Pros and Cons of Dual Range VS. AWD ??

[idosubaru]

"dual range" has nothing to do with this as a strict comparison. i guess it does if you're talking about dual range because that's what you already have.

 

in terms of snow driving there's no difference between the old school dual range and single range transmissions or the XT6 AWD transmissions, they will have the same performance for what you're talking about.

 

and the XT6 transmission is an AWD transmission, but it has a center differential lock. so are you asking about the differences between EA versus EJ (no center diff lock)?

 

the key is the ability to lock the center differential, which is definitely better in the snow. any EA manual trans allows you to do that, the newer AWD does not. in the snow driving i've done the EJ transmissions are nice but there is no comparison to having a locked diff.

 

EA (or ER - XT6) manual transmissions are superior in the snow/off road considering you can actually lock the differential.

 

for the newer EJ stuff i think it sucks they don't have the ability to lock the center diff. with the automatics you can funtionally "lock" the rear transfer clutches using the duty C switch mod. in that case the automatics outperform the manuals considering you can lock them which you can't in the manuals.

 

speaking of differentials, the clutch style are better than the viscous style for the "stuck verses unstuck" situations you're talking about in the snow.

 

to be master of snow, snow tires will be a far better investment and safety upgrade over the differences between dual range and AWD.

[Numbchux]

AWD has an open center diff

 

not the case...the EJ AWD systems use a pretty strong VLSD in the center.

[BlueTrain]

y'know i hardly ever even switch into 4wd unless it gets REALLY sketchy. 2wd and decent tires works for me about 90% of the time.

[mr_whirly]

Truth be told I'd rather be in my 1989 GL Wagon 5 spd D/R in a snowstorm than my AWD OBS. Been in snow in both: my 1989 in 4wd is ON RAILS in the snow and its nice having "Lo" on reserve.....OBS does good but not awesome like my ol' touriing wagon!!!!

 

just my EXPERIENCE.

[Virrdog]

Truth be told I'd rather be in my 1989 GL Wagon 5 spd D/R in a snowstorm than my AWD OBS. Been in snow in both: my 1989 in 4wd is ON RAILS in the snow and its nice having "Lo" on reserve.....OBS does good but not awesome like my ol' touriing wagon!!!!

 

just my EXPERIENCE.

Have you had the OBS on narrow dedicated snow tires?

 

It seems the GL's are more likely to seem more capable in snow because of a couple of things: factory clearance is high, low hanging plastic plow creating content is low, tires are naturally narrow with 13" wheels, and dedicated snow tires (+wheels) are very cheap to come by in said 13" size... and not to mention lower power feels like it equals more traction.

 

But my sport sedan with the correct tires rocked!

[cole098]

WOW, Thanks to all of you for taking the time to answer my thread.

 

Im sure one day I will be forced into the AWD world so to speak. I do like the Outback H6 in a automatic ...

 

But then LOL I will have a new thread of pros and cons to post .. " H6 vs. subarus 4cyl TURBO engine" which is more reliable and which one can take a real pounding without constant repair ... Joe

[Bucky92]

I have been kinda following this thread abit and am curious about how my 08 will do in the snow..I have always had FWD Subarus and with snows..never had trouble getting through....I bought my XT6 ( 5 spd FT4WD with diff lock) last year for winter travel....and...well...it never saw it cause it was broke down most of the time And now it is being restored so no more winter travel for it allowed.

So I will be curious at what symetrical AWD can do.

[daeron]

I have been kinda following this thread abit and am curious about how my 08 will do in the snow..I have always had FWD Subarus and with snows..never had trouble getting through....I bought my XT6 ( 5 spd FT4WD with diff lock) last year for winter travel....and...well...it never saw it cause it was broke down most of the time And now it is being restored so no more winter travel for it allowed.

So I will be curious at what symetrical AWD can do.

thats what happens when you buy an XT6 for your "winter car..." you wind up restoring it to the point where its too NICE for that, and you have to buy a NEW subaru because your old one just wont cut it for a "winter" car.... :-p:-p:-p

[mr_whirly]

Have you had the OBS on narrow dedicated snow tires?

 

It seems the GL's are more likely to seem more capable in snow because of a couple of things: factory clearance is high, low hanging plastic plow creating content is low, tires are naturally narrow with 13" wheels, and dedicated snow tires (+wheels) are very cheap to come by in said 13" size... and not to mention lower power feels like it equals more traction.

 

But my sport sedan with the correct tires rocked!

 

 

I haven't tried "dedicated" snow tires on the OBS-maybe I should give it a try.

 

Of course, I don't have dedicated snows on my old GL EITHER...and it seems to do fine in the snow.

[Urabus-84HBDR]

as i have both set ups. 88 sedan gl10 FTAWD with Diff lock, and 86 gl wagon with 5 speed d/r. and a 84 hatch with d/r and i have to believe that the d/r is better FOR deep snow and getting out of hairy spots. Though the FTAWD is great for everyday driving, dont have to worry about a thing, need more just hit the switch now its locked in. I think the FTAWD has overall better traction. I wouldnt trade my d/r for anything, the low is just awsome in snow... in fact ive tried getting stuck in the d/r and have only been succesful when the snow is very very wet and heavy, but can usaully get out with low. take it for what its worth.:-\

 

Does anyone have past driver experience with the dual range subaru trans and subaru's ALL WHEEL DRIVE SYSTEM ? What are the pros and cons of each while driving in snow and ice ???

 

I have never owned a ALL WHEEL DRIVE SUBIE...

 

So Dual Range or ALL WHEEL IN SNOW AND ICE, which is better for deep snow and getting unstuck, which provides better traction ?

[zyewdall]

AWD is a better full time solution. If more than 70% of your driving is on fairly well maintained roads, AWD. If more than 30% of it is on unplowed/ unimproved roads then 4WD/DR.

 

To boil it down, if you spend more than 1/4 of your driving in 4wd, then stick with 4WD. If less than three quarters is in 2WD then AWD will give you a more secure on road experience.

 

I'd agree with that. On icy, packed snow, or wet or just gravel roads... AWD is great (we have an 06 outback for the company car). On the deep snow, jeep trails, gluey mud, etc.... lo range and 4x4 is better (my old GL wagons). Don't underestimate tires though -- all wheel drive or 4 wheel drive is useless if none of the tires can get a grip... A fwd diesel rabbit with good studded snow tires is actually a very formidable car, believe it or not.

[Sushi]

A fwd diesel rabbit with good studded snow tires is actually a very formidable car, believe it or not.

 

I can believe it. I had an '82 Toyota Tercel fwd which was fantastic in the winter untill the rust caught up with her. I never thought I could respect a fwd car before.

[wesley willis]

my first sube was an 88 hatchback 2wd AT...it was great in the snow. now i have a loyale with snow tires and don't even need the 4wd. good to have, but around these parts we get snow maybe three times a year.

[idosubaru]

Don't underestimate tires though

yep, i'd take a FWD with quality snow tires any day over any 4WD vehicle with all seasons.

[CrankyAl]

I am new to the forum and have only posted one other post in the past. I have a 1990 Loyal and am doing a reseal on the engine. It is a 5speed manual with the pushbutton 4wdr system. I also have a d/r trany from a gl wagon. Is the d/r an easy swap into the Loyal or is it not a good swap? From what I have been reading the d/r is something to be desired. I do a lot on snow driving, sometimes rather deep snow. I work at an observatory in central Oregon. I have the tools and expertise to do a swap if it is possible.

[GeneralDisorder]

Is the d/r an easy swap into the Loyal or is it not a good swap?

 

Straight swap - easy as can be. Just need the D/R lever linkage, and the plastic bits for the interior. A D/R transmission from an 87+ that had fuel injection would be best as it would have the neutral switch. The computer will be looking for it, but it's not a big deal.

 

GD

[idosubaru]

CranklyAl: yep, drop in swap, bolts right up.

 

it looks like both of yours are non turbo vehicles/parts and EA82, if so then yes, it's a straight swap. in case the trans is from a turbo:

 

turbo's and non-turbo's have different spline counts and final drive ratios. so it's easiest to use a turbo transmission in a turbo vehicle or a non turbo trans in a non turbo vehicle.

 

in the off-beat chance you have the opposite going on, you'll just need front axles from whatever your transmission is (turbo or non) and you'll need to swap rear diffs that match the final drive of the transmission. i believe turbo transmissions have a 3.7 final drive and non turbo's have a 3.9 final drive.

[CrankyAl]

The trany came from a gl with a carb, So no neutral switch. I have all the linkage, the inside consol pieces,etc. A rather dumb question......with the d/r system do I still have the fwd option, or am I in 4wd hi all the time until I need to switch to lo, if needed? dumb question eh? both are ea82's and non turbo both manual trannies

[GeneralDisorder]

The trany came from a gl with a carb, So no neutral switch. I have all the linkage, the inside consol pieces,etc. A rather dumb question......with the d/r system do I still have the fwd option, or am I in 4wd hi all the time until I need to switch to lo, if needed? dumb question eh? both are ea82's and non turbo both manual trannies

 

Yes, FWD, 4WD Hi, and 4WD Lo.

 

Wire up your clutch switch (used for cruise control) to the old neutral switch harness. This will be enough to fool the ECU - as long as it sees an "in-gear" signal (switch closed, signal wire grounded) it will be satisfied. The clutch switch is close, it will just be "in-gear" when the clutch is released. It doesn't seem to make much difference to the SPFI computer anyway so it's good enough.

 

If you don't have cruise control, just find a car with it in the junk yard, and replace your clutch pedal stop bolt with the switch.

 

GD

[CrankyAl]

Thanks guys, I can do this. seems straight forward. GD, you seem to be from Portland, I am in Aloha about once a month. My folks live there. I am the astronomer at Pine Mnt. Observatory. Nice country over here, hope to meet ya some day. Thanks again.

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks guys, I can do this. seems straight forward. GD, you seem to be from Portland, I am in Aloha about once a month. My folks live there. I am the astronomer at Pine Mnt. Observatory. Nice country over here, hope to meet ya some day. Thanks again.

 

Indeed - give me a shout when you are in the area. You sound like a studius fellow and that's always welcome around my place. Probably fill your head with more info than you ever wanted about your '90....

 

GD

[daeron]

....like a studius fellow....

 

GD

 

 

Studious. :-p

 

Irony is a beautiful thing, aint it?

 

An Astronomer??? FTW!!!

 

Anyone else think this thread was a good enough discussion on this topic to maybe make the post a sticky, or possibly throw it in the USRM so we can point to it in the future when this subject comes up? It has covered pretty much all the bases, fairly well.....