Forester or OBW

[Mugs]

I will make along story short. A: I always wanted the OBW but could never fine the funding for one. So I settled on a 96 Leg WGN L. My problem not enough ground clearnce fo what I do. (need it to get up into trail heads along BLM roads and forest roads for back packing) I can get into most places but an extra 3 in of ground clearnce would help out alot. So I was thinking no problem get some 96-2000 OB complete strut assemblies from the local bone yard, and som stock 15 or 16 in rims and throw some rubber on them, install the struts asms, badda boom, badda bing, I am good to go. Then I was thinking why don't I do some work on the motor as well, maybe turbo it, different exhaust etc etc. But then it hit me.

With all the money I am going to put into this car (est $1500-2000+) why don't I just sell the car and take the money I was going to use and add it to the sale price and get something I really want.

 

Which is a Forester. I am thinking I can get into the 98-2000 range or maybe a little higher with the money I would have. So I started doing some research and talking to a few Foerster freinds and they all say pretty much the same thing. Nice car...crappy gas mileage. But then I found this Forester Forum and they gave me some hope. I enjoy my 25/28mpg and know that I could get the same out of an OBW.

 

The reasons I want a Forester: I like the body style, I love the clearnce, I want the Turbo motor. I like the cargo room, I just like it better than the other Suubs (save for the Baja). There is just something about it that appeals to me. Reasons I am thinking I would not want one. GAS MPG !!!! and They are a bit under powered from what I understand.

The Outback Wagon issue. I would take one if it is the same height or maybe a scootch less, just because I can get the same MPG as my Leg wagon. But that is about the only reason...per se.

I tried finding some sites that give statistical information on heights, length, engines, etc, etc, but too no avail.

 

So I request from you all your opinions, experiances, ideas, thoughts on the matters etc, etc.

 

Now if I can figure out why my car poped P0420 last night. Couldn't be form the 1.5 ft pf snow that we got last night and is completly caked around the cat. Cleared codes, unpacked snow, ckecked wiring, seems to be running ok, no engine light yet. Will keep posted.

[98obster]

1) make the legacy as attractive as possible to sell it.

2) find and buy the car you want-Forester

 

Foresters (Impreza based) are the tallest Subaru-that's why I put 2000 Forester strut/springs on my 98 OBS:

 

 

I don't know about lifting legacies-sounds like you've done some homework though. I guess you have to decide where you want to put your money- put it into a '96 legacy that after you mod, lift, etc. you may not be able to get your investment back (it's yours till it dies basically) or sell the legacy now while you can (assuming it's in good shape and the engine/drivetrain is basically tight) and find your Forester. see http://www.cars101.com to see which Forester (2001) you want.

 

For off road-I think the auto trans does a better job

 

I think the decision is easier if you are looking at a Forester right now that you might want-do you have to sell your Lego first before you buy?

 

Basically, save your money to get the platform you want and then you can go to town on that. I don't think lifting a Legacy will be equal to Forester and may be more costly than your down payment etc.

 

just some thoughts but it's always good to be grateful for what you have now. Perhaps your struts/springs are tired and just getting s newer used stock set would help. I also applaud your willingness to keep your Legacy and make it work but if you want a Forester then by all means get one-if you want great gas mileage get a honda civic.

[wtdash]

Hi...I'm in Coeur d'Alene.....I have a '90 Legacy L wagon I lifted w/OB struts and tires.

 

The '98-2000 Forester is another great Sube, but w/the Phase I('98), II('99-00) EJ25 it loses some points.

 

The Forester XT w/a turbo didn't arrive 'til '04, I believe. If you plan to ADD a turbo to the EJ25 you'll have a bunch of work ahead. If your fellow Forester owners have experience modding the engine that will help a lot.

 

As far as MPG, the OBW and Forester should be very similar:

Forester EPA economy:

Manual - 21 city / 28 highway

Automatic - 22 city / 27 highway Automatic

 

Which isn't too far from your Legacy L....and I think it's more based on how you drive it and keep it maintained and tuned up.

 

If a lift is more important than power then putting OB or Forester struts on your '96 is an easy option (everything I've read says they'll both fit your Legacy - up to '99 from an OB and up to '04 from a Forester). Used struts should run about $250 shipped (I used car-part.com-Spaldings wanted $75 each), and a set of 15'' 205/70R-15 (stock OB and Forester tire size) should be avl. on Craigslist....if you're not in a hurry.

 

Have Fun!

[subaru360]

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the forrester xt turbo lower than a standard forrester? You said you want more ground clearance so that might not work out too well.

 

Outback struts on a legacy is a quick easy swap. It will give you actually more ground clearance than an outback since the drivetrain isn't dropped, but slightly worse cv angles, although nobody has had a problem with that so far.

 

I wouldn't get involved in putting a turbo on a non-turbo EJ. It's been done and it's worked but at what cost and how reliable is it? I would do it right and go with a complete wrx swap engine harness etc.

[johnceggleston]

i think you are going to find that outback people recommed outbacks and forester people foresters.

 

the cheapest way to get there is to put outback struts on your legacy. you'll get more ground clearence for the body, at least .75 inches. i'm not sure how much exactly. by putting larger tires on, (195/80/14) on your 14" wheels (or buying outback wheels and tires) you will gain another .75 inches of ground clearence.

 

depending on money, do the struts now, and tires when you need them. if hiking is seasonal, get used whells and tires and run the larger ones during hiking season, the smaller ones the rest of the time. this will allow you to get your moneys worth out of them.

 

but as mentioned above, drive the car you want. if you like the forester, work towards that. if you ccan spring for struts now, but nothing else , do that and make the transition in stages.

 

i think outback struts cost about 80-90$ each, used are about half that, plus labor, plus tires, plus .....

[nixon]

If I may add my tuppence worth...

I presently have a MY2000 Forester S-turbo, a '98 Foz 2.0 GLS, and an '00 Outback. The Forester is the better car, hands-down! The only drawback is that it is brick shaped, so on the highway you will get worse gas mileage.

The outback is bigger, but only in the boot (trunk). However, in the OB , I can fit a 3.02 meter length of timber, between the passenger footwell and the top of the bootlid. In the Foz, I can fit a 3.05 m length! Legroom is "slightly " better in the rear of the OB, but I have problems squeezing past the steering wheel in the OB. I'm 6'1" and real skinny!

For this age of vehicle, the Foz is a newer design, and it shows. There are storage trays and cubbies everywhere. They're sadly missing in the OB.

The seats in the Foz are THE most comfy I've ever sat in on long journeys, and the single giant sunroof beats the two tiddlers in the OB.

The Forester cabin is just a nicer place to be.

Also, if you want to mod the Forester, you'll be in heaven. Generally, if it will fit an Impreza, it will fit the Foz. OB stuff is harder to find.

Oh , and the XT, at least in the UK , has the same ground clearance as the non turbo.

Either are great cars, though.

Cheers, Nick

[Gloyale]

Get some OB struts

(you'll have to use you're original Spring and tops in the rear)

 

And then put 27x8.50s on you're 14in rims.

 

Or get a used set of 15s or 16 from an outback or Forester.

 

 

This will cost WAAAAAYYYYYYY less than a Forester XT.

[keltik]

If youve got 6ft tall kids that will be banished to the back seats - please buy an outback. All of the foresters ive sat in have been really nice for the driver but hell for anyone in the rear seats. Then again - i am freakishly long.

 

As for the site with dimensions and the like - i love this place:

http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/subaru/

 

Only problem is - its all relevant to JDM cars (perfect for me) but i dont know how well it will translate for USDM vehicles. I would think the ground clearances and turning circles etc. would be the same.

 

My pick would be the OutBack because i love the shape and boot space....and because its available with a EJ25 turbo here.

 

Edit: Having just read through the info on the Lancaster (Outback) models, its not as detailed as for the Forester or Legacy. More good stuff i found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Outback

[idosubaru]

given the same engines (EJ25 in OBS and Forester, assuming you get NA and not the turbo) i don't think the gas mileages will be much different...assuming the Forester you get is well maintained and such.

 

there may be a small difference head to head...but if you lift the Legacy that may make up most of the small difference.

[screwbaru2]

I've got a similar issue with my leg. I've been driving an OB for 4 years got used to the height. I'm going to change the struts for ob struts and put the ob's 15 tires on it. Something to consider.

[Mugs]

Thank you all for your great advice. Because of the numerous responses I can't answer every question individually, but will just hit some of the highlights. First I would be putting OB strut assemblies and struts (from the bone yard) on the Leg, in theory this should raise it about 4.5in or so from what I have read within this forum in the mods section. Next would come 15 or 16 in sooby rims with light truck tires or some meaty all seasons (in addition I plan on getting some steal stockers of the same size and putting snow tires on them to swap them out in the winter for all of my winter driving escapades.) I go backpacking year yound so the clerance is needed year round. Because if it isn't the mountains its the snow so either way I need clearance.

 

Yes I have or at least/are really close to, and will be there by next year...6.0 boys I am 6.1 200lbs myself.

 

Another item that I have find interesting is, yes in theory the OB and FSTR should get about the same MPG but in reality I have seen, read, heard that they (FSTR) get way less.

 

I don't think I could afford the 04 xt so I will rule that one out. I was thinking more along the lines of 98-2000 any way. So this is the info I am requestign/requiring form you all out there in sooby land. But of course would want to do some mods to it...hey if it can't be modifies it aint worth buyin'

 

Yes I would have to sell the Leg and combine it with the saved money for mods and add it, in order to purchase a FSTR and then go form there.

 

I think what I need to do (once spring arrives I.E. income taxt return time) is see what I have for funding and what it is I want to do and go from there. But that still does not take away the fact the I am trying to turn my Leg into a OB or FSTR (more like the first instead of the latter).

 

So the nest question would be (if I stick with the Leg) how/what can I do to add some extra pep into the 2.2 motor that I have. W/O having to turbo it. I know there is alot of stuff out there you can do, just don't know where to find it. I have been trying to figure out a way to make an cold air intake but that stupid MAF grid is mounted in the wrong spot and is the wrong shape to just be able to include into a home made air pipe. Basically I would just like to have some more pep and some more clearance, thats all I am really asking. But I still do really like the Forester. Ahh descions, descions.

[johnceggleston]

Next would come 15 or 16 in sooby rims with light truck tires or some meaty all seasons

 

how/what can I do to add some extra pep into the 2.2 motor that I have.

i can't tell you how to pep up your motor, but if you put larger tires on your 2.2L you will loose some of the pep you already have. it may not be enoiugh to notice, but you'll be going the wrong direction. i would do the struts first and then look at tires. larger tires(outback) on the legacy 4.11 final drive is going to be different than outback tires and outback final drive(4.44). besides, the tires only add 3/4 inch.

 

FYI, the 97 GT has legacy tires and struts with the outback final drive, (the opposite of your future setup) this and it's TCU and 2.5L, tends to make it peppier.

[mcbrat]

you can also add height by putting the King Springs lift springs on the outback struts first....

 

for engine performance upgrades, maybe look at the Perfect Power piggyback ECU. I've heard it added pep along with better mileage.....

[idosubaru]

dropping in an EJ25 engine would give you about 20hp and head gasket issues but they are expensive. with CCR you could get a newly rebuilt one though with a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty. a good tune up - new Subaru or Magnecor wires, and having the valves adjusted might bring back some power that's been lost. not sure if the 96 has adjustable valves or not.

 

modifying a non-turbo engine is a long road with very little return, few...if any, are ever satisfied with it. "i think it's better"... "wait, wait, i know it is"..."it's still slow"...is how it usually goes. large off road tires and lift will slow you down. modifications that gain you significant HP also push the power band higher and loose low end. not sure what kind of driving you do but with the lift, tires, and moving your power band higher you could have some really slow acceleration from a stop. that was really annoying to me when i had to downshift all the time going up mountains/hills while highway driving.

 

if you're waiting for tax returns to do modifications then i think you're headed the right direction keeping the legacy. overextending yourself is not necessary when you have a good vehicle already. hopefully some extra into the motor/lifting will get you what you need.

[Mugs]

i would do the struts first and then look at tires. larger tires(outback) on the legacy 4.11 final drive is going to be different than outback tires and outback final drive(4.44). besides, the tires only add 3/4 inch.

 

FYI, the 97 GT has legacy tires and struts with the outback final drive, (the opposite of your future setup) this and it's TCU and 2.5L, tends to make it peppier.

 

I guess I didn't make myself very clear on the the tire issue. What I ment by bigger tires is 15/16in rims with apropriate size tires on them. I.E. My tires are now something like 195/75/14 so if I was to put 16's on I would then put on 205/55/16 etc, etc. That way it does not throw off the speedo and keeps the over all wheel diameter the same. Pus with a lower side wall I have less tire flex which equates to better cornering.

[wtdash]

If you do put the 205/55R16s on after the lift, you won't fill up the wheel wells....if it matters.

 

I lifted my '90 Legacy and just bought some WRX rims w/a set of 205/55R16s. I'm going to sell the tires and get 1-2 or sizes bigger, as I personally don't like the look of all the extra space. But the shorter tire will help w/acceleration.

 

My 205/70R15 studded snows fit tight, and do lightly rub @ full steering lock - something I can live with.

 

Regarding power...CAI are questionable and may screw up your MAF, from what I read, and don't use the oil-covered filters as they deposit a film on the MAF and cause issues. Lightweight (but not underdriven = smaller) pulleys may help.

[Gloyale]

My buddy george has the same setup you are talking bout.

 

91 Legacy 2.2 MT

 

Outback struts and spring front

 

Outback strut with stock Legacy spring rear

 

205/75/15 traction tires (still a tight fit, but works, rubbs a hair on the front bumper in depresed turns) Might go to a 70 series instead of 75.

 

Still had good power when we did the lift, but the bigger tires must have hammered the death blow to the Headgaskets. They blew about 3 week after intalling the tires @199k miles

 

Surfaced the heads. Removed, cleaned and resealed all valves. Cleaned all the pistons to shiny, no carbon. Now the engine runs smooth as butter. Feels like it's making at least 5 horse more.

 

So be aware that added strain of big tires may not be good for a weak motor. But it is a good opportunity to do a "refresh" on the engine, change clutch at the same time.

[Mugs]

I bought mine with a "blown motor" that had 120k on it. I replaced it with a motor (2.2) that only had 96k on it and about 170-180 compression in the cyls. At that time I replaced the t-belt & h2o pump along with the rear main. And of course the misc stullf like plugs, wires, fuel filter, belts etc. so as far as engine it should do ok.

 

How far off will the speedo be with the bigger tires like the 70 series? I agree a big wheel well gap looks ugly.

 

Oh yea my car is a 4 spd auto. I like sticks but I do to much city driving to always want to be shifting. Guess I am getting old.

 

I may make my next car a stick (if it comes with it) but I am not realy partial to either. Well ok, I like auto's better. Unless its a racer then stick all the way. but for a daily I just like to get in and go.

[johnceggleston]

How far off will the speedo be with the bigger tires like the 70 series? I agree a big wheel well gap looks ugly.

 

this is a great tire comparison calculator.

 

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

[wtdash]

How far off will the speedo be with the bigger tires like the 70 series? I agree a big wheel well gap looks ugly.

 

 

The link 'johnc' supplied is a good one.

 

From my experience, my speed wasn't off by much, if @ all.......using my buddy's GPS, the MPH shown on the GPS matched my speedometer. 'Though I don't know how accurate GPS' are 'sposed to be.

 

If the GPS was correct it's a letdown, as I thought I was getting better MPG since my bigger tires should be off by about 8%.

 

But as my car is a '90 Legacy, it could use a different VSS.