carfreak85 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I think someone has done it before, but if not, what do you guys and gals think? I have the proper housings now. Would I get pulled over and fined for having HIDs on an old rump roast subaru? Should I just get HID foggies instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevethefolkie Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Not sure of the laws in your neck of the woods, but if they're aimed correctly (so you're not blinding everyone you come upon) I can't see where the authorities would have an issue. I know there are folks back here in Central Pennsylvania running them on older imports without issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 CF I will assume you mean true HID "High Intensity Discharge" The ones requiring a ballast and other parts? NOT the cheesy so called "HID lamps" people think are way kewl?? The real ones do throw a lot of light and must be reflectored and aimed properly for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 You cant just throw them in any old lense/headlamp. The reflectors are designed to properly scatter the loght with the proper pattern. If you dont have a preperly engineered reflector, they are just a waste of money. You are better off getting a set of aftermarket accessory lights. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 CF you say "I have the proper housings now." Care to elaborate on this? Manufacturer, model, link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 ive seen the results of a few different retrofit kits, and none had to replace the lense assmebly or moddify it. and the light output isnt messed up at all. as long as you get the right bulbs and have the lgihts aimed properly, you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 ive seen the results of a few different retrofit kits, and none had to replace the lense assmebly or moddify it. and the light output isnt messed up at all. as long as you get the right bulbs and have the lgihts aimed properly, you will be fine. Any kit can look good in dry conditions, have you seen them in the rain. I've yet to see any kit that is decent in the rain (and alot of aftermarket bulbs fail in this area too, like anything blue). Also depending upon how sharp your state inspectors are, technically they are illegal nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 "the results of a few different retrofit kits" show me these "kits" "none had to replace the lense" The reflector assembly is more important but the lens does play a roll in some circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Show me a good kit and ill be a path to thier door. I have been looking, so I am not picking on anyone, just my professional experience has yet to convince me that they are any good in all weather conditions. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 "Show me a good kit" I'll add "at a somewhat reasonable price..." A good set of Hellas aimed properly and wired properly. Do me just fine for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 "Show me a good kit" I'll add "at a somewhat reasonable price..." A good set of Hellas aimed properly and wired properly. Do me just fine for now. Ditto. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Galen, You've opened a huge can of worms... and just like Suberdave before you, you will probably regret it. But, its ok... I'm going to take a moment and try and speak on behalf of all of us, the few that don't mind bending the rules. First, lets talk terminology. HID KIT usually refers to a setup of the required ballast, wiring, and rebased HID bulbs for use in 9004, 9007, H4, H1, etc... lights. HID RETROFIT usually refers to taking OEM HID components (projector housing, ballast, D2 HID bulb) and fitting in another headlight... such as the EA82 composite head lights. OEM HID headlights use a projector housing (such as this acura TSX http://faqlight.carpassion.info/images/2003-acura-tsx-projector-sizes.jpg) to accurately aim the light, and give a crisp cutoff line (good example of a cutoff http://www.haknslash.com/pictures/HID/fritenitesretro/P1010004.JPG) OEM HID's can appear to "flash" people ahead of you, or oncoming traffic as the sharp cutoff line moves around when the car goes over bumps and such in the road. A lot of people are annoyed by this, and assume that they are not factory lights... when in fact they are! Some manufactures have started to put in leveling and stabilization systems to try and stop this. HID bulbs come in different temperatures. The temp indicates the color and brightness of the light. Temps vary from place to place, but commonly they are 4300k, 6000k, 8000k, 1000k, 12000k, and 2500k. 4300K and 6000K are the typical OEM temps. 4300K is pretty white, 6000K is white with a slight hint of blue. 8000K+ are way blue... 2500K is purple. Now... The best way to put HID's on your ride is to do a HID RETROFIT. However, you are looking at quite a large amount of money, perhaps more than your car was bought for. WRX people usually spend around ~$1000 for a quality setup. http://lightwerkz.net/ is a good company that does these retrofits. The typical way all of us are going to get the HID lights in our cars is to use an HID KIT. The HID kit is exactly like putting a very high powered bulb (80w/100w +) into your headlight. HID setups come with some different options... either 35w or 55w ballasts (35w is the common one). You can also get "Bi-Xenon" bulbs which move the bulb in the housing to replicate the affect of having a dual filament bulb (like a stock 9004). Running this kind of HID setup will yeild less light output than an OEM installation, but it is still a dramatic improvement over even Silverstar light bulbs. Personally, I run 2 HID KITS in 2 different vehicles. My Ultimate RX has a 9004 "Bi-Xenon" setup from http://stores.ebay.com/THE-KING-OF-HID . The Bi-Xenon system works by retracting the bulb into the base for normal operation, and letting fulling extend for HI beam operation. It thus imitates the location of the 2 filaments in a standard bulb. This setup is daily driven, and has given me no problems. I adjusted my lights down from where they were approximately a turn of the screw. I use the 6000k temp bulbs, for a nice OEM, yet slightly blue light. My wife car (2.5rs GC) runs bulbs by the above retailer w/ ballasts I picked up used locally. Her setup is a bit more unique... We traded her stock headlamps for some dual bulb Morette headlamps which have a H4 Hi/Low and a second H1 Hi bulb. I then traded out the sealed be H4's for some Hella H4 conversion lamps. In those we are running 6000K bulbs. Both configurations yield quite a bit of nice usable light, that is very relaxing on the eyes to drive with at night. Neither have had a problem with compaints of being too bright or blinding oncoming drivers. As with any light upgrade, you need to take care to aim them properly. For those that still have the need to hate, pay attention to the cars that have the lights that offend you, and make sure you aren't being "flashed" by some OEM HID's... 9/10 people this ends up being the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeakingOil Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I have a 5000K kit in my SVX I got from http://www.svxfiles.com/hids.html I personally love them. They are super bright, but with some fine tuning I stopped getting flashed. Before my lights were so-so and driving through the country was a pain due to the deer being everywhere,but now I can see them before they get on top of me. I plan on doing it to my XT6 and my 3 Door later on if possible. Smiles, Melis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 subarutex, do you have any pics of your set ups? how bad was the wiring for your rx? also, for anyone with an older suby, like say, a brat, have you found any light fixtures that allow interchangeable bulbs? i really want to get hid in my brat when i get it on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 subarutex,do you have any pics of your set ups? how bad was the wiring for your rx? also, for anyone with an older suby, like say, a brat, have you found any light fixtures that allow interchangeable bulbs? i really want to get hid in my brat when i get it on the road. I don't have any pics of my setup... I'll work on remeding that. The wiring for my setup was easy! Since it was a BiXenon kit, it came with its own relay setup... so I basically connected it to power, ground, one of my old headlight plugs to act as the switch... and BOOM! Hi/Lo lights! However, my one complaint with Subaru's negative switched headlight system is that my car thinks its in Hi beams for the HID setup to be on regular, and vice versa. This is do to the kit being designed to work with a postive switched system, verses a negative switched. I plan on fixing this when I get some free time... hopefully. The wiring on my wife's car has been a bigger pain, mainly cause i've had to build the harness from scratch, using my own relays and such. Again, the negative switched headlights really get me all turned around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Most of that is acedemic for Carfreak though - if he's speaking about his EA81 turbo wagon, then he has sealed beams. That means new enclosures and I'm sure someone makes them that are designed for HID's. Putting HID inside existing headlight housings not designed for it are one thing..... but entirely not applicable to his situation. I see no problems with running properly designed HID's if the projector housings are used and aimed properly. It should be no different than OEM except of course there won't be a suspension connected leveling system for them. But a lot of early OEM HID's didn't have leveling anyway. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Actually, I was going to throw them in these::cool: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=74588&highlight=headlight I have the stupid blue bulbs that came with the housings, but I wouldn't have if they weren't included in the kit. I want the ballast ignited bulbs that use arcing electricity instead of filaments, clear? I understand that putting HIDs in halogen housings is less than ideal and is more likely than not illegal where I live, but I was wondering if there was enough improvement to make it worth while on my car. Lets be honest, most cars more than ten-or-so years old could use better lights. Tex, I think you answered my question with a "yes, you will notice an improvement in lighting," would you agree? GD, I will look for HID ready housings in this size, but I'd be suprised if I can find them at all, or for reasonable money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Most of that is acedemic for Carfreak though - if he's speaking about his EA81 turbo wagon, then he has sealed beams. That means new enclosures and I'm sure someone makes them that are designed for HID's. Putting HID inside existing headlight housings not designed for it are one thing..... but entirely not applicable to his situation. I see no problems with running properly designed HID's if the projector housings are used and aimed properly. It should be no different than OEM except of course there won't be a suspension connected leveling system for them. But a lot of early OEM HID's didn't have leveling anyway. GD Read. Comprehend. Post. Carfreak... The light output will indeed be better, I'd say dramatically. You will enjoy them, and be the envy of your friends. Also, for those with deep pockets, i found these: http://www.suvlights.com/product_info.php?products_id=268&osCsid=c5f9202df362e797702228fe042b724b Not as bad of a price as I was expecting... Maybe if my brat ever gets back on the road I'll do something like this. Unfortunately, the nifty composite lamps the EA82's have make real projector HID's a $$$ DIY experiment. Speaking of my brat... When you are serious about making some duplicates of the Kamei lip, lets talk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Also, for those with deep pockets, i found these: http://www.suvlights.com/product_info.php?products_id=268&osCsid=c5f9202df362e797702228fe042b724b Speaking of my brat... When you are serious about making some duplicates of the Kamei lip, lets talk! that kit os morethan i paid for my brat, i bet it puts out some nice lighting though. what is this kamei lip you speak of? i like the sound of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djbroadus Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 They no longer make that Xenarc kit, I talked to them a long time ago no deals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joostvdw Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I have one thing to add to this discussion, Don't put a HID kit into old halogen lenses, these old lenses diffract the high intensity light too much and WILL blind oncoming traffic, even when they are aimed to the ground (!) Only use clear lenses with a proper reflector as a base for the HID kits. In the Netherlands (and I believe actually in all of europe) factory HID equipped cars must ignite them facing downwards (ignition on HID is a lot brighter than normal operation) to avoid blinding oncoming traffic. That's one of the reasons aftermarket HID kits are illegal, and I think that's a good thing. The roads here a lit enough to almost not need headlights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I have one thing to add to this discussion, Don't put a HID kit into old halogen lenses, these old lenses diffract the high intensity light too much and WILL blind oncoming traffic, even when they are aimed to the ground (!) Only use clear lenses with a proper reflector as a base for the HID kits. In the Netherlands (and I believe actually in all of europe) factory HID equipped cars must ignite them facing downwards (ignition on HID is a lot brighter than normal operation) to avoid blinding oncoming traffic. That's one of the reasons aftermarket HID kits are illegal, and I think that's a good thing. The roads here a lit enough to almost not need headlights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Virrdog, that is an excellent link! Too bad these "kit guys" will not take the time to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 There is also that little detail that they are illegal in the USA http://www.dot.gov/affairs/nhtsa4304.htm NHTSA 43-04 Contact: Rae Tyson, Telephone: (202) 366-9550 Tuesday, October 19, 2004 NHTSA ILLEGAL LIGHTING CRACKDOWN CONTINUES Continuing its crackdown against manufacturers and suppliers of illegal lighting equipment, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) today announced its decision that high intensity discharge (HID) conversion kits produced by a Texas company do not comply with federal safety standards. The owner of ASTEX USA, a supplier of aftermarket HID kits, was ordered to conduct a recall campaign and provide a no-cost solution to the customer. The company is based in Dayton, TX. When installed in a motor vehicle, the HID kits “can be expected to produce excessive glare to oncoming motorists and others,” NHTSA said in its decision. To date, NHTSA has investigated 24 HID conversion kit suppliers; all investigations have resulted in recalls or termination of sales. “These illegal lights are a potential hazard to those who share the road,” said NHTSA Administrator Jeffrey Runge, MD. “And we will continue to pursue those offering them for sale and violating the law.” Companies that sell, import or manufacture non-compliant equipment could face substantial civil penalties, NHTSA said. To date, NHTSA has investigated 24 HID conversion kit suppliers; all investigations have resulted in recalls or termination of sales. RM Racing Astex USA Kmax International FET, Inc. J. Liu LLC Gourmet Garage JC Whitney Lighting Research SPW Industries, Inc. Pacific Micro-lite McCulloch Motors, Inc. Santeca Electronics JF Manufacturing Streetglow, Inc. Outback Products, Inc. Nu Performance GR Motorsports, Inc. Global Premier New Clor Importhookup.com DG International MTC Lighting Umnitza Liteglow American Products Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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