Sound Off: How many miles on original HG?

[211]

2000 Legacy, A/T 186,000 and ready for another 100,000 when whacked by a Grand Cherokee. Never a hint of a GH problem, did have the Subaru gunk.

 

That's what I'm talkin' about! Well, minus the whacked by a Jeep part.

 

I'm worried that mine will go soon although everything's holding up pretty well so far (knock on some serious wood...).

According to the 60k sevice report (dealer invoice/receipt) they put the SoobSlime in. I'd be stoked if I could roll 120k on this baby!

[schlit]

No but its impossible to blame a bad part for after 120,000 miles. Many cars blow HG's over that age, and it is not blamed on design. If you use that criteria, then anything that fails over 100,000 miles is a bad design.

 

Also its still not 100% proven that it is a desighn issue, as opposed to a cleanliness issue, an assembly issue, or a bad run of head gaskets.

 

For instance, Dodge neon, which is running at 100% failure rate (at about 60K), is a bad design.

 

I am sorry but if it made it past 120,000 miles, its not a bad design.

 

nipper

 

 

Wow, if you really feel that way and want to compare Subarus to Dodges I will definitely never buy a Subaru again. A head gasket failure is such a key element that shouldnt fail, ever. Especially when good cars these days are lasting past 200,000 mi easy.

 

2002 Forester

External leak at 90,000mi.

 

Dealer put extra stop leak in to patch the problem....so I guess if it fails at 120,000 miles then I can attribute it to normal wear and tear :-\

[3Pin]

95 2.2 leak on one side at 135K sold to sister after fix

96 2.5 at 152K

96 2.5 at 158K

98 2.5 at 129K (motor puked previous owner) replaced with 2.2

 

I look for them with bad HG's and buy them cheap enough and fix them and drive em .........obviously not all at once.

[kevinsUBARU]

Dealer put extra stop leak in to patch the problem....so I guess if it fails at 120,000 miles then I can attribute it to normal wear and tear :-\

 

Don't worry, the probability of it leaking again before 120K is pretty high.

[Rooster2]

My 91 with the 2.2 blew a head gasket at 178K miles, so I know first hand that the 2.2 can and will blow a head gasket. Still with that many miles on the engine, the car owed me nothing.

 

My current rides are a 98 OBW wagon with the 2.5 and 108K miles. It was bought used, so don't know if the HG has ever been replaced.

 

My other ride is a 99 OBW wagon with the 2.5 and 158K miles. It too, was bought used, so don't know if the HG has ever been replaced. Is there some way to look at the heads to see if the HG has ever been replaced?

 

Someone posted a few months back that the HG failure rate of the phase 1, 2.5 motors is about 10 to 15% of total production, but I don't know how true that might be.

[GeneralDisorder]

My 91 with the 2.2 blew a head gasket at 178K miles, so I know first hand that the 2.2 can and will blow a head gasket. Still with that many miles on the engine, the car owed me nothing.

 

They can - as with any engine. But it's comparitively rare. Often it's related to some overheat in the vehicles past - mine blew a water pump and was overheated several times around 132k. So I wouldn't be terribly surprised if eventually I have to do the HG's. 8k on new OEM water pump and all front consumables. Perhaps at the next belt change (190k) I'll just do the HG's for good measure.....

 

Someone posted a few months back that the HG failure rate of the phase 1, 2.5 motors is about 10 to 15% of total production, but I don't know how true that might be.

 

Well - in and of itself that statement is worthless..... what mileage did they figure the 10% to 15% at? 100k? 120k? 200k? Percentages in this case mean little without that information.... eventually one would expect every engine out there to suffer either HG failure or bottom end failure. but HG's are far, far more common than the latter. The differential rates of expansion between cylinder heads and blocks makes HG's a wear item that WILL eventually fail. Most of the wear on them occurs durring initial warm-up so their lifespan is not so much tied to mileage as it is to number of cold-starts.

 

GD

[DiscoStu]

99 Legacy OBW 170,000 miles and no HG problem yet <crosses fingers>.

[DerFahrer]

91 Legacy, 180,780 miles, headgaskets A-Okay as is the rest of the cooling system. It has never overheated for any reason.

[idosubaru]

My 91 with the 2.2 blew a head gasket at 178K miles, so I know first hand that the 2.2 can and will blow a head gasket.

don't suggest we are saying something we are not - the point is not that an EJ22 can not blow a head gasket, that's absolutely absurd to suggest and doesn't make any sense. like GD said it is highly probable that engine was compromised at some point in it's 17 year history. i guarantee that some part of the cooling system is probably still original or was replaced when it busted, not just before. there are throttle body hoses, heater core hoses, rusty clamps, water pumps, thermostats, seals, gaskets, radiators, radiator caps, coolant temperature sensors, fans, relays (for the fans)...etc. it is probable that one of these items caused an overheat at some point in the history of the vehicle and eventually lead to the demise of the head gaskets.

 

EJ25's on the other hand blow head gaskets at 30k, 80k...any mileage and all the time, very common. that is not attributable to such maintenance items. that is the differnence. an EJ22 blowing at low mileage or low age with no contributing circumstance is very rare.

 

Is there some way to look at the heads to see if the HG has ever been replaced?

yes - look at the head gasket, tabs at the corners stick out between the head and engine block. i've seen three styles of head gaskets, the multi layer variety should be an indicator that it's original.

 

Someone posted a few months back that the HG failure rate of the phase 1, 2.5 motors is about 10 to 15% of total production,

nipper quotes that from some german, non-confirmed site. it's a guess, that is all. and a not very accurate in my oppinion (but i've only looked at hundreds of EJ25's to buy, so what do i know?

[subsince77]

Looks like mine is the granddaddy on this list so far. 97 OBW 2.5 Man. Trans. 196000 with no HG problems - not gonna have any!

[soobyfan]

'96 OBW 2.2L 5sp 180,000 miles, original head gaskets, second owner. No major engine work.

[subimatt]

40,000km's i think- from previous owners replacement, in an ea82t. just blown now

[idosubaru]

97 OBW 2.5 Man. Trans. 196000 with no HG problems

based on what you've said about buying this car in the past, you bought it used. if so, do you know whether or not they were replaced before you bought it?

 

good mileage, consider yourself lucky!

[TheYeti]

178,000 before the HG blew on Don's original motor.

[davebugs]

Bought a 97 OBW 5 speed at auction that appears to need HG at 183k. No idea of prior history.

[wtdash]

1997 OBW

Auto

Replaced HG @ 130K

 

 

1990 Legacy

Auto

145K - Original HG

[hohieu]

The differential rates of expansion between cylinder heads and blocks makes HG's a wear item that WILL eventually fail. Most of the wear on them occurs durring initial warm-up so their lifespan is not so much tied to mileage as it is to number of cold-starts.

GD

 

Good point, but I would consider headgasket replacement routine maintenace only in diesel powered engines, which run at highter compression and more intense combustion cycles.

 

My family has run several gasoline powered cars past 200K miles over a period of, say, 15 years without any headgasket issues. With proper maintenance, particularly of the cooling system, I would expect this in any normally aspirated gas engine. However, as grossgary stated, other issues with the cooling system can cause a headgasket to fail on any engine, even a brand new SOHC EJ 22.

 

99 Forester 2.5 SOHC, 124K miles and counting....

[crazyhorse001]

The differential rates of expansion between cylinder heads and blocks makes HG's a wear item that WILL eventually fail. Most of the wear on them occurs durring initial warm-up so their lifespan is not so much tied to mileage as it is to number of cold-starts.

 

GD

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. However, that statement is like saying that Connecting Rods are a wear item because they wear against the crank at startup. This is a constant with every engine, regardless of design.

My pet theory, and it is just that, is that the "open deck" design with it's lack of reinforcing webbing, allows the cylinders to move & distort with heat. Add to this the sleeve design that has a differential heat expansion, and this makes the aluminum parent material move even more. IMHO the only "true" fix for this is to "O" ring the block & heads to hold the cylinders firmly in place.

 

Just my opinions for what they're worth.

[subsince77]

based on what you've said about buying this car in the past, you bought it used. if so, do you know whether or not they were replaced before you bought it?

 

good mileage, consider yourself lucky!

 

I do, and yes I bought it used from someone I know, and he provided me with a huge stack of receipts for everything they had ever done to it. I think the biggest thing they did was an alternator. I was impressed! I wish they had done an HG, but no. I'm going for the record! It's been a great car. Anything it does at this point won't change that.

[GeneralDisorder]

Good point, but I would consider headgasket replacement routine maintenace only in diesel powered engines....

 

You're just scared of the labor :-p. It's not that hard really. Takes an afternoon to do both sides.

 

My family has run several gasoline powered cars past 200K miles over a period of, say, 15 years without any headgasket issues. With proper maintenance, particularly of the cooling system, I would expect this in any normally aspirated gas engine.

 

Well - then you don't have much experience with gasoline engines. As I said the EJ Subaru gaskets *should* be able to last a LONG time - often it's a tie between the HG's and the bottom end on the EJ22's. But you can't say that about *all* gasoline engines. Many, many engines are still using cast iron blocks and aluminium heads - these are not at all the same animal just because they are "gasloline, naturally aspirated".

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. However, that statement is like saying that Connecting Rods are a wear item because they wear against the crank at startup.

 

No - it's not at all like saying that, and in any case, they don't. The crank bears against the con. rod BEARINGS, which ARE a wear item. Lets also not forget that even at startup there should be a residual oil film present, and ideally there shouldn't be any metal-to-metal contact, or very little. That's why oil composition (the additive package) has been largely responsible for the increases in potential mileage that can be seen over the last 3 or 4 decades in automotive engines.

 

Head gaskets do not have this luxury - they bear directly on the metal with no lubrication, and massive torque bearing down on them. It's impressive that they often last as long as they do considering the conditions they exist in.

 

GD

[PeterD]

the original owner of my parents 98 outback went ~180k miles before my dad bought it and put new hg on it... now it has 205k ish :cool:

 

my 91 legacy has ~207k miles and going strong

[elmwood22]

'95 Legacy wagon 212k on original HGs-sold

'99 OBW, 107k on original HG

Another '95 legacy wagon w 130k on Original HG

[x_25]

1999 OBW, HG replaced at 105,000mi (failed before that but never overheated, it just kept pushing coolant out which we would put back in. Did you know there is a spot where a turkey baster fits nicely right near the overflow tank?) Then had a cam shaft seize at 118,000mi. Got a new engine from CCR and now at ~132,500 it is running strong. (actual millage is unknown due to the speedometer/odometer only working interemitantly starting at 131,000mi)

[subyfreak]

92 Legacy 2.2 NA 215,000 Hard miles 91 Legacy 2.2 Turbo 205,000 miles. Both good. Had a 91 Legacy 2.2 NA parts car with 190,000 miles internal HG leak possibly caused by lack of proper care (coolant leak at waterpump).

[hohieu]

Would be great to hear from more folks with the EJ25 SOHC engines (99+ Forester & Imprezas and 2000+ Legacies and Outbacks)

 

You're just scared of the labor :-p. It's not that hard really. Takes an afternoon to do both sides.

I'm acutally hoping that the headgaskets hold out until the clutch needs replacement. Any advice as to whether I should preemptively do the head gaskets when the engine is already out for clutch replacement?

 

But yes, being in the city, without a garage or even a driveway, I'm not looking forward to the job -- especially dealing with the exhaust header nuts and studs.

 

 

Well - then you don't have much experience with gasoline engines. As I said the EJ Subaru gaskets *should* be able to last a LONG time - often it's a tie between the HG's and the bottom end on the EJ22's. But you can't say that about *all* gasoline engines. Many, many engines are still using cast iron blocks and aluminium heads - these are not at all the same animal just because they are "gasloline, naturally aspirated".

GD

True enough, but I already agreed with you on this point . For reasons you mentioned, I wouldn't buy a car with mismatched metals. All the cars we've owned had aluminum blocks and heads, with the exception of a 91 Cherokee, which has both cast iron block and head. These early Cherokees with the basic locking transfer case and AW4 trans. are bulletproof. It's a totally different animal than our Forester, but I can't say enough good things about the Jeep -- just a very good, simple design.