Glowing red.

[Phizinza]

Sorry if you feel I was having a go at you. Your posts weren't the ones I was aiming at up until you started getting defensive. I understand that this was a misunderstood moment. Its just those people out there that do what Daeron said above that I think need to understand what they are doing before going ahead.

[Gloyale]

 

Here in the 'States you CANNOT buy them from the wreckers, it's illegal for them to sell used cats. New cats are EXPENSIVE, be they aftermarket, or OEM. An OEM cat for my '74 Pinto is non-existant anyways.

 

 

Generic aftermarket can be found for mot vehcihles for less than $100 dollars. C'mon that's expsenive??? I've seen the rear cat for our EA82s for $65. Even the whole Y-pipes can be had, cat and all for about $150-200, still not incredibly expensive. Think about it you'd spend that for one payment on a new vehicle. so it seems resonable for a one time(probably) expense for mantainence

[crazyhorse001]

Generic aftermarket can be found for mot vehcihles for less than $100 dollars. C'mon that's expsenive??? I've seen the rear cat for our EA82s for $65. Even the whole Y-pipes can be had, cat and all for about $150-200, still not incredibly expensive. Think about it you'd spend that for one payment on a new vehicle. so it seems resonable for a one time(probably) expense for mantainence

 

Yes, $100 is expensive, on a $500 car. Spending 1/5 the cost of a car on a part, that by all admissions isn't going to improve the way it runs, is expensive. Not when that same $100 is what the electricity bill is. Keep in mind, that my Pinto is NOT my daily driver. It usually sees no more use than some trail rigs here. It's my "backup car". Am I getting this because my car isn't a Subie? At 2.3l with SPFI, and mass air, I'm betting it's as clean, or cleaner than an EA81 with a Weber.

 

Phizinza,

No offense taken, your posts were all very civilized, and well worded. You have my respect for not taking aim with a G'day

[Nug]

Removing cats is for people who can't keep their cars in tune.

 

I used to think, "It's robbing horsepower. It's useless to me!" Then I learned that if you keep your car in proper operating condition, you never have a problem.

[testy]

Thanks for the info. My car was running way rich and my plugs were toast.

 

A new coil, wires, plugs, cap and its good to go.

 

I will need to replace my toasted exhaust, probably will go my cheapest option, and since I dont have emissions tests, it probably wont include any cats.

 

All the police up here can do is hand out a V.I. And that takes about 30 days to get the appointment. If you can put a cat on in 30 days your only out the cost of the inspection.

 

Id never really take a cat out for preformance... it might be worth it if the motor had more than 110 horsepower. But for me, its about the sound.

 

Thanks guys.

[Phizinza]

Good to hear testy.

Sorry for going offtopic. But I felt you got the right answers before I first replied. So Knowing you had what you needed to know, I thought I would try and help with the misunderstood reason for a catalytic converter.

[ShawnW]

Sorry but youre wrong on the $150 Y-pipe being expensive on the $500 car.

 

If the $500 car is worth driving then its worth $150 to make it run right. A subaru that isnt running right produces a ton of pollutants and doesnt save you any money over driving a SUV, V8 car, etc.

 

Right in this case is one of those very rare times....

 

A time when something will improve MILEAGE AND POWER. These things are very rarely hand in hand but this is one of them.

 

People that remove cats tempt me to turn them in. Its absolutely rediculous to remove one unless its to replace it. An efficient and properly maintained car with a cat on it runs just as good as one without. Grow up and realize that you have to breathe all that crap coming out of the tailpipe of your car and everybody elses. Anything you can do to help make it easier to breathe should be done. Its just as dumb as driving around with all of your tires 20 PSI too low. (which I see a lot of)

[4WDFrenzy]

Heck, if lots of people think that having cats is a waste(of maybe an extra 5 peak hp), then they will certainly think that I flipped my lid since my car has one Catco cat and is going to be getting a second one as soon as I can get back Stateside. (Gee, 2 cats, what is this guy thinking, right?) I guess I'm just an old fashioned TREE HUGGER!...LOL But seriously, I remember reading an article in either Sport Compact Car or Turbo magazine about catalytic converters and their effect on horsepower. IIRC, your engine has to be making something in the ballpark of 500+ hp for deleting the cat to actually make a difference. So on my cars, if I actually need more flow, they still get a cat, just a high-flow cat.

[Gloyale]

 

Id never really take a cat out for preformance... it might be worth it if the motor had more than 110 horsepower. But for me, its about the sound.

 

That's an even lamer reason to pollute than more power. Besides the right ize pipe and a good muffler will give you great sound with the cat. Curious as to where you are getting the exhaust done? They will be breaking the law with you if they remove your're cat and don't install a new one.

[The Beast I Drive]

I don't see why some of yall think its such a big deal to run without a cat. Like it has been said, it is a personal choice, and IF the law catches on, oh well, we'll pay the price. I personally don't run cats because I try to make things as simple as possible on my cars, so that there will be less that can fail. That simpler is better mentality applies to pretty much everything I do. The more complex something is, the more likely it is to fail. Also, as a side note, a lot of modern high performance cars that do run cats, like Saleen Mustangs, don't meet or even come close to emissions standards anyways.

[Subaru_dude]

I don't see why some of yall think its such a big deal to run without a cat.

 

They've already stated why it's a big deal to run without a cat. Hydrocarbons kill brain cells BTW.

 

 

Also, as a side note, a lot of modern high performance cars that do run cats, like Saleen Mustangs, don't meet or even come close to emissions standards anyways.

 

So are you saying that a Subaru with a cat still won't pass emissions?

[mudduck]

Also, as a side note, a lot of modern high performance cars that do run cats, like Saleen Mustangs, don't meet or even come close to emissions standards anyways.

 

Sure they do. Why would a modern high performance car be exempt from an emissions test in any state that does emissions testing? If my old subaru is required to pass a smog test, then why wouldn't that $35,000 mustang be exempt from a smog test?

[The Beast I Drive]

They've already stated why it's a big deal to run without a cat. Hydrocarbons kill brain cells BTW.

 

 

 

 

So are you saying that a Subaru with a cat still won't pass emissions?

 

It's a definite possibility, especially with a 20 year old cat or a high flow cat. To make it be free-er flowing, the honeycomb material has to be bigger, so more gasses make it out to the atmosphere. I talked to the guys at Flowmaster about those, and they said there really isn't any improvement with their cats over stock ones anyways.

 

Oh, and I LOVE hydrocarbons btw

[The Beast I Drive]

Sure they do. Why would a modern high performance car be exempt from an emissions test in any state that does emissions testing? If my old subaru is required to pass a smog test, then why wouldn't that $35,000 mustang be exempt from a smog test?

 

I read an article in one of the car mags that was about aftermarket tuners like Saleen and like 6 other companies that mod Vipers, Mustangs, Corvettes, and the like, and not a single one of these STREET LEGAL performance cars that are driven off the lot every day passed a smog test.

[mudduck]

I don't understand how not having the cat would make things simpler? I have a cat under the car, and the exhaust seems pretty straight forward. I just don't see how replacing the cat with a pipe makes things simpler.

[The Beast I Drive]

I didn't just lose the cat, there is no emissions at all on my car. And nothing is simpler than 4 ft of pipe and a glasspack off each head.

[mudduck]

I read an article in one of the car mags that was about aftermarket tuners like Saleen and like 6 other companies that mod Vipers, Mustangs, Corvettes, and the like, and not a single one of these STREET LEGAL performance cars that are driven off the lot every day passed a smog test.

 

I just don't see those particular cars being exempt from smog testing. There is no reson for them to be exempt.

[mudduck]

I didn't just lose the cat, there is no emissions at all on my car. And nothing is simpler than 4 ft of pipe and a glasspack off each head.

 

I would hope that you at least got the exhaust routed out from under the car with that setup. Thats a good way to gas yourself in traffic if its dumping right under, or in front of your feet.

[The Beast I Drive]

I just don't see those particular cars being exempt from smog testing. There is no reson for them to be exempt.

 

they don't get tested cuz they aren't major manufacturers like Ford or Honda, they are independents, and in theory their exhausts pass tests, but real world testing shows they don't. These guys are in the game for performance, not smog control, so I just don't think they really care

[The Beast I Drive]

I would hope that you at least got the exhaust routed out from under the car with that setup. Thats a good way to gas yourself in traffic if its dumping right under, or in front of your feet.

 

it dumps out to the side, right under the rear doors

[daeron]

they don't get tested cuz they aren't major manufacturers like Ford or Honda, they are independents, and in theory their exhausts pass tests, but real world testing shows they don't. These guys are in the game for performance, not smog control, so I just don't think they really care

Then, guess what??

 

 

They are NOT street legal!!! They MAY pass through technical loopholes and not get caught, and make it through the tag office, but guess what??? This cornucopian attitude is EXACTLY what causes laws to get clamped down tighter and tighter, and causes the individual to lose more and more freedom, every day. (overtly political sentiments deleted before posting, PM me if you really wanna hear em)

 

Everything is NOT "going to be allright" just because you can justify dumping the cat on your car..... ALL that means is that YOU can justify it! I cannot defend my decision to continue to run with a gutted cat, I can only justify something that I know is wrong.

 

Oh, and high flow cats could also simply utilize a larger surface area of the same honeycomb material as well.

 

As rabid as people have become towards cigarette smokers in this country, I cannot believe the lax attitude towards automotive pollution. It's just like seeing TV tell us what is wrong with our educational system...

[The Beast I Drive]

Then, guess what??

 

 

They are NOT street legal!!! They MAY pass through technical loopholes and not get caught, and make it through the tag office, but guess what??? This cornucopian attitude is EXACTLY what causes laws to get clamped down tighter and tighter, and causes the individual to lose more and more freedom, every day. (overtly political sentiments deleted before posting, PM me if you really wanna hear em)

 

Everything is NOT "going to be allright" just because you can justify dumping the cat on your car..... ALL that means is that YOU can justify it! I cannot defend my decision to continue to run with a gutted cat, I can only justify something that I know is wrong.

 

Oh, and high flow cats could also simply utilize a larger surface area of the same honeycomb material as well.

 

As rabid as people have become towards cigarette smokers in this country, I cannot believe the lax attitude towards automotive pollution. It's just like seeing TV tell us what is wrong with our educational system...

 

I have no problem with smokers. Obviously these cars are allowed on the streets, I sure haven't heard of any type of a recall for insufficient smog control equipment. I know my car is illegal, but I got pulled over one day, and the stater took 15 minutes to find anything wrong with my car, and he only cited me for an improper lift(which was complete bull****, I got that cleared up in court) and not having mudflaps. Ha.

[GeneralDisorder]

I won't argue that a converter isn't beneficial. Clearly they are.

 

But I would like to say that there is a lot of hype and paranoia about "the environment". Very little of it is hard science, nor are there many voices of reason out there on it.

 

Here's the deal: We aren't going to "destroy" the planet. We may cut into our own out-of-control breeding habits, but that is perfectly natural. We WILL sooner or later cause a few disasters of biblical proportions that will (hopefully) wipe out a few billion (mostly through famine and disease). But this is an entirely natural course of events - as seen thoughout history on smaller scales.

 

To which I say: Why NOT global warming? I have my sceptical doubts about it's validity (the boy who cried "global cooling" a few decades ago might have something to do with that huh?), but really if it's not global warming it will be something else. Besides, global warming has some pretty nice benefits besides all the hype about the famine, drought, and weather. Increased growing seasons for one! Not to mention all the new ocean side property in Arizona!

 

No - I don't delight in the pain and suffering of others. But I also don't beleive that discounting all of recorded history is wise. And I seriously doubt that anything a few individuals do, or however loudly they may shout that the sky is falling, will stop the inevitable march forward by madison avenue and the rest of our society that is only concened with bread and circuses.

 

Anyway, I suppose it's partially a philisophical issue. But I can't see the point in spending tons of effort trying to avoid something that 10,000 years of human history says is basically inevitable. If it's global warming that I get, then I'll greet it with a Mai Tai and a lawn chair!

 

GD

[The Beast I Drive]

I won't argue that a converter isn't beneficial. Clearly they are.

 

But I would like to say that there is a lot of hype and paranoia about "the environment". Very little of it is hard science, nor are there many voices of reason out there on it.

 

Here's the deal: We aren't going to "destroy" the planet. We may cut into our own out-of-control breeding habits, but that is perfectly natural. We WILL sooner or later cause a few disasters of biblical proportions that will (hopefully) wipe out a few billion (mostly through famine and disease). But this is an entirely natural course of events - as seen thoughout history on smaller scales.

 

To which I say: Why NOT global warming? I have my sceptical doubts about it's validity (the boy who cried "global cooling" a few decades ago might have something to do with that huh?), but really if it's not global warming it will be something else. Besides, global warming has some pretty nice benefits besides all the hype about the famine, drought, and weather. Increased growing seasons for one! Not to mention all the new ocean side property in Arizona!

 

No - I don't delight in the pain and suffering of others. But I also don't beleive that discounting all of recorded history is wise. And I seriously doubt that anything a few individuals do, or however loudly they may shout that the sky is falling, will stop the inevitable march forward by madison avenue and the rest of our society that is only concened with bread and circuses.

 

Anyway, I suppose it's partially a philisophical issue. But I can't see the point in spending tons of effort trying to avoid something that 10,000 years of human history says is basically inevitable. If it's global warming that I get, then I'll greet it with a Mai Tai and a lawn chair!

 

GD

 

I, for one, like the way you think.

[NV Zeno]

A big +1.