daeron Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 bugger me. I did the driver side about two months ago... got a JY axle for the P/S today, and im trying to get it installed, and cannot for the life of me get it to begin going into the hub.. its not the pulling through the splines part yet, I simply cant line it up to begin to engage it!! I was TRYING to see if i could get this done and still make it in to work tonight, but thats looks less and less likely. I have the LCA pivot bolt undone, and the sway bar undone.. I tried the T/C rod (or whatever its called, radius rod) but couldnt loosen it... I was going to post a thread about the CV joint carnage, because once I get some photos you wont BELIEVE what I actually drove into my driveway on last night... so I'll post those pics here when I get em.. but in the meantime, any pointers? im friggin beating my knuckles against it and cannot get it to line up and start to go in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 OK..dont take this the wrong way please..just going to cover the usuals: You are putting it in the right way? You pulled it off the right car..not a turbo or something that takes the other axle? Since I have never done axles yet Thats about all I can think of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 OK..dont take this the wrong way please..just going to cover the usuals: You are putting it in the right way? You pulled it off the right car..not a turbo or something that takes the other axle? Since I have never done axles yet Thats about all I can think of yah, I did.. and even if i didnt, I am not to that point yet. the splines are still about an inch or so shy of even trying to engage.. i cannot get the stub to line up in the hub straight enough to get it any further.... If anyone thinks I am making a dumb mistake, feel free to point it out. the axle is angering me, people trying to help never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 can you compare the new axle to the old one and make absolutely sure it's correct? you didn't pull the axle from a 5 lug converted vehicle or something similiar like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 did you take off the strut? That always helped me, Ive replaced the axles on my car 3 times and once on my mom's gl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 got it. I think i may have been having difficulty engaging the axle into the bearing, or the bearing spacer... in any case, i removed the caliper and rotor and its coming along fine now. Thanks for the thoughts, will update this thread once i get the job done, and eventually with a couple shots of my all-but-grenaded axle... anyone who doubts the power of prayer, doubts what got me home last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundedbrat Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 sounds to me like the spacer that sits between the bearings is catching on the axle. reach in the hole and align the spacer with the bearings. hope this helps have changed many a cv and they are rarely easy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivantruckman Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 count the splines, it should be 23, unless its a turbo, somtimes they can also be a little nicked , check each spline for dents or nicks, also somtimes rebuilders will put rust protectant on it , you can use a small file to remove the nicks, paint thinner or kerosene to remove the grime. you may have nicked the hub as well, look inside the splines. i have had some go on hard. if you can get it on enough to start the axle nut you can use the nut to draw it in all the way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Everyone is missing the fact that there is a tool for pulling that axle through. It has nothing to do with splines or turbos or spacers. All ea82 axles fit the hub the same. The problem is that the axle is supposed to be super tight, press fitted inside the bearings. It's not getting stuck, it's waiting to be pressed:) Fuji makes a tool that is basically a slide hammer that threads onto the end of the axle. My method, when they are stubborn, is to pull the caliper, hub and rotor. then carefully pry out the grease seal. Now I use two pieces of angle iron to span across the gap of the bearing opening, one on either side of the axle. Put a big washer and the axle nut back on and tighten against the angle iron. Once it bottoms out, you may need to pop it off and use additional washer stacked to pull it through more. This is a good time to shoot some grease on the bearings. Then reinstall the grease seal and the hub/rotor/caliper. The end of the axle should be out far enough to get the nut on now, and then pull it through the rest of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 stupid roll pin. Im punching it the right way, pin placed in on dimpled side.. in fact, the pin i am hammering right now never even left the axle i am installing. I had this same issue on the other side; the axle is pinned, and the pin is stuck about halfway in. When I did the other side, both the pin from my car and the donor car pin got bent before they went all the way through the output shaft and back into the DOJ housing on the other side... What I did THEN was simply install a machine screw and double nut it. With the cat in the way, i cannot DO that. As it stands right now, the roll pin is engaged in the tranny output shaft. theres a bit more than an inch sticking out. That inch or so doesnt seem to interfere with anything as i rotate the wheel now, but who knows what will happen under load. I dunno, im venting as much as anything else.. step inside, grab a cigarette, take a break, and regroup. The rest of everythings back together, except for the final torque on the castle nut and the cotter pin. oh, and a question... the CV joint (outer) on the axle I am installing is kinda tough to move through its range of motion. Good thing, or bad thing? hopefully someday soon I will be taking both these axles off, removing the boots, re greasing the joints, re greasing the wheel bearings, and treating the boots with some rubber compound.... SO, if its a crummy axle, I am already planning on removing and re installing it sometime soon anyhow.. 99% of the problems Ive had working on this car were problems with me more than the car.... this time, it was the car treating me like dirt. I don't normally get mad at this car, but I am now. Kinda makes me feel... dirty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 count the splines, it should be 23, Those splines are on the DOJ on the tranny end, not the hub end. My method, when they are stubborn, is to pull the caliper, hub and rotor. then carefully pry out the grease seal. Now I use two pieces of angle iron to span across the gap of the bearing opening, one on either side of the axle. Put a big washer and the axle nut back on and tighten against the angle iron. Once it bottoms out, you may need to pop it off and use additional washer stacked to pull it through more. This is a good time to shoot some grease on the bearings. Then reinstall the grease seal and the hub/rotor/caliper. The end of the axle should be out far enough to get the nut on now, and then pull it through the rest of the way. Basically exactly what I did, except I used a combination of a 24 mm wrench, and a claw hammer, and between those two "convincing" tools I managed to eek it out far enough that I could engage the threads with the hub ON, and it was smooth sailing from there. I just can NOT, for the life of me, remember how I got this on the other side... I want to say I found a way to bang the axle in from the tranny side somehow, but that seems absurd! I know it was tricky, but on THIS side it simply was NOT lining up right, on top of everything else. Once I got the hub off, I could see the bearings and spacer, and managed to line it up and get it in. The annoying part is, I just installed new front brake pads two days ago... Wish I'da had time to snag the axle THEN. O well, extra night off. Maybe I can find someone to keep me company, keep the night from being a total loss. Anyhow, back to buggering my roll pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 you have the axle on 180 degrees off, I had the same problem. pull it off the stub shaft and rotate it 180 degrees and the pin should fit fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 not to be rude, but no, i dont. I eyeballed straight through the hole and its lined up just right. If you look at the DOJ spline you can see that one hole goes straight through a peak, and the other hole straight through a valley (odd number spline count) and its easy to line it up either dead on, or off by one spline, without fighting it. I just punched the stupid pin out, put a nail in there, and bent it over. It will work for now.. my box O' screws is at a friends house or I would have simply found a way to use the same kind of machine screw and double nutted it again, that worked GREAT last time because the machine screw in question filled the hole just about perfectly. Anyhow, shes back together and driving fine. Next stop: Governor rehab and an ATF flush, then install the PCV recall kit i picked up at the JY today and double check my TPS. My axle donor car had already had the alt/AC compressor removed, so pulling the TPS off of it as a spare was a no-brainer, and I needed a couple of screws with good heads on them anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 not to be rude, but no, i dont. I eyeballed straight through the hole and its lined up just right. If you look at the DOJ spline you can see that one hole goes straight through a peak, and the other hole straight through a valley (odd number spline count) and its easy to line it up either dead on, or off by one spline, without fighting it. Hhhhmmmm - the only time I've had that happen (and I've lost count of the number of these EA axles I've done ) is when the axle was 180 out. It's just close enough that you can get it about halfway in (it's a spring pin, so it will compress slightly) before it binds. Not trying to be rude either, and I'm sure you know very well what you are doing as I know you are very careful about such things..... as am I. But I can also say with some reservation that this has happened to ME on multiple occasions. They look real close when they are 180 out. I find that it's best to remind myself that the roll pin should go in almost without effort. Light tapping from a ball peen hammer is all that should be required. Whail on it and trying to get them back out if they bind is a real mess. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundedbrat Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Try talking dirty to it that always works for me also a slight taper on the end of the roll pin works wonders. To pull the axle through the bearings I use a 10 lb weight with a hole big enough for the threaded portion of the axle then use castle nut to pull axle through:headbang: your getting there you just have to be tougher than the old *************** of a car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 Not trying to be rude either, and I'm sure you know very well what you are doing as I know you are very careful about such things..... as am I. But I can also say with some reservation that this has happened to ME on multiple occasions. They look real close when they are 180 out. ..Yah?? It looked great, and I looked at the peak/valley alignment four times before I committed.... I will bear these facts in mind when I go to regrease these axles and the bearings... I still have two good roll pins, and a supply of more is easily had at the JY. I gotta go back tomorrow anyhow with my dad, I found a 3000GT and my mom's P/S window regulator went out a month ago... someones been scouring the yards and snagging them out as soon as they drop ($100+ used on ebay) so we don't have much choice. In the meantime, I nailed it, and it seems OK for now. It goes without saying that I will double check the nail when I re tighten the castle nut after tomorrow night's shift. In my defense, though, all four roll pins (two on my car, and two different donor cars) were rather difficult to remove, all the way to the end.. so even if I am wrong, I have a decent excuse. pics of CV joint coming later tonight, if i can get a decent camera.. might have to wait until tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Sand the corrosion off the pins, and a round file will take care of the stubs and the DOJ cup. Then use a goodly amount of anti-seize. That should make it easier. And get a GOOD flashlight so you can look through the holes and make sure they are aligned. I am a mechanic ever day of the week, and the one thing that's always on my belt is my flashlight. Recently upgraded to a Leatherman Stainless Steel LED unit that ROCKS. It's 10 times brighter than any of the mini-mag's that my co-workers carry. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 dareon, time to step back and take a quick breather, I know how it is bud. Firstly, did you put any grease or anti sieze on the splines? This will help it later down the road when it comes time to do it again because inevitably, its a Subaru thing.... Second, I also know that it is very easy to get them 180 out and break everything off inside of it and then having to drill it out using 4 different drill bits because 2 broke off inside the roll pin hole as well. Yes, I've been down THAT exact rough road. Not very pleasant. Also the roll pin's job is to keep the DOJ from sliding off of the diff stub, NOT to keep it in place which is why it has splines. I used a zip tie for 600 miles because I was too lazy to get in there and replace it with a roll pin because it worked. Only time it'll want to try and slide off with force is when its turned to the lock and even then its not enough force to break a zip tie so a nail should be ok. I've even used a nail as a cotter pin on an axle nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast I Drive Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Bailing wire can fix it if all else fails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 just leave it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudduck Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I've even used a nail as a cotter pin on an axle nut. I've done this a time or two. Nails work as a great replacement for cotter pins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I'm with the 180 degree out camp. I've done my share of these and occasionally with have it 1/2 rotation out. You can still sight through the hole, but if you look closely enough it's only half a hole! Bailing wire works, a nail, the right size machince screw will work......leaving it out will work UNTIL the first time you stretch the suspension and then the DOJ will fall off the stub axle on the transmission. Very embarassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azsubaru Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 ...the pin is stuck about halfway in. ...theres a bit more than an inch sticking out. This is a classic 180 degree off symptom. I don't know what you have or haven't tried, but If you haven't actually took it loose, turned it 180, and tried it that way, you should at least try it. Many of my most frustrating problems have come about because I just "knew" that it couldn't be (fill in your unchecked item here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 well, the overwhelming consensus seems to be that I very very likely am 180* or one tooth off.. while I highly doubted that during assembly, rest assured I will examine the matter soon. Both axles are coming back off for a complete axle and bearing re grease and boot treatment within the foreseeable future, and I will make sure they are on right after that. If I still need to use the double-nutted machine screw, then I will; that measure seemed at least as reliable, if not moreso, than the roll pin (providing I eyeball it every 10K miles or so...) Thanks for the feedback (even if it DID make me feel like i may have made a dumb mistake after crowing my "right"ness) :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 not to be rude, but no, i dont. I eyeballed straight through the hole and its lined up just right. If you look at the DOJ spline you can see that one hole goes straight through a peak, and the other hole straight through a valley (odd number spline count) and its easy to line it up either dead on, or off by one spline, without fighting it. Re-reading this, and knowing you (sorta)It really seems like you've got it. In my experience the pin wont go in very far at all if it's 180 out. But what I have had happen, is that the hole in the "new" axle is smaller than original, and smaller than the hole in the stub by just a bit too much. So the pin get's to expand a bit inside the stub, then is forced to try and shrink (or compress) into the "bottom" hole on the axle. espescially if the lip of that hole is very sharp. It basically gouges into the pin and stalls it. Punch it out, is there a semicircle gouge in the rollpin about a 1/4 inch up from the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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