're doing. What do you intend to do with it?

 

AWD is smoother for on-road driving and dirt/snowy roads. If you're going slowly in a lot of snow, it's good to have 4WD and Lo Range. 4WD gives the 50:50 split (it will get you unstuck better), while the AWD will try to transfer power between the front and rear which can be fun. Lo range is a great if you want bigger tires or do climbs.

 

I would say if it's on regularly plowed roads and you don't get stuck, AWD; For everything else, 4WD, IMO.

[cole098]

Strictly On road driving, no lift kit or anything .... Just simple big storm deep snow driving. When the plow truck blocks the car in on the street ...

[cole098]

I need some feedback on AWD vs. the old Dual Range 4wd .

 

I have only ever owned a dual range subie never a AWD.

 

I only drive on stone driveway and paved roads. No lift kits or anything like that ...

 

Just want some feedback from someome that has driven both in deep snow and ice. Which one is better ? Which one is better for getting unstuck from deep snow ? Just trying to decide if I should upgrade to AWD...

 

Thanks ...

[4x4_Welder]

Strictly AWD with no diff lock will get you much more stuck than 2wd will. Even a viscous or limited slip lock will get you way worse- the one tire on the car with the least traction gets all the power, if the power transfer is too slow then that one tire that was spinning will have melted whatever was under it, making it even slicker, and will contribute nothing to forward progress.

I like d/r, but it's also a matter of know when to use it- if you go down a snowy road locked up, you will loose it a lot sooner than in 2wd. If you get stuck locked up, you are looking at getting towed out.

 

[Manarius]

Repeat thread...

 

In my opinion, a good set of snow tires makes a world of difference. In AWD or 4WD low, the best split you can get 50/50 anyways, so you're not really making any difference. For ease of use, I think AWD is better, but that's for ease.

[cole098]

What do you mean locked up ???? It sounds like the dual range is better, I wonder why subaru didnt stick with the dual range ..

 

Strictly AWD with no diff lock will get you much more stuck than 2wd will. Even a viscous or limited slip lock will get you way worse- the one tire on the car with the least traction gets all the power, if the power transfer is too slow then that one tire that was spinning will have melted whatever was under it, making it even slicker, and will contribute nothing to forward progress.

I like d/r, but it's also a matter of know when to use it- if you go down a snowy road locked up, you will loose it a lot sooner than in 2wd. If you get stuck locked up, you are looking at getting towed out.

 

 

[woundedbrat]

I prefer the d/r life is all about choices and with the dual range you have three variations fwd for economy and speed 4wd hi for tearing it up and 4wd lo when towing hil climbing or sticky icky (mud that is)

[crazyhorse001]

What do you mean locked up ???? It sounds like the dual range is better, I wonder why subaru didnt stick with the dual range ..

AWD is a better full time solution. If more than 70% of your driving is on fairly well maintained roads, AWD. If more than 30% of it is on unplowed/ unimproved roads then 4WD/DR.

 

To boil it down, if you spend more than 1/4 of your driving in 4wd, then stick with 4WD. If less than three quarters is in 2WD then AWD will give you a more secure on road experience.

[cole098]

I guess Im afraid of change LOL ... I was so use to my old dual range. If I was in a parking space with really deep snow I never had to shovel out... JUST DRIVE on out of it ...

 

There is a street that is paved but so steep that the plow trucks never ever plow. Jeeps get stuck trying to make it up the hill.

The kids sleigh ride on it, well one day I was at the bottom and asked the kids if they thought I would make it up, They yelled NO WAY, jeeps, SUV's always get stuck ..

Well guess what that old dual range went up it NO PROBLEM. The car started to climb at a 45 but still went up it ..

So Im wondering would a AWD make the same hill ...

[Sushi]

If we are talking about an EA car here, don't all the AWD trannys have a diff locker anyways? You can use AWD anywhere, and still keep the 4x4 for difficult spots

[Numbchux]

Strictly AWD with no diff lock will get you much more stuck than 2wd will. Even a viscous or limited slip lock will get you way worse-

 

well, an unlimited center diff doesn't exist in the subaru world....so that's not an issue.

 

and a functioning center VLSD will not easily slip!

 

 

I've had essentially every subaru 5MT combination there is....PT4WD D/R, FT4WD D/R, and simple AWD in my '94 Legacy. we took the legacy out bombing through fields in a foot or more of powder, following a Jeep on 35" tires. bogged down a couple times, but 2nd gear and hold the throttle down....and it'll pull right out!

 

the only disadvantage the legacy ever had over the others, is an open rear diff. all my EA82s had an LSD in the rear by the time I was driving them much in the snow. that rear LSD makes almost as much of a difference as switching from bald all-seasons to high performance snow tires.

 

 

 

only times I've ever been stuck in snow, with any setup, are when it's so deep and heavy, that the snow is supporting the bulk of the weight of the car, and usually all 4 (sometimes just 3...) tires are spinning. so at stock height, you won't notice a difference.

 

 

 

IMO (and I drive through a lot of snow here in northern MN), the biggest difference you'll notice is the loss in mileage when you'd have your EA trans in FWD. so you need to decide whether you want the AWD traction on dry pavement (Something I wouldn't sacrifice on a stock-height car) enough to justify the loss in mileage.

 

 

 

 

oh yea, and there's a road here in Duluth that's too steep and is cobblestone, so they don't plow it either. I always go there when it snows.....I've never had to back down it (knock on wood), FT4WD, PT4WD, AWD, whatever. and the AWD car was at a disadvantage anyway without the rear LSD. snow is where independent suspension excels, because the differentials are tucked neatly up out of the way, where they're hanging down like anchors on those Jeeps/SUVs

[Manarius]

I guess Im afraid of change LOL ... I was so use to my old dual range. If I was in a parking space with really deep snow I never had to shovel out... JUST DRIVE on out of it ...

 

There is a street that is paved but so steep that the plow trucks never ever plow. Jeeps get stuck trying to make it up the hill.

The kids sleigh ride on it, well one day I was at the bottom and asked the kids if they thought I would make it up, They yelled NO WAY, jeeps, SUV's always get stuck ..

Well guess what that old dual range went up it NO PROBLEM. The car started to climb at a 45 but still went up it ..

So Im wondering would a AWD make the same hill ...

I don't see why not. Snows and AWD is just as good as Dual Range + Snows...

[DaveT]

On a slightly different angle...

 

For on street only. (or at least no "real" 4 wheelin)

 

With AWD you have to have all 4 tires the same. And rotate them more often to avoid strain on the driveline on dry pavement.

 

With switchable 4WD you can cheat and use slightly less than identical pairs, since you have the choice to switch on the 4WD if the road is slippery. I've saved lots of $ over the years, using up the odd pairs of tires that came on the various used subies I have owned.

[86BRATMAN]

I'll have to say that in my area, and for my uses, that my mom's 98 legacy and my old 86 brat have a dead even rating. I prefer the awd side of things because I'm not into off-roading and I rarely use 4wd unless its in a good thick snow or the driveway at one of my friends houses when its muddy. Either way, you can't go wrong with a subaru awd setup.

 

One test my mom's car has passed with flying colors is a dead stop 60 degree ice covered hill. It didn't slip a wheel, just pulled out and went.

[GeneralDisorder]

I say AWD. You can modulate the brakes to stop a tire from spinning too much, and if most of your driving is "on-road" without a lift or anything, then AWD is the way to go. Makes wet pavement a lot easier.

 

GD

[daehttub2000]

Wow, there were only 2 posts in New Gen on this thread. Here's my 2 cents from the New Gen Board:

---------------------------------------

 

The choice between AWD versus the old-fashioned “locked hub” hi/lo 4WD depends on a few things. I think that the increasingly common addition of a limited slip rear differential to AWD cars have relegated the old-fashioned hi/lo 4WD systems to pasture (literally). Besides pulling tree stumps, tandem horse trailers in the mud, or climbing cliffs, I don’t see any advantages to the old system unless you like stopping, getting out, and locking your hubs in the mud/snow:lol:

 

But seriously, IMHO, the new AWD systems with limited slip diffs are safer and more affective unless (as Nipper pointed out) you always drive in a straight line and never turn. Think of your old Red Flyer wagon and what happened when you turned/pulled around a corner too fast. The fixed axle causes the outside wheel on each axle to skid and lose traction. Remember those downhill wipeouts? If you were brighter than I was when I was a kid, probably not…

 

However, AWD without limited slip front and/or rear differentials can leave you stuck or sliding down a slick hill where the old 4WD’s would grind it out. Think of it as having two separate 2-wheel drive systems when all 4 wheels are slipping on the ice and snow, the Achilles heel of the standard Subie AWD system.

 

Now all we need are standard front AND rear limited slip diffs for us AWD gearheads:cool:

[GeneralDisorder]

The choice between AWD versus the old-fashioned “locked hub” hi/lo 4WD depends on a few things. I think that the increasingly common addition of a limited slip rear differential to AWD cars have relegated the old-fashioned hi/lo 4WD systems to pasture (literally). Besides pulling tree stumps, tandem horse trailers in the mud, or climbing cliffs, I don’t see any advantages to the old system unless you like stopping, getting out, and locking your hubs in the mud/snow:lol:

 

No Subaru ever made has had "locking hubs". Even a '75 4WD wagon (the first 4WD Subaru) was shift on the go, and no stopping, getting out, or locking of anything besides the flip of a lever was required.

 

But seriously, IMHO, the new AWD systems with limited slip diffs are safer and more affective unless (as Nipper pointed out) you always drive in a straight line and never turn. Think of your old Red Flyer wagon and what happened when you turned/pulled around a corner too fast. The fixed axle causes the outside wheel on each axle to skid and lose traction. Remember those downhill wipeouts? If you were brighter than I was when I was a kid, probably not…

 

That has nothing to do with Subaru's unless you are talking about those of us with Welded diffs. Even then it's not an informed comment of any kind of worth.

 

I say AWD for you as well..... but not for ^those^ reasons.

 

GD

[daehttub2000]

Wow, there’s a discernible lack of humor on the part of one Old Gen’er here. I was just having a bit of New Gen fun with my facetious farm references to the Ford Pickup Truck 4WD locking hub system.

My technical discussion was referring to AWD versus part-time 4WD, which is still offered on some 2008 SUV models (Jeep).

I was under the impression that the older generation Subaru 4WD systems were similar part-time 4WD systems that are not to be driven on dry pavement for the same wheel skipping, transmission/axle killing reasons.

A second opinion/flaming would be appreciated.

[Numbchux]

My technical discussion was referring to AWD versus part-time 4WD, which is still offered on some 2008 SUV models (Jeep).

 

and completely irrelevant since we're talking about pre-1994 subaru PT4WD/FT4WD systems. not 2008 Jeeps.

 

 

yes, you are right, that true 4WD with a locked (or non-existant) center diff cannot be used on the street. however, it takes only a moment (via the flip of a lever or push of a button...no getting out of the car) to engage/lock the center once you've gotten to where FWD/unlocked have fallen short.

 

and a LSD rear can be added to a 4WD subaru just as easily as an AWD one.

 

 

 

your arguments are somewhat valid.....but only in that a rear LSD makes a much bigger difference than what you have in the center.

 

 

also, by putting down the old gen systems, you're not exactly endearing yourself to the OP as a knowledgeable person on the subject. since he quite likes them.....

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Cole you need to do some research and find out the differences between AWD and 4WD. Then it will be easier for you to decide which you would preffer.

 

the Dual Range 4WD will be better if you are driving in deep snow.

 

If you are driving on pavement and wet pavement than the AWD would be better.

 

4WD and AWD are near identical, except 4WD has no center diff so your front and rear axles are recieving 50/50 front and rear.

 

AWD has an open center diff so you can get 100/0, 70/30, 50/50, etc... depending on which wheels have more traction. In snow, it can leave you stranded.

 

Your better off keeping your Dual Range 4WD.

 

-Brian

 

p.s.

Some more advanced Subaru AWD systems have variable control center diff's which will direct more power to the front or rear. And some EA82's with Full Time 4WD (Early AWD) have locking center diff's which are equal to the Dual Range 4WD when locked.

[SakoTGrimes]

In my personal opinion, old Jeep/truck style 4WD is superior than AWD for extreme conditions (ice, deep snow, mud) I would much rather have all my wheels spinning at the same rate so when one catches traction it can be useful in moving the vehicle, rather than AWD, which can cut power to tractionless wheels.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

I thought the same once, until I got my parents jeep stuck. The part time 4WD works the same as the Subaru's Dual Range 4WD system. But the center of gravity being so much higher really screws you in snow.

 

I didnt think it made that big of a difference, until I tried to drive through 3' of powder... and not only got stuck but dug some really nasty ruts with the 33" tires i had at the time.

 

But the new jeeps with their Sensatrac system works kinda like Subaru's AWD system.

 

-Brian

[Gloyale]

AWD 4EAT automatic with "C" solenoid switch(locked center)

 

Best of all worlds, not the easiest conversion though

[Virrdog]

Both systems with the same snow tires = near dead even.

 

With 4wd you have very consistent grip. It will understeer understeer understeer all day. The downside is you have to know when to put it in and there are rare circumstances where you have in-betweener roads that won't really let you use 4wd without binding up stuff.

 

With AWD you have the extra traction all the time without having to choose it. The downside is the traction is not quite as consistent. This is worsened with the extra torque from the turbo EJ engines. You can go from understeer to oversteer and anywhere inbetween depending on where the torque is going.

 

So bottomline, AWD is easier for donuts. With snow tires either system works just fine in the deep snow.

 

P.S. - I learned this from personal experience. I would have sided with the 4wd (<-- I've owned many over the years) until I drove my Legacy last year with studded snows. I slowly drove through 15" compacted drifts like they weren't there. Whereas my 4wd wagon with all-seasons would struggle to accomplish the same thing. But no worries, both are on studded snows this year.