Sometimes ABS sucks

[LosDiosDeVerde86]

I'm not going to read through 5 pages of this, but there's a ground on the passenger side of the engine. if you disconnect it, the ABS shuts off.

 

you could hook up a switch to that if you want, i suppose.

[CNY_Dave]

Going down steep hill (35 degrees or so), Heavy slush, First gear as at the bottom of the hill is an intersection/stop sign.

 

Never topped 5 mph, and I still managed to just slide right by the stop sign and the state trooper, no ticket though, he knew I was trying.

 

Would simply kicking it into neutral have worked better and disable ABS? I'd feel more confident know I can simply kick the shifter forward and have full lock up when needed than disabled the ABS permanently by pulling the fuse.

 

(I did that last winter, still better than having it, but its the other side of the coin.)

 

 

It's reported putting it in neutral helps, but it does not disable the ABS.

 

Next time it snows, practice

- using the Ebrake, or

- turning the key off, or

- braking to below the threshold, releasing the brakes, and then stomp on 'em.

 

 

Dave

[LosDiosDeVerde86]

It's reported putting it in neutral helps, but it does not disable the ABS.

 

Next time it snows, practice

- using the Ebrake, or

- turning the key off, or

- braking to below the threshold, releasing the brakes, and then stomp on 'em.

 

 

Dave

 

generally, e-brake on an AWD car is a bad idea, unless the handbrake is set to disable the center-differential like on the STI's.

 

I would only do that in a situation where it's absolutely necissary in an emergency situation.

[CNY_Dave]

generally, e-brake on an AWD car is a bad idea, unless the handbrake is set to disable the center-differential like on the STI's.

 

I would only do that in a situation where it's absolutely necissary in an emergency situation.

 

 

In the snow, it'd be great if the ebrake helped brake the front, but that's not the case (tried).

 

Does the ebrake disable the clutchpack on the outbacks? Good question, anyone know?

 

At low speeds, with low traction all around, with the duty-c solenoid functioning as designed, I'd bet you could yank the ebrake quite a bit without damaging the front-rear clutchpack, as long as you were not on the gas.

 

Do it on gravel, or dry pavement, at speed, likely a different story.

 

Anyway, I'd call sliding through a stop-sign an emergency!

 

Dave

[LosDiosDeVerde86]

In the snow, it'd be great if the ebrake helped brake the front, but that's not the case (tried).

 

Does the ebrake disable the clutchpack on the outbacks? Good question, anyone know?

 

At low speeds, with low traction all around, with the duty-c solenoid functioning as designed, I'd bet you could yank the ebrake quite a bit without damaging the front-rear clutchpack, as long as you were not on the gas.

 

Do it on gravel, or dry pavement, at speed, likely a different story.

 

Anyway, I'd call sliding through a stop-sign an emergency!

 

Dave

 

as far as i know, the only subaru to disable the dutyc with the ebrake is the STI (rally purposes....you don't want to be ebraking around a hairpin turn and have the clutch pack *************** itself.)

[CNY_Dave]

as far as i know, the only subaru to disable the dutyc with the ebrake is the STI (rally purposes....you don't want to be ebraking around a hairpin turn and have the clutch pack *************** itself.)

 

Would be a simple mod, though

 

Very simple!

 

 

Dave

[LosDiosDeVerde86]

Would be a simple mod, though

 

Very simple!

 

 

Dave

 

yeah, with my 96 i was thinking of a way to hoop up a switch to the FWD fuse under the hood that's mounted next to the hand brake that's tripped by a flipper on the ebrake handle..

 

that's the easiest way i can think of...but i'm no technician or electrician.

[CNY_Dave]

yeah, with my 96 i was thinking of a way to hoop up a switch to the FWD fuse under the hood that's mounted next to the hand brake that's tripped by a flipper on the ebrake handle..

 

that's the easiest way i can think of...but i'm no technician or electrician.

 

There's a small switch connected to the ebrake lever in almost any car used to turn a 'brake' light on in the dash- use that switch to drive a relay that puts 12V to the AWD fuse.

 

That switch prob. only gets power when the key is on, so that part of the job is already done.

 

Anytime the ebrake is up and the car is running, the duty-c releases, all set for rally turns!

 

 

Dave

[nipper]

I just want to clarify, that the fuse sends a signal to the TCU to fully power the Duty C to disconnect the RWD. To get on demand 50/50 split you have to cut off the signal to the solenoid from the TCU.

 

Now what would be a good trick, is to use this idea to power a disconnect for the ABS

 

That i like.

 

 

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

this limited amount of ebrake usage on steep ascents in slippery surfaces will not cause any adverse affects to the rear transfer clutches. you're already slipping and sliding most likely anyway, otherwise you wouldn't need the ebrake "technique". it is fun as a mental exercise but in terms of necessary i think this is following the Duty C thread path, though this seems far simpler to actually accomplish should one want to.

[LosDiosDeVerde86]

I just want to clarify, that the fuse sends a signal to the TCU to fully power the Duty C to disconnect the RWD. To get on demand 50/50 split you have to cut off the signal to the solenoid from the TCU.

 

Now what would be a good trick, is to use this idea to power a disconnect for the ABS

 

That i like.

 

 

 

nipper

 

i already told you how!

 

there's a ground on the passenger side under the hood connected to the body frame. it's the ground for the ABS (i found that out once by mistake). hook up a switch to it and you're golden.

[Gloyale]

There's a small switch connected to the ebrake lever in almost any car used to turn a 'brake' light on in the dash- use that switch to drive a relay that puts 12V to the AWD fuse.

 

 

Problem is that the FWD fuse isn't powered. Check it with a meter.

 

What I mean is that when you put a fuse into the FWD holder, it doesn't "power" anything. One side of that fuse holder is connected straight to ground, the other side to a signal wire on the TCU. When you put a fuse in it completes the path to ground for that signal wire. Only a Millivolt signal is used. When grounded, it tells the TCU to send FWD(95% duty cycle) signal to the C solenoid, through a seperate wire.

 

So you see, running 12v to that circuit is a bad idea, and could damage the ECU.

 

What you would need to do is use the E-brake handle switch to ground the FWD holder. IIRC, most "brake" lights on the dah are already poowered, and get turned on by grounding through witch on the handle. If this is the cae, you could easily make this mod.

 

If not(12v at switch), then you would need to use a different switch, or use a relay that ground the FWD holder when 12v from handle is present.

[BruceyWV]

Eh, back to pulling the fuse for winter. I at least know I can stop (even if its sideways) without ABS.

[JohnKos]

install a on off sitch at the ABS fuse (dont foregt you still need that fuse in line).

 

nipper

 

Not to bring a dead thread back to life but... if i were to add a switch to turn the abs on and off, what gauge wire would i need to use? Say i put some blade connectors in the fuse slots, run the wire thru an in-line fuse to a switch. Since its a 20 amp fuse, how heavy a gauge wire is needed?

[nipper]

Well since we bought this back to life, I found just putting the car in neutral when trying to stop on a snow/ice/slush surface makes a dramatic improvement in break performance.

 

 

nipper

[johnceggleston]

Well since we bought this back to life, I found just putting the car in neutral when trying to stop on a snow/ice/slush surface makes a dramatic improvement in break performance.

 

 

nipper

any idea why??

[Manarius]

any idea why??

No more engine resistance? The transmission, when braking, engages 3rd gear in order to lessen the stress on the brakes (at least, with Auto cars).

 

Maybe this allows the ABS to actually work better since the engine brake isn't involved.

[nipper]

Your close. Remember these computers are dumb, and in lesser cars (read not a MB or BMW) not all the computers talk to each other. The ABS is fighting the mass of the car moving forward (sliding), and the driveline of an automatic giving constant power to the wheels, plus the loss of traction. The abs computer is trying to get the wheels to stop, but the car keeps sliding, and the wheels keep spinning. Now take out the wheels spinning (input from the driveline) and the ABS does a decent job of stopping the car. You still need to brake earlier and plan stops better, but at least it doesnt seem like you are never going to stop. This effect is especially obvious on hills and as the car achieves low speed. I dont think modern ABS systems have this issue (though i could be worng since I always buy 8 year old cars)

 

nipper

[Virrdog]

I'd believe it. I have an automatic family car ('95 Camry) and I put it in neutral at stop lights and such for the fuel savings and reduced vibrations. When you hit neutral sometimes the car starts to nose dive because most of the braking pressure was being used up in stopping the forward push of the transmission being in drive. Once that pressure from the torque converter is relieved the car stops much faster, this is most observable at slow speeds.

 

I hate automatics...

[springer-]

In my 98 OBW 5MT, I donwshift a couple of gears to assist with downhill stops on snow and ice. I have a steep hill here in Maine and it is nearly impossible to stop on with the ABS. I usually hit 1st or 2nd and let off the clutch. It pretty much brings the wheel to a complete stop until the car is slowed way down. Then I apply the brakes while it is in gear to slow down. This prevents the wheels from stoping in the snow and allows the brakes to function well. Of course that is with a Manual tranny.

[bheinen74]

Audi make a car that has a switch to turn ABS on and off

In the Audi manual it tells the owner of car to turn ABS off in snow and ice.

 

ABS sucks

pull the fuse. Pull the fuse on 05+ Outback under hood fuse and you get ABS light and brake light, but at least can stop.

 

 

If yu pull the fuse under dash, you get lots of CEL and error codes. not good

[Qman]

Removing the fuse is not considered a good idea. Proper driving techniques are the answer to this problem. Nipper has touched on the best way to handle this. Especially in an automatic equipped vehicle.

 

By shifting into neutral you remove the force that causes the slides when braking. Do this only when coming to a stop. This will allow for engine and pedal braking. The trans does not know the road conditions. It's job is to drive or push the car. When braking on slippery surfaces the wheels with the least resistance will stop. Usually the fronts because rotors hold much better with less force. Add AWD now it is pushing all 4 wheels. ABS is designed to pulse the brakes and avoid locking to allow for controlled braking.

 

I find it hard to believe that all you foul weather drivers have not figured this out or been taught in while learning to drive. It was one of the first things I learned as a kid learning to drive.

 

ABS in a manual trans car is as easy as pushing in the clutch. It isn't the system it is the operator not knowing how to handle the system. Sorry, just my opinion. But, feel free to search out foul weather driving tips.

 

Remember, disabling a safety system will revoke insurance coverage. Could move the blame for an accident to you, your fault or not due to tampering. Taking your own life into your own hands is one thing. But doing it on a public throughfare is another thing all together.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Qman

[CNY_Dave]

Neutral seems to help with some cars, maybe the idle on my H6 is a bit lower- neutral doesn't help at all.

 

Dave

[JohnKos]

It isn't the system it is the operator not knowing how to handle the system.

 

Knowing how the system works in my car, this operator has a switch to kill the ABS. I'd expect the car that sponsered the US Ski team to atleast be able to stop in the snow. My Fiat X19 stopped better in the snow than my 97 Legacy when the abs kicks in.

[Qman]

Knowing how the system works in my car, this operator has a switch to kill the ABS. I'd expect the car that sponsered the US Ski team to atleast be able to stop in the snow. My Fiat X19 stopped better in the snow than my 97 Legacy when the abs kicks in.

 

I don't know what to tell ya. I drive the OB in snow, ice, dirt, gravel, etc... Never had a problem stopping. So does my wife without issue. Knowing how the system works does not mean you know how to work the system.