nipper Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I have noticed Blu is getting louder in the rear. At 210,000 miles he is allowed. I am pretty sure its not the rear diff, so I think in the spring I will get Blu new rear wheel bearings. Looking at the FSM, it looks doable in the driveway, if i can snag the tool. AM i underestimating this, or should i let a machine shop deal with the bearing part of it. nipper (and yes im bored so i am thinking about spring work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I have the same job to do but up front. We need the hub tamer at its doable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Hi nipper. Spring work indeed! Subaru fever. You probably already have seen the endwrench article about using the slide hammer puller method http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/WheelBearing.pdf I think hohieu has done it with the hub tamer gadget. harbor freight sells something like the hub tamer but not sure if it has all the right size adapters and such. Getting that big lateral link bolt out in the rear always seems to be a issue (not sure if that's necesary if using the hub tamer/slide hammer method) See I didn't even post any pics in this thread yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I have noticed Blu is getting louder in the rear. At 210,000 miles he is allowed. I am pretty sure its not the rear diff, so I think in the spring I will get Blu new rear wheel bearings. Looking at the FSM, it looks doable in the driveway, if i can snag the tool. AM i underestimating this, or should i let a machine shop deal with the bearing part of it. nipper Are you using OEM bearings? Or is there better after market ones? Mine are also getting louder back there, so I plan on changing them soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Are you using OEM bearings? Or is there better after market ones? Mine are also getting louder back there, so I plan on changing them soon. The original bearings have lasted 212,000 miles, when i do it i'll go with OE, as they obviously have done something right nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon38iowa Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The original bearings have lasted 212,000 miles, when i do it i'll go with OE, as they obviously have done something right nipper Indeed, That's a respectable amount of miles on Them! I hope mine last as long. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 hey nip. the rear EJ stuff i've seen can be a real nightmare when the bolts won't come out or shear off. it's not a bad job, but if you have any rust issues or suspect that long bolt to be a problem this might not be a fun one for you. actually...i'm fortunate enough that ever rear EJ work i've done has been a total PITA. sheared bolts everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohieu Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 That's right. I, like others on this board, had to cut the lateral link bolt off. Aside from that, it's a very simple job, especially with the hub tamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 i'm hesitant to do this...mostly acting like an old dog that can't learn new tricks. i need to do rear bearings in my legacy but bearings seem difficult. how/where do i press them? how hard is it to pack them properly and resinstall them to the right depth or alignment or whatever? i do have the FSM's, so i suppose that's a good start. i'll need a hub tamer to make this simple? bearing and grease recommendations? i should use Subaru updated roller bearings in the rear? Am I wrong in making the "observation" that it seems like a fair number of EJ vehicles need wheel bearing work? seems like i see more wheel bearing stuff on the new gen than old gen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Start now with weekly applications of PB Blaster and the bolts might come out. It's great when I get to work on a Colorado Car, instead of the rust belt stuff. Life is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Wow, I need to do this to my wife's outback and it looks like a real bear of a job. Why couldn't it be like the Loyale rear bearings? Where can I look at the bearing tamer and does it replace all of the tools noted int the endwrench article? Her car sounds terrible and we are taking it on a road trip in June. I want to have it done before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 I'm debating paying someone to do this. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 i think my solution is to just take a set of hubs into a machine shop and let them do it. i've seen quotes of $400 - $800 for both side wheel bearings. and $50 - $85 for a shop to press them in. i have an extra legacy i can pull hubs from so i can have them ready to go. i've seen spare hubs for $40-$60 each, so buying those seems like a reasonable option as well. i was going to do that until i realized i have a spare legacy, duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohieu Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It's acutally quite a simple job with the right tools. You're right, the Hub Tamer removes a lot of the guess work. Installing them to the right dept is quite simple. the bearing will bottom out into the housing, and there's an internal c-clip that retains the bearing. But you're absoutely right, removing the long pinch bolt can be the most difficult part of the job. They have a tendency to seize inside the lateral link bushing collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It's a bit time consuming to do it by taking them off the car - but it saves in aggravation and the need to buy the hub tamer. After FIRST loosening the axle nut while the wheel is still on the ground... (LOTS easier than doing it with the wheel OFF) The problem is getting the housing free - the trailing arm link is difficult to get off (take that one off FIRST - it's the rubber mounted one that goes "forward" (17mm) and saying it's "difficult" to loosen the NUT is being kind - there's almost no clearance for a wrench). Then the "long bolt" (19mm) can be a problem unless you live in "no salt land" (salt makes them tend to corrode in between the bolt and the housing/carrier so use no seize when you put it back together) - the problem is that they seize in the housing (which can be lessened by applying a liberal coat of penetrating oil) Access to an impact wrench might help. I only dealt with "west coast cars" and even after 11 years they weren't rusted in place - YMMV. The axle just popped right out (er.. "in" actually), no rust in there either. IF you are dealing with anti-lock, you have to take off the sensor as well as disconnect both the brake line (on drum brakes) and the e-brake cable (all of this AFTER removing the drum/rotor (+caliper on the disk brake models) . IF you have drum brakes, you might consider doing the brakes at the same time if they are worn down Then remove the 2 strut bolts last and the unit is "free". Now the fun starts - you need access to a hydraulic press and a set of "tools". First you press out the hub by supporting the unit with the bearing puller adapter and holding it up on the arbor press plates. Don't put the puller jaws so close together that it catches the outside 1/2 inner race of the bearing and you will need to use a socket that will clear the inside 1/2 of the bearing inner race (it has to go thru the race to press out the hub - smaller than the race, larger than the hub) Once the hub pops out (with the inner race still attached) you are ready to remove the spring clip. Pull the old seal and remove the large thin ring that retains the bearing in the housing - it's just under the seal and is likely coated with some bearing grease. There was a "notch" in the one I pulled to enable getting a screwdriver underneath and "working it out". It makes it easier IF you remove the backing plate so you won't accidentally bend it during the later press work (4 bolts, 14mm, they were pretty tight) once the retaining ring is out, you get to flip it back over and press out the bearing itself. Pull the 2 grease seals (2 on the inside - 1 "inner" and 1 "outer") Take a look at the position of the hub relative to the inner race. That's the depth you will be pressing the hub into the "new" bearing. Now to do this RIGHT, you need to have an adapter that will catch the bearing lip (the outer race) as well as support the hub so that the bearing will pass thru. The backup brute force method is to put a socket large enough to press against the remaining inner race and press it out that way. The problem with doing it that way is that the outer race tends to expand against the housing because of the load being sent thru the bearing by the inner race. A slight "clearance" is a lot easier to deal with - simple slip fit. Once the bearing is out, pull the inner race off the hub (use the bearing separator) and pull the old grease seal clean the metal pieces up and get ready to put it back together. at this point you will have 1 inner grease seal, 1 inner dust shield seal, 1 outer grease seal, 1 new bearing (doesn't matter whether ball or roller - a well lubricated, well sealed ball bearing lasts just as long as a roller bearing) 1 retaining ring, and the housing. I sat the housing on a piece of 4x4 to make sure it wouldn't damage lips where the seals were going to go in (another post talked about the seal not wanting to go in - some corrosion might leave a "burr" right at the edge of the lip. A quick flick with a rat tail file will take off the.burr easily. make sure the housing is clean - the main enemy of a bearing is DIRT - abrasive of any kind) Clean and lubricate the "new" bearing (the ball bearing will be harder to take apart than the roller bearing) and lube the outside of the bearing as well as the hub inner. Put the bearing into position on the housing and using the old bearing as a press tool, press the bearing into the housing until it "bottoms" (press ONLY on the OUTER RACE or you will damage the bearing) At this point you may need to curse and play with it a bit until you are SURE it's bottomed out while you try to install the retaining ring. IF it snaps in place and won't come out, it's "in". IF it doesn't snap in, the bearing IS NOT SEATED!! Press a little more. Reinstall the backing plate (I loctited the bolts with blue) and torque to 40 (35 to 43) Install the outer grease seal. Now, you need a socket large enough to contact the bearing inner race. Lube the inner race and the hub and the seal too. Press the hub into the bearing and stop when the hub reaches the same point as it was before you pressed it out of the old bearing. Put the inner seals on (there are 2 of them remember) Congratulations - you have just installed a rear wheel bearing. Reverse the removal process and reassemble the rest. Axle nut torque 145 ft-lbs (or 2 men and a small boy standing on a breaker bar - that's related to the "axle nut torque thread") I put anti-seize on all of the bolts as I reassembled them and some down the axle splines as well guess what - since you are doing BOTH of them, you get to do it all AGAIN - ain't it FUN??? takes about 2 hours per side the first time (less if you have the honor of doing it more frequently and get into the "hang of it" - more if you have to deal with %$@!!! corroded bolts and parts or a stubborn trailing arm link bolt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 It would be interesting if someone froze the bearing and heated the hub to 250 or so. Lots of interference parts are put together this way and it should make it a slip fit. Then you would only have to press in the hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 It would be interesting if someone froze the bearing and heated the hub to 250 or so. Lots of interference parts are put together this way and it should make it a slip fit. Then you would only have to press in the hub. There are two kinds of interfernce fits, one is done by heat (or cold) and the other is a press fit. They are not interchangable as one has a larger tolerance then the other. Heat fit is a much larger dimensional change then a press fit, and may warp the part. It takes alot of heat (more then mots people have available to them) to heat up a chunk of metal properly. Of course then there is that entire OWOWOWOWOHOT thing nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northgeorgiaroo Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I thread searched wheel bearings a few months ago and found a thread here that sent me to a really informative, if somewhat pretentious (what a shock) thread on nasioc (no offense to dual members :-p ): http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=787070&highlight=wheel+bearing&page=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I considered the other day going up to the Harbor Freight and buying a shop press. For the price that I have paid for a machine shop to press bearings into a hub, I could have bought my own press and done it myself and not have to rely on someone during the week to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 i'm all about buying a press too...but only if it's not too hard to bung the bearings or hub up? is there any risk at ruining things if i do it? well i know there's a risk - but how hard is it to do without doing damage? press fit sounds like tight tolerances and i'm a very strange engineer...attention to detail is not my strong point. then once you buy the press - how hard is it to get all the gadgets needed to use it properly. what are those parts called you use to press with, the name is lost right now. do you buy a big set of those or what? i do enough damage with BFH's, digging bars, crow bars, welders. torches and presses are probably not machinery i should have!? but i do want them. any press owners/users? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I purchased a 6 ton no name press off Craigs list. I bent the frame of the press trying to seperate the hub from the knuckle. 50 bucks down the drain. If someone can confirm a harbor freight press would work I would buy one. My local shop wants 50 bucks per knuckle to press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I have and use a HF 12ton press. IF you can bend it... Works quite well - removed and re-installed pax rear housing, hub. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33497 I could have gotten it done for $20/per side here (but I had the press - just had to wait for dry weather since it's sitting outside) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailhard Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 My 2K forester left rear wheel bearing is noisy too at 93k. Damn, it was easy to do this on a VW Rabbit... Sounds like a royal PITA!, also I'm in the salt belt and have no garage. What would a ( turns head and coughs ) Dealer charge for this? I'm due for a timing belt too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT95 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I'm not sure what the Subaru dealership would charge for the job, but I had quotes of anywhere from $300 to $500 for local garages to do two sides--labor only. (I only needed one side though.) I did everything myself, except for the actual replacement of the hub, though. I had to pay a local mechanic $60 to press out my old bearings and press in the new one. I removed everything and took the hub to him. I have never done this before and it wasn't as bad as I thought. (I put it back on Saturday.) The install was MUCH quicker than the disassembly. I thought $60 was too high, but compared to paying someone for the whole job, that was a deal I guess. If you have a book and the tools, go for it. Let someone else do the press work, and save yourself some cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 IF you don't need anything other than the bearing and seals - I paid $67 for NGK rear (importexperts) and then got seals locally from a parts store ($17 for all 3) Depending on whether you reuse the nuts from the suspension bolts and the axle nut - add another $20 or so. IF drum brakes, need to have a bottle of brake fluid (not req for discs) It takes maybe 2 hours to do a side (the FIRST one will take a lot longer - learning curve) Figure $100/hour for dealer service (don't know what the book allowed time is) Of course, the "hub tamer" would get it done as well (might even be faster because of not needing to pull the housing and deal with the drum brakes) but there is that specific cost and a hub tamer doesn't have the "additional application" of the press. By the way - I've been wondering if an impact wrench on the "long bolt" might get it out easier? IF it's rusted in, the impact will turn it. Good 6 point impact socket to essentially eliminate the head damage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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