slideshow86 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Ok I have been hesitating to post because I really wanted to figure it out on my own. But Its still there and may just be the car eh? I did a few searches and it seems people are only having this issue w/ aftermarket turbos and IC? I really need help on MY application and feel the searches didnt really help that much. I dont really know much about these engines so here goes. I swapped the eng out about a year ago and havent had any issues. I used a newer turbo w/ perfect impelars and zero shaft play. Swapped out the timing belts and re gasketed the eng before I dropped it in. Along w/ plugs, wires, cap rotor, t-stat, water pump, ect. Ive got an aftermarket cone filter, 2 1/4 mandrel bent down tube and custom 2 1/4 all the way back w/ no cat or resonator. Nothing has been done to the up pipe. I have a boost guage and turbo timer for reliability. I am still running stock boost. I have a wrx intercooler that I am still mocking up piping for and before I raise boost to 1 bar I want to make sure the air is cooler first. I am also on a 3in lift w/ 27" tires. Ok to start w/ the symptoms. With timing set to 22deg BFTDC -When out of gear it revs very cleanly, at WOT all the way to red line. -First and second gear rev cleanly at WOT all the way to redline. -3rd, 4th and 5th will not let me go over 1/2 to 3/4 throttle with out feeling weird? (this is what im trying to explain/fix) -When in 3rd and 4th at WOT it FEELS LIKE (dont know if it actually is) it is boosting up to 7psi and then just dumping the rest of boosted air out the waste gate? -Even though I am at half throttle, I have plenty more pedal to give it but it will not accelerate past the point the guage reaches 7psi. -If I just hold the pedal down at 7psi it feels weird and doesnt fell like its still pullilng any more rpm's? -5th gear is too high a gear to really do anything but pull up slight hills and just fine on flat ground. The car runs great, It just seems like it really has an opportunity to run alot better. I feel like Ive done everything right, I just may be missing somthing. Thanks alot Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 sounds like a fuel issue or lack there of a car as nice as this deserves an A/F meter. possibilities fuel filter, fuel pump, FPR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hi, Let me get this straight. You don't have the boost gage hooked up. You're running a 5 speed single range transmission. On 27 inch tires. I wouldldn't expect 5th gear to be of much use at times. Hook up the gage. I suspect an issue in the fuel system too. Just trying to understand. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 just a shot in the dark but try cleaning the MAF. sometimnes they can be out of whack and not throw a code. or try swapping in another one. and make sure all the connecotors are clean, as this causes problems with things like the engine temp sensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Hi, Let me get this straight. You don't have the boost gage hooked up. You're running a 5 speed single range transmission. On 27 inch tires. I wouldldn't expect 5th gear to be of much use at times. Hook up the gage. I suspect an issue in the fuel system too. Just trying to understand. Doug Im not sure where I said the boost guage wasnt hooked up. And its on a dual range trans. A/f meter is in the near future.... Was at the junkyard all day. Will check these and get back to you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Ok So yesterday when we were putting timing belts on the free gl-10 sedan we got. I was looking at the book and decided to check the timing on my wagon. It was at about 20deg BFTDC and I had a piece of paper in there that said correct timing is 22deg BFTDC so I bumped it to 22deg. It seems to boost slower and let me use more of my throttle. Seems to boost alot smoother too. As well as reving cleaner. I cant believe 2deg made that much diff? What is the correct timing for EA82t? Thanks Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 87+ EA82T is 20btdc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Having cam timing off a tooth will also give similar symptoms to this... Also check firing order, and fuel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Also, if you can, throw on some stock-sized tires and see if it still feels wacky. The oversized tires might be "sapping" some of the torque in higher gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 87+ EA82T is 20btdc What is timing for 86? -UPDATE- Yesterday my car did somthing really weird. I was driving along, just got off the freeway and I made it back up to 3rd gear and while in the throttle it like stopped giving the eng fuel, the front end dove down, but was still idling/running, all electrical is still on. Just as I let off the gas I went back on and BRRRRAAA Going again? Its like it would do it intermittently and only over half throttle. Like a bad connection at the TPS or faulty TPS or fuel pump or somthing? I thought maybe I got bad gas? I stopped at a Chevron and topped it off. It seemed ok? When I got home, thats when I messed w/ the timing. All my test runs were great. But I dont know the relevance of me driving it for 30mins prior to symptoms? When I would change/check somthing then test drive. It never did it. But when I started it up when freezing outside. It seemed to run fine? Could it be bad gas? Doensnt affect starting or idling. Been checking a few things. It was cold out when It first started happening but thismorning it was freezing and I made it all the way to work w/ no issues. It did it just before I got home. It wasnt near as bad but it still did it 2 or 3 times. Checked all my trouble codes, thinking a faulty tps circuit would be there but im only throwing a 12, which is starter circuit off. Soo stumped? Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 What is timing for 86? 25 btdc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Ok so Ive heard that im supossed to run any where from 20 to 25 BFTDC 25 BFTDC is the CORRECT timing? I mean at 7000+ posts im sure your right. Im at 24 now. It bounces around alot. Is it crutial to get right inbetween 24 and 26? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 You are checking the timing with the check connectors connected, correct? I'm assuming so since you have a book... And if your car has a vacuum advance it needs to be disconnected. (Not positive, but I think 85 and 86 have a vacuum advance, 87-90 are electronic. Makes sense since I have an 86 that has a vacuum advance, and my 87 does not.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Ok so Ive heard that im supossed to run any where from 20 to 25 BFTDC 25 BFTDC is the CORRECT timing? I mean at 7000+ posts im sure your right. Im at 24 now. It bounces around alot. Is it crutial to get right inbetween 24 and 26? Nope - 7000+ and I'm not sure. But my factory service manuals seem pretty confident about it. Are you timing according to the recommended procedure or just throwing a light on it and hoping for the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 I was too tired. It was at 22 BTDC i switched it to 24 BTDC Ive read 2 different ways to time it. First was to plug green connector at normal operating temp and 800rpm's and shoot time. Second was to disconnect the knock thing up by the mass air flow sensor and disconnect/plug the vacume advance, at 800rpm's I searched for awhile and found really brief instructions somewhere else mentioning the knock thing. The one I unplugged didnt have an 8 pin connector. Both ways gave me 24 BTDC. Im thinking timing isnt my issue? -UPDATE- Cleaned mass airflow sensor, checked and re-dielectric greased, tps, mass airflow plug, coolant temp sensor and checked ecu codes. No codes thrown? Didnt do anythig driving around town. Will find out if it changed anyting on the way home from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Taken from ny '86 FSM. Checking ignition timing Before adjusting ignition timing, disconnect the vacuum hose(s) of advancer from the distributor to stop the vacuum advance function of the distributor, and, while checking ignition timing, plug the end of the vacuum hose(s) with small rod. (Except SPFI) For TURBO models disconnect the black connector (8 pole connector) between distributor and knock control unit. Connect the timing light to the #1 plug wire, adjust engine idle speed and illuminate timing marks. For an '86 turbo car, it must be one of the following Manual transmission - 25 degrees BTDC@700rpm Automatic transmission - 25 degrees BTDC@800rpm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 this a flapper AFM motor, or a hotwire MAF? Do the flapper AFM systems come with a potentiometer-style Throttle Position Sensor, or a bi-switch type Throttle Position Switch? Two kinds of TPS: one is a "volume knob" of sorts attached to the throttle shaft, the older type is simply two switches integrated together; one "switch" is closed at zero to low throttle, and indicates "idle" mode; the other switch is at 75%-full throttle, indicates WOT mode, and no signal indicates "cruising" mode. If the 86 system has the switch-type, then it sounds very suspiciously like an intermittently shorting TPS, and I would replace it to rule it out as a possibility. The failure mode for a potentiometer-style sensor is not QUITE as black-and-white as what you described; its more like a staticky volume knob on an old stereo. Zero EA82T experience here, just trying to brainstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 Taken from ny '86 FSM.Checking ignition timing Before adjusting ignition timing, disconnect the vacuum hose(s) of advancer from the distributor to stop the vacuum advance function of the distributor, and, while checking ignition timing, plug the end of the vacuum hose(s) with small rod. (Except SPFI) For TURBO models disconnect the black connector (8 pole connector) between distributor and knock control unit. Connect the timing light to the #1 plug wire, adjust engine idle speed and illuminate timing marks. For an '86 turbo car, it must be one of the following Manual transmission - 25 degrees BTDC@700rpm Automatic transmission - 25 degrees BTDC@800rpm Where is the black connector between the dizzy and knock sensor? I havent looked for it but ill go look. This is all done w/o any green connector plugged in right? Can I adjust my idle when im done timing? I dont like idling that low. What do you guys run your idle at? Oh also. It did this one time a year ago. Almost all stock, I was trailering about 1500lbs from here to florance OR. It was a long haul. There were WAY more hills then expected and was in the boost much more then I would have prefered. I had to slow down to not hold it in the boost for LOONG periods of time. I started at 4-5lbs of boost and slowly worked my way down. When I was almost there, It did this exact same thing. Going up hill I thought I was done for. But getting out of the boost got me there. ( like 3 mi, ) It barely chugged in. I just chilled out and didnt drive it for 2 days. Fired it up and she drove the same till last week? It seems to be boost related? It wont do it boosting on the way to work at 20 +/- temps outside. Boosting freely. But on the way home at about 35-40ish degrees out, It will do it ONLY if boosting for a decent period of time? Other than that, It wont do it? Any ideas? Thanks again Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 If you have SPFI, then its not turbo. All turbo'd cars have the MPFI whereas my '87 coupe has SPFI (and is kinda gutless cause of no boost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Where is the black connector between the dizzy and knock sensor? I havent looked for it but ill go look. This is all done w/o any green connector plugged in right? Can I adjust my idle when im done timing? I dont like idling that low. What do you guys run your idle at? Jess The connector is on the passenger side. In the area under the intake boot. You may want to follow the wires from the disty, along the back of the manifold, over to the connector. Check that the loom is not too close to the turbo, or it could get melted. Idle adjustment should be done first. There is a large screw in a recessed area, on the back corner of the throttle body. Look straight down at it and you'll see it. DON"T ADJUST THE THROTTLE SHAFT STOP SCREW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Ive know where my idle is for along time. I dont like leaving it at 700 its just too low for me. I followed it from the dizzy to the plug but mine has 7 wires? Im sure its the same plug. Ill check/ change that along with the o2 sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Ive know where my idle is for along time. I dont like leaving it at 700 its just too low for me. I followed it from the dizzy to the plug but mine has 7 wires? Im sure its the same plug. Ill check/ change that along with the o2 sensor. So you like using more gas at idle????? I don't get it. But hey, you're car. Good to know you are using the correct screw for idle adjustment. IMO, Correct idle for Manuals is 800 7 wires, but I think it is an 8 pin connector, 1 unused. At any rate that is the one. I've seen that harness get cooked from the turbo before, check it thoroughly for damage, and relocate/shield it as nessecary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideshow86 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 So you like using more gas at idle????? I don't get it. But hey, you're car. Good to know you are using the correct screw for idle adjustment. IMO, Correct idle for Manuals is 800 7 wires, but I think it is an 8 pin connector, 1 unused. At any rate that is the one. I've seen that harness get cooked from the turbo before, check it thoroughly for damage, and relocate/shield it as nessecary Well its just that I like 1000 rpms better because I have solid trans mounts and it vibrates a lot, plus rpm's drop a lot when idling at close the the alternators max load? When set to 1K and running all my acc. at idle I'm at 800. If I were at 800, I would be at 600 w/ all my acc on. The harness was re routed when I put in the eng origionally, it looked to close for comfort. Thanks Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I know this is a bit out of date, but if you're still having the problem, you might want to replace the fuel filter. Being under boost means that the fuel system is flowing more, and a clogged filter can restrict that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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