Jeepman775 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 EA wagon that is.... Anyone done this yet??? I have looked for like two days. By the way Hi guys haven't seen ya since I got rid of my hatch, like a year ago. I have a while to prepare this swap, I AM going to do it, and hoping to get all information partaining to this swap that you guys know..... Things like six speed tranny with DCCD length versus standard wrx tranny... alterations to suspension... axle differences.. anything of that nature. I want to do a full write up, as well as compile into one thread all the knowledge spread through out this forum about WRX/ STI motor/ drivetrain swaps, as it is maddening to run about the entire site to try to track down this info. All you guys know so much, but all this is spread through a-hundred-and-ninety-ten threads. I hope I am not pissing anyone off by bringing up this much inquired topic, but there are (to my investagative abilities) many fractional sources that almost/fractionally partain to THIS subject. Many EJ threads, however, few EJ20t/25T/25T-STi. I hope to not only to create a thread which combines all knowledge about this subject, but pole all your brains and create the most comrehensive write up I can. Once I graduate (Next year) I WILL be doing this. Can you guys help me??? P.S. If this has been done and a write up of it that is well detailed exists, or hell if a write up exists let me know and tell me I suck. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Ohhh and yes rear diff. I need to finish my 1966 cj rock crawler first (all custom fabrication, it's like a month out. Then I am looking for a cherry donor wagon...... or close enough). Just some things I just though of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Check the retrofitting forum on here about the EJ turbo swaps. SubaruTex is running an '87 RX with the EJ20G, Suberdave has done a couple already in a '87 GL turbocoupe and his '88 GL-10 turbowagon. I'm also planning on doing the swap this spring as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Check the retrofitting forum on here about the EJ turbo swaps. SubaruTex is running an '87 RX with the EJ20G, Suberdave has done a couple already in a '87 GL turbocoupe and his '88 GL-10 turbowagon. I'm also planning on doing the swap this spring as well. I actually, more specifically, want to do a EJ25T-STi. I was hoping for transmission length differences and wiring changes between EJ20G and EJ25T-STi. I would love to make this a COMPLETE thread of USDM WRX and USDM STi into EA82 powered cars. Mechanical swaps, as well as, electrical swaps. How gauges coincide, wiring that stays as well as needs to be eliminated, pictures, everything from the mundane to the necessary, all in one place. <----------- See if this gets underway even your bananas on your counter will dance. I am just hoping for a pole of your brains, take everything ya'll know and make it a sticky or put it in the ultimate subaru repair manual. More importantly put it in one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rguyver Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 First off find out what year EJ 2.5 STI your going to use ( 04,05,06,07,08,) is it a JDM engine ? also year of 6speed ? they all have there differences , eg. the 04 6speed has the a simpler ECCD (electronically, controlled ,center, diff) thats less integrated in to the ABS , traction control and the late 05-08 have a drive by wire throttle. also year and model of EA wagon will make it easy or hard a 85- ? turbo wagon would be best for the cross member turbo up pipe clearance and rear sway bar mounts . i would say collect the parts/ car and you will get help the build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 if you write it in amny HTML format i have webspace to host it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Nice. Like people said Superdave & rguyver are great resource for complete transplants. Plenty of people here have done engine swaps. pics and stuff will be great when you get this swap started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Thanks guys. I'll figure out what I am going to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 did you read my write-up? it's catered more towards the EJ22e side of things, but will give you a huge jump start. and from there, search the likes of NASIOC and other forums for the information to get to a 257. as someone who's helped on a number of major swaps. here is my biggest piece of advice. do NOT piece together a swap. it'll just add to the headaches, and time. save up, and cough up what you need to for an entire donor car. then you'll have everything you need. and you'll know that the engine runs. I did the wiring for 2 full EJ205 swaps (engine, tranny, interior, etc.) in the last 6 months. 1 was done in about 2 weeks time because he had the entire car there, the other took about 8 months from first ordering the parts, to running and driving, finally got it going a couple weeks ago. because he didn't quite get everything. also, if you have an entire car, you can make a bunch of your money back selling parts that you don't need (the guy who bought individual parts ended up spending substantially more!). I know of a few places in the midwest where wrecked cars can be found..... Use an EA82 car. that'll also save you a ton of time and money in the fabrication department. as I know the DOHC motors don't fit between the EA81 framerails, and I highly doubt the 6MT would fit in the tranny tunnel..... But, we know that the DOHC motors fit in the EA82s. and they say that a 6MT can be put anywhere that a 4EAT could, and we know that EA82s came with 4EATs...... your biggest hurtles will be, in no particular order, wiring, converting to hydraulic clutch, rear diff (stock r160 + 257 power.....yikes.....and converting to an r180 in an EA car will be a giant of a project), and 5-lug (gotta do it, period. only way to get the brakes and suspension to control the power.....now, start looking for XT6 parts!!!). look for a '04-'05 donor car. the '06+ ones have immobilizer systems that will make it impossible (or very close to it) to run the motor on the stock ECU. and the '07s (I don't know about the '08s...don't have a FSM for one of those yet...) dropped the 1.1:1 transfer gear, so will need a 3.545 rear diff, the older ones use a 3.9 rear diff, which already exist in plenty in the EA cars. also, you'll need the speedo gear from an Early EJ tranny to swap into the 6MT to get your speedo to work (or find a way to graft the STi gauges in there, but that would take a stinkload of work to make it not look like total crap!) all the information is out there. take the information in my write-up, plus the documentation that suberdave and rguyver have done on their swaps, plus the information on NASIOC and RS25......you'll be doing it with your eyes closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Awsome thanks you very much that was the exactly the type of general overview I was looking for. Good stuff. I am keeping my eye out for a cherry wagon when I see one, I will buy it. 85 +. I want to use an 05 STi. I read the EJ write up about a week ago. It gave me a great over view. However, I am sure that there are a number of differances between that and the STi swap. Thank you for the overview, I really appreciate it. Anything else comes to mind, feel free to elaborate. Thanks again. I am hoping, within' the year, probly much sooner. My jeep is almost done, than I have to paint it and move on to making a bad-rump roast car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio_file Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Jeeebus! what do people on the USMB not know?!! (blownt away!!) chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 However, I am sure that there are a number of differances between that and the STi swap. of course there is. but 99% of that stuff is heavily documented on dozens of other subaru sites. Seriously, this isn't much different than doing the same swap into an Early impreza....which has been done hundreds of times. only things that won't be the same for an EA car, is the fact that the dash isn't interchangeable, the rear end stuff isn't either, and there isn't a cutout already stamped into the firewall for the hydraulic clutch stuff (although, IIRC, suberdave is using a hydraulic clutch in his beast.....). my biggest worry is the rear diff. I've seen what a modded EJ257 can do to an R160 under mild abuse...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 What would be needed to shoe horn the STi rear end in? I am pretty damn good at fab. (After all I am just finishing a complete rock crawler with all custom fab, done by myself. I'll throw some pics up in Non-soob offroading.) Mild abuse? That doesn't sound real great. Is it housing fitment, or mechanical swap problems, or both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 pics are up in non-sub offroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 What would be needed to shoe horn the STi rear end in? I am pretty damn good at fab. (After all I am just finishing a complete rock crawler with all custom fab, done by myself. I'll throw some pics up in Non-soob offroading.) Mild abuse? That doesn't sound real great. Is it housing fitment, or mechanical swap problems, or both. who knows. the r180 is bigger in every dimension. uses different axles, hubs, brakes, etc. etc. etc. doing the swap in an EJ car means essentially replacing the entire rear end. from suspension, to lateral links, to diff hanger, all of it. but the rear end in an EA82 car is completely different...... I think the easiest way to do it, would be fab up the mounts for the r180. and then make custom axles to run the EA82 trailing arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 That doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. How much for a pair of custom axles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 That doesn't sound like too bad of a deal. How much for a pair of custom axles? well, I think the best way to do it, might be to take both pairs in (one pair, R180, and one pair EA82), with an accurate measurement of what lengths they need to be (easiest way to do this would be to get an accurate measurement of the difference of widths between the 2 diffs), and take them to a drivetrain shop. as they'll probably have to be cut and welded together. Which, especially in a high hp environment, should be professionally done. but once you get both sets of axles side-by-side, you may find that you'll be able to just mix and match parts.....who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 Yeah that makes sense. I will check that out. I'll let you guys know what is going on with this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 i think a better solution to the rear suspension problems is to completely swap the rear suspension... i'm assuming you're getting a complete parts car correct? i would not attempt this swap without it as there are many parts missing from a front clip or pre-parted out car. i would also look into nissan rear suspension from such cars are 280Z, 300Z, 350Z, skylines, sylvias, etc etc... they all share the same diffs with subaru except they have the pretty R200 with is the next step up from the R180. and since you're using 05 sti parts the bolt pattern is the same as the nissan 5 lug... for a swap like this i believe that sticking with all subaru would be limiting yourself to easier/ better options. i would also look into getting a version 6 or older JDM sti for swapping. they still have DCCD and all that fun stuff but they are 2 liter motors still dishing out the 300hp. the transmission are 5speed instead of 6, but they are pretty much the same dimensions as a standard suby transmission. ver7 is when they got the 6 speed and made the transmission huge... adding the 6 speed also adds about 100lbs to the car if i remeber correctly... ver7 also has a cool turbo setup and a non-FBW throttle so it'll be easier to work out the wiring... wiring becomes much easier on the JDM sti's with OBD1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 i think a better solution to the rear suspension problems is to completely swap the rear suspension... I would not even consider this, as the mounting points are very different (especially for the strut tops ). and I would not trust the unibody to support these kinds of forces (even just for driving around the block) without building a subframe to support it. It would just put all kinds of twists, torques, and such in places that weren't designed to hold up to it. just my 2 cents.... which reminds me.....I'd look for an '04. cheaper suspension (the '05 switched front knuckle design, which means '05+ STi specific stuff.....which means many thousands of dollars for a relatively basic setup), and the bolt pattern will match the rear XT6 hubs (which is the best/easiest way to do it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I would not even consider this, as the mounting points are very different (especially for the strut tops ). and I would not trust the unibody to support these kinds of forces (even just for driving around the block) without building a subframe to support it. It would just put all kinds of twists, torques, and such in places that weren't designed to hold up to it. just my 2 cents.... very very true... the old trailing arm design suspesion does not place any lateral/shear forces on the strut mounts where on the newer suspension it does... however, with proper bracing i think it should hold up just fine... assuming he's as good a fabber as he says he is then i'm sure he could come up with something... i had a look at the buggy project you did and it looks quite good and i think you could probably make something strong enough to suit... however building an slow moving off-roader and a 300hp speed machine are two very different things... this is also the reason i posted: i would also look into nissan rear suspension from such cars are 280Z, 300Z, 350Z, skylines, sylvias, etc etc... they all share the same diffs with subaru except they have the pretty R200 with is the next step up from the R180. and since you're using 05 sti parts the bolt pattern is the same as the nissan 5 lug... most (or all if i'm not mistaken) do not use a lateral link suspension system. this system is from a 300Z... these struts would take no more force than a standard ea82 suspension... however determining a mounting setup for this would a be a pain... this is just an example, but i think it is important to look at as it is a system designed and proven to take more than 300hp, where as xt6 and R160's were not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 While I am pretty good at the type of shennanigans, I also like the easiest route with the most bolt up options. However if the R160 is just going to grenade once I put foot to floor might as well do it right from the start. And rockcrawlers routinely snap things like fully boxed and reinforced frames, fold crossmembers, and things of the nature, so building a slow moving rockcrawler still requires a good amount of reinforcement. The change to the car world requires things to be taken into account such as weight and Unibody. Torsion, as well as, compression forces are absorbed much differently. I am interested in finding the simplest medium as far as this swap goes. If putting the R180 diff in and keeping the suspension is a viable option I am for it. If swapping the sti suspension is the devil, I see no reason to use it, especially if it places torques and extra forces in different places on the Unibody. As far as this nissan swap, I am curious I'll have to look into it. However, this build is going to be, on somewhat of a budget. If it looks really feasable.... and I mean REALLY, I am down to try it. Maybe...... I know however from past exp. having a million different parts from all sorts of different makes of vehicles turns into a huge headache. I would like to maintain an all usdm all subaru vehicle if I can help it. How easy are JDM parts to get should you need some for a V. 5 sti???????? Probly not super easy... or cheap. But hell we save that on insurance right. 88' turbo wagon= WAY cheaper than 04 STi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 very very true... the old trailing arm design suspesion does not place any lateral/shear forces on the strut mounts where on the newer suspension it does... however, with proper bracing i think it should hold up just fine... assuming he's as good a fabber as he says he is then i'm sure he could come up with something... i had a look at the buggy project you did and it looks quite good and i think you could probably make something strong enough to suit... however building an slow moving off-roader and a 300hp speed machine are two very different things... this is also the reason i posted: most (or all if i'm not mistaken) do not use a lateral link suspension system. this system is from a 300Z... these struts would take no more force than a standard ea82 suspension... however determining a mounting setup for this would a be a pain... this is just an example, but i think it is important to look at as it is a system designed and proven to take more than 300hp, where as xt6 and R160's were not... that's why I was saying without a subframe. it'd be easy to swap a whole different setup in there if you were building a subframe under it, but that'd be hard to do without lifting the whole car at least a few inches my dad has a full Z31 turbo rear end just like that in the garage (5-lug swap for his N/A Z31). While it uses the same concept as the EA82 trailing arms.....I think it would be just as much work to make it fit up there. also, with XT6 hubs, you could modify the backing plates, and use the brembo brakes off the rear of your parts car. then the only EA82 part left is the bearings themselves, which are pretty tough. I think they'd hold up fine. another thought I had....IIRC the STi (or maybe not just the STi, but all newer cars...) have a wider track than the older EJ cars. meaning longer axles. So if you're using XT6, or modified EA82, control arms (bolt-on, and IMHO no need for an upgrade) you'll need to solve that problem. if you're using '04 STi hubs, you can just slide older axles (like from a GC impreza....known to be the right length) in there. all 5x100 hubs use the same splines, but if you have '05 hubs, you'll have to have the axles custom shortened..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I would like to maintain an all usdm all subaru vehicle if I can help it. How easy are JDM parts to get should you need some for a V. 5 sti???????? Probly not super easy... or cheap. But hell we save that on insurance right. 88' turbo wagon= WAY cheaper than 04 STi. getting JDM parts is easy and fairly cheap compared to the USDM counterparts due to their age. older sti's = cheaper than new ones... find a local tuner shop and find out where they get their JDM imports from. there are typically parts distributers specifically for JDM parts. which one is in your area? i have no idea... phone around a bit. i have about half a dozen places to get JDM parts fairly local to me. these places won't just deal in subies though. honda, toyota, nissan parts are in high demand pretty much everywhere so there pretty much HAS to be one local to you... i've seen complete ver.1 sti WITH registrations and street legal titles go for 5k-6k canadian. every place has different import laws though. ver4-5 complete drivetrains go for 7k-8k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 also, jdm engines don't have a whole lot of differences from the usdm ones. so if you need gaskets, or something like that, you can usually pick them up from the dealer. and even anyway, jdm part numbers will come up at a us dealer parts counter. so if you find a part number, you can still get the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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