brokebill Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 86 GL wagon 1.8 carb straight drive. idler pulley on timing belt bearings went. cover held it in so it made it home with the left belt still spinning on broken pulley running rough but running.replaced both belts, pulley, and tensioners .lined up valve timing marks on flywheel (not ignition marks) lined up timing mark on left cam sprocket put on belt and set tension.rotated flywheel 360 degrees and relined timing marks on it. lined up timing mark on right side cam sprocket put on belt set tension. put it back together (without busted front cover for now) . started up and idled fine. started to pull out and had very little power. no timing light so decided to turn distributor a little to see if it helped. it did but had to turn it all the way clockwise.ran about 90% right. drove a couple hours and it started running real rough. tried moving dist. back counter clockwise a little and it would die. TDC on the flywheel(ignition marks) and the rotor points to number 1. timing cover is off so i can see the cam sprockets and they look right(when ones at 12 the other is at 6) .also put in new plugs when did work. anybody have any advice? i tried to be detailed so you know exactly what was done. ran fine before so any help would be appreciated. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 What you described is the right way to do belts. Turning the distributor clockwise advanced the timing...Double check it all? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Get a timing light on her. You can seriously wreck that motor by guessing the timing, I killed my first soob that way when I was a teenager. After you get a timing light there are 2 other things. You probably have the drivers side belt one tooth off. Which would put the disty off as well. When you adjust so the disty fires at a good time for the drivers side, the passenger side valve timing becomes an issue. Recheck. Don't go by the notches in the cover. The covers warp from heat and time. Align them excactly vertical, even if it's not on the notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 could you have the ignition wires on wrong? counter clockwise 1-3-4-2 with #! being thre rearmost terminal to the right of the cap screw, it should be looking straight at the master cylinder. also when the disty is a #1 the passenger side cam sprocket dot will be ponting at the hard edge on the corner of the vlave cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 could you have the ignition wires on wrong? counter clockwise 1-3-4-2. Miles really does know that it's 1-3-2-4. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebill Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Get a timing light on her. You can seriously wreck that motor by guessing the timing, I killed my first soob that way when I was a teenager. After you get a timing light there are 2 other things. You probably have the drivers side belt one tooth off. Which would put the disty off as well. When you adjust so the disty fires at a good time for the drivers side, the passenger side valve timing becomes an issue. Recheck. Don't go by the notches in the cover. The covers warp from heat and time. Align them excactly vertical, even if it's not on the notch. probably right about being 1 tooth off. be a couple days till i can pull it apart and redo it and i'll post the outcome. i just joined but have been checking out the advice on here a while. its really great to have experienced feedback on troubleshooting for subarus.they are a different kind of animal but hard to beat.thanks again all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Make sure the belts are on correctly first. Instead of turning the engine over after the first belt, just put one mark straight up, and the other straight down and install both belts. Remove the #1 plug and turn over till you feel air past your finger. Put the flywheel at 0 and that's TDC on #1 compression. Turn the flywheel back to 20 degrees BTDC, and align the rotor on the distributor with whichever post you want to be the #1 plug wire on the cap. Order the plug wires 1-3-2-4. Note that depending on which post you use as #1, there are 4 correct ways to install the distributor. Fire it up. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Bill: Sometimes when you get in so deep, you've just got to start from scratch. Over-anlayzing and over-thinking can get you into trouble if you can't second-guess yourself. You were probably ok until you moved the disty. But now, who knows... I would start off getting the distributer lined up properly. Also, take another look at your wires/firing order if you fooled around with those. The write-up in "How to keep your Subaru Alive" is very good for re-setting the disty. Once that is done, you want to get your belts on correctly. Miles' write-up on belt installation is a must read for this procedure. At this point the car should run roughly - or better. You could set timing to specs, but often it is not the optimal position as far as power and performance. You could go "old skool" and advance the timing until it pings. The downside is that MPG's will be lower. Don't forget to follow the directions for by-passing the ECU (on the sticker under your hood). good luck, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebill Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Bill: Sometimes when you get in so deep, you've just got to start from scratch. Over-anlayzing and over-thinking can get you into trouble if you can't second-guess yourself. You were probably ok until you moved the disty. But now, who knows... I would start off getting the distributer lined up properly. Also, take another look at your wires/firing order if you fooled around with those. The write-up in "How to keep your Subaru Alive" is very good for re-setting the disty. Once that is done, you want to get your belts on correctly. Miles' write-up on belt installation is a must read for this procedure. At this point the car should run roughly - or better. You could set timing to specs, but often it is not the optimal position as far as power and performance. You could go "old skool" and advance the timing until it pings. The downside is that MPG's will be lower. Don't forget to follow the directions for by-passing the ECU (on the sticker under your hood). good luck, John plug wires fine i just took them off 1 at a time when i changed plugs which i actually did after initial startup when it idled fine but ran out real rough.didn't change cars performance though. then i turned the disty eventually all the way clockwise and it idled great and ran out pretty close to right temporarily. maybe a dumb question but can i set the disty back to original position by sight since the shiny impressions left by the hold down bolts from years of being in the same place is real obvious?i know it will need fine tuned but maybe for a decent starting point. also i keep hearing 1 holddown bolt for removal or adjustment of disty and mine has two. 1 on the back side of disty and the other on the left(drivers) side of disty. wisdom appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 They all have two bolt ears, but you really only need one. I guess with 2 it might keep the shaft abit more "true" to the bore, but I doubt it matters. Double check the belt timing for sure, I really think you are one tooth off. Or.... did you remove the 2 crank pulleys? Possibly put them on backwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Mine all have 2 bolts. Most I have never moved. The first few times I changed a timing belt, I checked with a timing light, but never had any reason to adjust. If you move the disty back to the original marks, it should run as it did before changing the belts. Unless they are off a tooth. And assuming you didn't remove the disty. A degree or 2 shouldn't make it go from running fantastic to running crappy. At least good enough for a rough reset / start point. If you want to fine tune for performance or MPG, then get out the timing light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebill Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 They all have two bolt ears, but you really only need one. I guess with 2 it might keep the shaft abit more "true" to the bore, but I doubt it matters. Double check the belt timing for sure, I really think you are one tooth off. Or.... did you remove the 2 crank pulleys? Possibly put them on backwards? thanks. didn't remove crank pulleys(sprockets).left belt went off and on fine over sprocket for right belt so didnt see the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 thanks. didn't remove crank pulleys(sprockets).left belt went off and on fine over sprocket for right belt so didnt see the need. Good, so check that off the list. Next check the pulleys are excactly 180, not a tooth off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Good, so check that off the list. Next check the pulleys are excactly 180, not a tooth off. As mentioned above, you should be able to get your car running right by returning the distributer to the original position (assuming the sprockets have not moved). However, the distributer could still be off - and this would throw off all the other components as well. It will be difficult/impossible to replicate getting everything to "run wrong in unison" again, and you can forget about any kind of meaningful timing adjustment using a strobe. I would go ahead and temporarily restore it back to where you started (for peace of mind). Then, when you have time, remove the disty and do the whole procedure right. If not, you risk being in an even worse predicament next time around - when your timing really get mixed up on the side of the road somewhere. good luck, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebill Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Good, so check that off the list. Next check the pulleys are excactly 180, not a tooth off. appreciate all the feedback.sunday i'll turn the disty back to original position(never removed it , just turned it out of desperation) and then i'll pull belts back off and redo it all. since outer timing covers are off it shouldn't take too long. i think its probably off a tooth . live and learn. again thanks everyone for the help and i'll let yall know how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokebill Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 appreciate all the feedback.sunday i'll turn the disty back to original position(never removed it , just turned it out of desperation) and then i'll pull belts back off and redo it all. since outer timing covers are off it shouldn't take too long. i think its probably off a tooth . live and learn. again thanks everyone for the help and i'll let yall know how it turns out. Well, turned disty back to where it was originally,pulled it back apart and sure enough was 1 tooth off on left side. put it back together(checking and rechecking all marks as i did) and it runs great. appreciate you all. with older cars getting harder to find parts and info for the knowledge shared here is priceless.thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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