davebugs Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Here’s the deal. I’m re-assembling a 97 2.5 DOHC after having the heads done as part of fixing the head gaskets. My first Subaru Internal experience. A couple of questions. I’ve been following the FSM from a link here at USMB. I’ve broken TWO cam cap bolts. Both the ‘front’ ones that go over the cam seal. The FSM the way I read it has 14.5 ft lbs for all cam cap bolts. All the other ‘internal’ cam cap bolts are larger diameter. Are these one use bolts? Do you buy new bolts? Do you torque to something other than 14.5 ft lbs? Seemed like original HG’s at 183k There seemed to be some RTV (actually like ultra grey) in the corners by the front cam cap. Since there is no gasket there do you folks put a light coat on the front cam cap before bolting it down? I see that this fella did http://home.comcast.net/%7Eskipnospam/Head_gasket_replacement.html This has been another source that luckily I had bookmarked and was able to refer to. Do you place any assembly lube on the camshaft seal on either the inside or outside? Mine look o.k. so I may re-use them even though I did pick up new ones. Thoughts? Do you give the lifter springs a shot of oil before placing assembly lube on the valve caps (don’t know what else to call the things that cover the valves that have the shims in them)? It’s been a little difficult doing research with the reliability issues here at USMB. I apologize if this has been covered. Can someone help or point me to a thread or threads with this level of detail? I’ve been using the FSM section on head replacement mostly. I have it downloaded. I’ve been mostly unable to look for real world documented experiences here – which I find even more worthwhile. Any other pointers on these matters – or surprises yet to come with simple things like valve covers would be appreciated. I do know that I will install the plug wires before putting this puppy back into the car. Anyway to check the valve clearance without the TB on? Forgot to check them before dis-assembly. No known issues - just seems like the time to check them. Thanks, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Torque on those bolts should be 95 in/lbs. max. Do not reuse your old cam seals. Apply break in grease to the sealing surface of the seals. Yes, you need to apply sealant to the front cam caps. Yes, put assembly lube or oil on all moving internal parts. Lifter buckets, cam journels. With out the special tool for adjusting valves, you will need to pull the cams back off to replace shims as needed. So check before complete assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Apply break in grease to the sealing surface of the seals. what is break in grease? better than oil obviously because? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Just any grease or assembly lube. Assembly lube/grease = break in lube/grease. Prevents wear to moving parts/seals untill oil gets there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 It's probably similar to what I use--assembly lube. It's basically light weight grease in a squeeze bottle. It literally looks and feels like lotion (doesn't smell as nice though!). It's great for assembly. Just wipe it on, and you don't have to worry about oil running out and contaminating other things before you can finish assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Assembly lube example: http://www.torcoracingoils.com/Products/ProductView.aspx?id=b13fff30-cda5-425d-8b1c-b3299fb9413b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Thanks for the replies. Where did you find the torque spec's? I may double check the valve cover spec's. The way I read the FSM it says 14.5 lbs for the cam cap bolts. I'll have to do some math to figure out if my torque wrench will go that low - like 6 lbs? Otherwise I guess 'snug' will have to do. You're suggesting that much lighter setting for all the cam cap bolts or just the front ones? Yea - I use assembly lube - Permatex I think. Kinda red/maroon. Comes in a little bottle with a popup spout. In a jamb before I've used Lucas oil treatment or years ago STP. Something a little thicker than oil so that it doesn't run off but will be dissolved by the oil. I always do an oil change pretty quickly after having a engine's internals exposed. Sometimes it's tough keeping gasket surfaces clean if you use regular oil until you get everything installed(gaskets). The only other information that I may be able to add is that the garage was 45-50 degrees. It is January in Pittsburgh. I was taking advantage of this summer like weather. Until this setback. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Hm...95 inch-pound(f) would be about 7.9 foot-pound(f). You'd need ideally an inch pound like 0-250 inch-pound(f) wrench to measure this torque. If using like a 150 foot-pound(f) torque wrench to try to read this value, it will be grossly inaccurate in the lower end of the range. One foot-pound(f) = 12 inch-pound(f). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Hm...95 inch-pound(f) would be about 7.9 foot-pound(f). You'd need ideally an inch pound like 0-250 inch-pound(f) wrench to measure this torque. If using like a 150 foot-pound(f) torque wrench to try to read this value, it will be grossly inaccurate in the lower end of the range. One foot-pound(f) = 12 inch-pound(f). Wow - math error already. I was dividing by 16 instead of 12 for some reason. I guess sometimes the metric system actually makes more sense. My torque wrench goes from 5 lbs to 80 or 90 (I forget). After the first bolt snapped I did all the remaining bolts to 8 lbs before resetting the wrench to 14.5. If I set it to 7.5 (cause I'm paranoid) or 8 I think I'll be o.k. I've recently had practice with EZ outs - earlier tonight. I'd still like to know if I'm mis-reading the FSM or if there is a better torque guide. I understand it has the wrong torque for the crank bolt but I haven't looked for that lately. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 The site has been up long enough that I did find a few other threads about this. Thanks for the responses. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83056&highlight=torque+spec http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53284&highlight=torque+spec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 My torque wrench goes from 5 lbs to 80 or 90 (I forget). After the first bolt snapped I did all the remaining bolts to 8 lbs before resetting the wrench to 14.5. If I set it to 7.5 (cause I'm paranoid) or 8 I think I'll be o.k. That is the wrong torque wrench for this application. It will not be very accurate at the low end of the range. When set to 8 it could be torquing double that or more. Also if it is a clicker type it may be out of calibration. You want a low range 1/4" or 3/8" drive torque wrench for this application, i.e. up to 200 inch-pounds(f). Crank bolt torques varied from like 80-130 ft-lb(f) depending on model year etc. I think my '96 said 80 or so; my '00 said maybe 109 I think. The crank bolts looked identical to me. I went with 130ft-lb(f) on both hoping they won't back out on me (that's not pretty). I did see on endwrench though where they said they've seen a few crank snouts snapped right off from overtorquing the bolt with an impact wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 You can bet that if you had the engine assembled by a dealer tech, the only bolts that they would torque would be the headbolts. Every other bolt on the engine you tighten untill it feels appropriate for the size of the bolt. Use a smaller ratchet on the cam cap bolts, and just snug them up. Don't crank on them, just tight and then a little force more. If you just trust the torque wrench, you don't really get a feel for how hard you cranked it down. That leads to snapped or loose bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Update: Got 2 new bolts form the dealer. Torqued those front bolts to 7 lbs (a little light but I was paranoid). After reading another thread here I loosened up the front bolts that were at 14 and made them 7 as well. Almost done with this job. Having trouble getting the TB lined up exactly. The one that I took off wasn't exact either. Just can't figure out where to compromise if I have to. I printed the TB section of the FSM last night and will try again today. Then it's back into the car - hopefully while it's still warm here. Thanks for the assistance. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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