Brakes Replacement 90 Legacy

[kimokalihi]

I just had some snow tires put on my 90 Subaru Legacy AWD 4EAT wagon at les schwab. They told me my front brakes are at about 30%. I know that they're pretty bad right now because they don't work too well.

 

My question is, should I get this done at the dealership and pay them to do it? Or should I buy online or at an auto parts place and do it myself? I'm fine with doing it myself, just wondering if I'll save enough doing it myself for it to be worth it.

 

What are some good brake rotors?

 

Tirerack has brembo replacement rotors. $36 each for the front, $41 each for the rears.

 

But what does this mean?

 

Front Fitment

Note: (Front) Plain vented rotor. Excludes 4WD Turbo models.

 

Vented? Slotted? Shows a picture of a regular rotor though.

 

I thought I read on here somewhere not to put aftermarket slotted or drilled brakes on legacies for some reason. That was a long time ago so I can't remember who said it or why.

[Virrdog]

You will save a TON over having a dealership do it.

 

Vented rotors is what you want. That is not slotted or cross-drilled, so no worries.

[Rooster2]

Agree, you will save a ton of money doing the job yourself. I can never figure out why shops charge so much for a brake job. It is not that difficult, or time consuming.

 

Are you sure that you need new rotors. Unless the rotors are warped, worn thin, or heavily rusted inside the "venting," I would use the old ones. However, the ones quoted by the parts store should work on your car.

 

What is nice on a Subie on the fronts, is that just one bolt needs to be removed on the caliper. Then, with gentle tapping with a hammer, the caliper hinges upward on a pin to slide off the rotor. Makes changing brake pad nice and easy. Suggest using a "C" clamp to push back the caliper piston. This is also a good time to bleed out the brakes to get rid of old brake fluid.

[kimokalihi]

I've had these brakes off several times since I had to replace all the wheel bearings myself. Actually just replaced the whole hub assemblies from the junkyard. Don't have access to a press so that was much easier and only cost about 20 bucks per hub assembly at the junkyard.

 

The brakes are super easy to take apart! I like that a lot.

 

The bleeding part is where I would need help. I've never done this before. The brake pedal is a bit spongy so I think they need bleeding anyways. Some people say you have to push one time all the way down on the pedal and some people say pump it a few times. Some say not to pump it because that will just create air bubbles in the lines and cause the spongy effect on your pedal...

 

So I've never done it before in fear of doing it wrong and making it worse.

 

The car currently has 293,000 miles on it I think. Quite a bit. It's not running the original engine and I replaced the transmission with a 94 tranny with 140,000 miles on it about 20,000 miles ago.

 

So the brake rotors are probably pretty worn. I'm assuming. I could get them lathed I suppose but if they're stock, they're probably pretty bad and I might as well just replace them all.

 

I'm trying to get this car ready for the mountains.

[kimokalihi]

I guess the vented just means that it's got those holes all around the edge between the two faces?

[porcupine73]

Right, most front rotors these days are at least vented. The brembo blank rotors there are a good value.

 

The hardest part I have had in soob brake jobs is getting the caliper bracket to bearing housing bolts out, especially if you live in a rust/salt belt area and/or if they haevn't been removed lately or were overtightened or some combination thereof.

 

Other than that it is a pretty straightforward job; a Haynes manual is adequate for this. Just their brake bleed order for soobs is wrong.

[jamal]

vacuum bleeding makes the job go much easier and can be more effective. A mityvac is $35, which nothing compared to what you'll save doing it yourself.

 

All you do is pump up the handle to build vacuum, crack the bleed screw, and start pumping.

 

 

For a cost comparison, if you went to a dealership you would be looking at the following prices:

 

$180 for front rotors

$180 for rear rotors

$80 for front pads

$80 for rear pads

$200 for labor

Total: $720

 

That total is dependant they only charge you MSRP for parts and that much labor.

 

Then they would probably try to get you to buy all new calipers because "yours, like, don't work right anymore 'cause they're old."

 

Rebuild kits are like $20 a caliper and re-man calipers at parts stores are cheap.

 

Doing it yourself you're spending, at most:

 

$160 for rotors

$100 for pads

$35 for a mityvac

$25 for fluid, cleaner, rags, grease

Total: $420

[porcupine73]

Plus it is a great excuse to pick up some tools (i.e. mityvac ) Sometimes on the rears (on the newer multilink rears anyway; not sure about the earlier ones) the lower caliper bracket to bearing housing bolt can benefit from like a 60 deg. offset wrench as there is no way to get a normal wrench on it or a socket (flex socket can get at it but seems awkward to use there).

[Rooster2]

I've had these brakes off several times since I had to replace all the wheel bearings myself. Actually just replaced the whole hub assemblies from the junkyard. Don't have access to a press so that was much easier and only cost about 20 bucks per hub assembly at the junkyard.

 

The brakes are super easy to take apart! I like that a lot.

 

The bleeding part is where I would need help. I've never done this before. The brake pedal is a bit spongy so I think they need bleeding anyways. Some people say you have to push one time all the way down on the pedal and some people say pump it a few times. Some say not to pump it because that will just create air bubbles in the lines and cause the spongy effect on your pedal...

 

So I've never done it before in fear of doing it wrong and making it worse.

 

The car currently has 293,000 miles on it I think. Quite a bit. It's not running the original engine and I replaced the transmission with a 94 tranny with 140,000 miles on it about 20,000 miles ago.

 

So the brake rotors are probably pretty worn. I'm assuming. I could get them lathed I suppose but if they're stock, they're probably pretty bad and I might as well just replace them all.

 

I'm trying to get this car ready for the mountains.

 

 

 

 

 

You must really love that Subie to put in a replacement trany when the car had 273K miles on the odo.

 

Here's my experience on bleeding/fluid replacement Subie brakes.........I did it last summer to both of my Legacy OBWs. I didn't know about any recommended wheel bleeding rotation. I just pulled off each wheel and bled. Never had any problems doing it that way. I use a "one man bleeder" kit. It is simply a plastic tube with several size fittings, one size of which will fit over the Subie bleeder valve. The plastic tube connects to a small plastic catch bottle, that has a magnet on the side of the bottle. I place the bottle with its magnet on the facing of the rotor to hold the small catch bottle vertically in place.

 

Earlier, I spray the bleeder valve with spray penetrating oil, or PB Blaster, (don't use WD-40) wait 5-10 minutes for the spray do its thread loosening magic. Then, I use a 3/8 inch drive, with I think it is an 8MM socket to "break loose" the bleeder valve. I use the drive because the twisting force of loosening the bleeder is vertical from the top, not on the side as a hand wrench would be. This helps prevent shearing/breaking off a tight bleeder, and saying "O sh*t" or worse. If the bleeder valve breaks off, then the caliper has to be replaced. Once, I have "broken loose" the bleeder, I slightly retighten, then put the bleeder hose on the nipple, and open the valve with a hand wrench.

 

I push the pedal slowly about 2/3 of it travel, let the pedal come back up, and repeat about 3 times. I then check the catch bottle to see how full it is of old brake fluid. If full, I dump out the fluid from the bottle into a larger catch can, and repeat the process. I continually check the fluid level in the reservoir, and fill with new brake fluid when low. You don't ever want the fluid reservoir to run empty, and suck air into the system. I use an entire large plastic bottle of new brake fluid to bleed all four corners of the car.

 

When the brake fluid starts flowing clear color into my catch bottle, I know that it is time to button eveything back up again. With the nipple hose still attached, I use the hand wrench to close the bleeder. Leaving the hose attached assures that no air will be able to enter the caliper through the bleeder.

 

When finished, I have a good hard brake pedal. This entire process is really easy, especially with the one man bleeder bottle. I was given mine, so don't know where to source one, but guess that any car parts house would sell them.

 

Good luck on bleeding out your brakes...........Rooster2

[john in KY]

Good idea not to push the pedal all the way to the floor when bleeding as then there is a chance of blowing the seals in the MC. I just use my other foot as a stop between the pedal and floorboard. I also just use a big screwdriver as a pry bar to compress the piston. Just leave the pad in place and crack the bleeder valve.

[kimokalihi]

thanks guys. Maybe after my next paycheck I'll pick up some new rotors and pads and the bleeder kit. Or the mighty vac, gotta research.

 

Any more tips you have I'd appreciate. Don't wanna mess up with my brakes of all things.

[kimokalihi]

You must really love that Subie to put in a replacement trany when the car had 273K miles on the odo.

 

I bought the car for $400 from my mom. I had it for probably 2 weeks and the tranny died on me going up a big hill. Just revved really high and quit putting power to the wheels. Stared rolling backwards. No idea what happened to it so I just replaced it with a 94 tranny from the junkyard. Along with the rear diff because it was a different gear ratio.

 

$175 plus core for a tranny at the junkyard. Not bad. I put it in(man was that a ***************!)with a little help from a friend. I like this car a lot. It's not in perfect condition and came with quite a few problems but I've really grown to love it. It's comfortable. Puts me to sleep on my way to work when I used to use it as my daily driver.

[Rooster2]

I bought the car for $400 from my mom. I had it for probably 2 weeks and the tranny died on me going up a big hill. Just revved really high and quit putting power to the wheels. Stared rolling backwards. No idea what happened to it so I just replaced it with a 94 tranny from the junkyard. Along with the rear diff because it was a different gear ratio.

 

$175 plus core for a tranny at the junkyard. Not bad. I put it in(man was that a ***************!)with a little help from a friend. I like this car a lot. It's not in perfect condition and came with quite a few problems but I've really grown to love it. It's comfortable. Puts me to sleep on my way to work when I used to use it as my daily driver.

 

 

$175 was a good price for a used trany. I had a 91 Legacy with about 178K miles on the odo. Last year the AT trany went bad. It refused to go into high gear. With lots of advise from this forum, I realized that my trany was toast. I didn't have the time, patience, or garage resources to replace the trany as you did, though I thought about it. I limped it into a dealer, and traded it for my 99 OBW. Still, I miss the 91, it was on its second engine, which still ran just great.

[kimokalihi]

My legacy has not given me any problems since the tranny replacement and timing belt replacement.

 

Only problem I have now is the starter doesn't work sometimes. Gotta keep clicking the key until it goes. I should replace it...lol

 

I ordered the rotors and pads off tirerack.com a couple hours ago.

 

2 Brembo replacement rotor (ea) In Stock $36.00 $72.00

2 Brembo replacement rotor (ea) In Stock $40.00 $80.00

1 Akebono pro-act ceramic pads In Stock $52.00 $52.00

1 Akebono street performance pad In Stock $71.00 $71.00

 

Shipping: $43.54

Tax: $.00

Excise Tax: $.00

State Waste Tire Fund Fee: $.00

Order Total Including Shipping: $318.54

 

I was going to get the Hawk pads and some other brand for the rears because they had the best stopping rating. But it turned out that the other brand was going to ship from another state and cost me more shipping and I didn't want to wait longer for it to get here or pay the extra shipping so I chose the other brand.

 

Oh well, I don't care. These ones are rated much quieter and supposedly have less brake dust due to different material.

 

As long as I have brakes on my car. I just replaced the fuel filter, spark plugs, air filter and I changed the oil with Amsoil Full synthetic. Topped off my tranny fluid, wiper fluid and changed my coolant.

 

I'm just about ready to go snowboarding now.

[porcupine73]

Alright sounds like a good brake order.

 

Only problem I have now is the starter doesn't work sometimes. Gotta keep clicking the key until it goes. I should replace it...lol

Typically this is the starter contacts inside in need of replacement; they're maybe $10. Sometimes it is the neutral/park safety switch thing.

[kimokalihi]

Is it easy to replace the starter contacts? I almost forgot, I have a can of seafoam waiting to be sucked into my engine for a smoke show! YAY! lol The guy at autozone told me lucas makes better stuff. I think he thought I was going to use it in my gas tank. Which I will probably do with some of it but probably 2/3 is going into the engine.

[hohieu]

Yes, they're very easy to replace if you have a Denso style starter -- which, by all accounts, I think you do. After the starter is out of the car, just remove the plate on solenoid, and it's all pretty straight forward.

 

The Mitsubishi starter in my Forester has a sealed solenoid so there's really no way to replace just the contacts.

 

You can get starter contact kits off ebay or from you local dealer, which come with new o-rings, plastic insulating grommets, and plunger, but the contacts are usually all you need -- just clean up the plunger disc with some abrasive wool before you put things back together.

 

For example,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SSK-12-STARTER-REPAIR-KIT-FOR-SUBARU-clickers-L-K_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33576QQihZ001QQitemZ110174274654QQtcZphoto

 

ah, just noticed that you have an automatic so...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SSK-6-STARTER-REPAIR-KIT-FOR-SUBARU-clickers-L-K_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33576QQihZ001QQitemZ110174275560QQtcZphoto

 

Not sure what dealers charge....

[porcupine73]

Nice info, thanks hohieu. That ebay link has a pretty neat animation of how it works. let's see how long this hotlink works....

[kimokalihi]

Purchased the starter kit. I think I need that about as bad as I need brakes or more. One of these days it's just going to refuse to start. And that'll be one of the days that I'm up at the ski resort with my girlfriend. That would suck. It's an automatic so you can't compression start it.

[brus brother]

Seems like proper order then would be:

1. Starter kit to get the "going" aspect predictable

2. Soon afterwards, the brakes to get the "stopping" aspect predicatble

If you've already changed a transmission, these procedures are fairly easy. All the above tips and hints are great.

I bled my brakes with a friend lightly depressing the pedal 2/3 and using clear tubing going into a plastic water bottle. What I have done when bleeding the brakes (without the kit) is to make sure there always is a little brake fluid in the water bottle and the tubing submersed in the fluid to be sure that you don't suck air back up when releasing the pedal.

The only time I replaced rotors was when I had vibration. The wisdom being that making the rotor thinner by grinding would lead to early warpage again. There have been numerous discussions here of the "warpage" actually just being deposits of brake material.

It takes me about 1 hour to change all 4 pads and I have been OK without changing rotors on my later year subies.

When pushing the plungers back into the calipers to make room for the new fat brake pads, I use the old barke pad for protection and a big C-clamp for compression.

In your case, the car has some years and exposure to the elements to account for so rotors probably wouldn't hurt.

30% remaining pad is a fairly substantial pad left so braking difficulties such as a spongy pedal are likely due to need to bleed brakes.

Don't forget the proper bedding of the new pads. AFTER you have determined that you have good braking abilities then properly bed the pads against the rotors. This involves a series of quick stop and gos (the article I read said from 50 to 0mh) making sure not to stop long enough for the pad material to cook onto the rotors. Then just park the car and let everything cool down. Walk away, boot up computer and learn more on USMB.

[kimokalihi]

Hmm, on tirerack(where I bought the brake pads and rotors)it gave a procedure for each brake pad brand they sold. On mine it just said to drive it for 3-4hundred miles and that would be all you'd need for bedding.

 

On others it said a series of 35mph medium braking(without coming to a complete stop)and then harder braking from 50mph or so would do it. Then you turn the car off and allow the brakes to cool.

[brus brother]

Hmm, on tirerack(where I bought the brake pads and rotors)it gave a procedure for each brake pad brand they sold. On mine it just said to drive it for 3-4hundred miles and that would be all you'd need for bedding.

 

On others it said a series of 35mph medium braking(without coming to a complete stop)and then harder braking from 50mph or so would do it. Then you turn the car off and allow the brakes to cool.

Well that first procedure will take some time! I don't quite understand how 3-400 miles and of ?what? kind of braking:eek: would matter. 250 miles... keep going, you're not there yet??

[jamal]

Here's a great resource for brake tech and bed in procedures:

 

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

[brus brother]

Here's a great resource for brake tech and bed in procedures:

 

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml

I particularly like the one procedure mentioned where a series of stops from 100mph to 50mph is used (albeit for the racing pads). That should get the attention of the neighbors!

[porcupine73]

I particularly like the one procedure mentioned where a series of stops from 100mph to 50mph is used (albeit for the racing pads). That should get the attention of the neighbors!

haha just yell out the window 'sorry can't talk now, it's ok, i'm just breaking in my new braaakkkeess.'