Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 okay - yet another new problem with my legacy - when making a tight turn, like in to a parking place, it makes a weird dragging,binding kind of a vibration in the front end - I'm thinking that this is not good.... any suggestiions much appreciated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Sounds like "torque bind". Search here on that term for much more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Ill second that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ill triple that....im just starting to run into that kind of problem with my 96' AWD legacy.....i hear its not to hard to fix.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Is this a manual trans or auto trans? If it is torque bind, common causes are (a) running with tires where the circumferences are not all within 1/4" ( running with a soft/flat tire for a period of time © improper towing Sometimes clicking in turns though is cv joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I would want to rule out a bad CV joint first. Do you ever hear / feel a clacking when stepping on the gas in a turn? Look behind the wheel hubs and see it there is evidenece of grease being thrown out of a torn CV boot. If not, you could be in the early stages of Torque Bind. Fist thought is to have the tranny fluid changed via a flush. (some like to do the multiple pan drain and fills, I like it all in one shot) The repair is not fun, it involves removing the tail shaft of the tranny. It can be done with the tranny in the car but... peak under there once to get an idea of what is involved. Hope this gives you some insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Here's some pics of the auto trans awd transfer clutch. Here's some torn cv joint boots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapdaddytatum Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 if any one wants real piuctures of a tail shaft rebuild i have them i have a trans on the bench now, fdoing clutches, a broken gear and the cylnoid too do it all and save the headache of pulling it back apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 searching for "torque bind" now - what the heck is that? It certainly describes the feeling... BTW it is an automatic trans.... thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Auto, turbo, so VLSD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 It definately feels like a differential problem - could it be fluid? Am I totally screwed? How tough is it to replace? I have a sinking feeling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Don't panic yet. Check the CVs, just in case, especially if there's clicking. The fluid that can be replaced and might be helpful is ATF. As Skip has already mentioned, a complete change (flush) sometimes is the cure. A bad VLSD (assuming your car has one) could also cause certain binding symptoms, but it's not the first thing to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 "Torque bind" occurs when the transfer clutches that engage the rear drive lock up when they shouldn't. This puts the car in 4wd like a truck or Jeep with 4wd engaged. These have no center differential so turning (which causes the wheels to traverse different distances) causes the drive train bind. Like one would feel in a truck with 4wd engaged used on dry pavement. Causes for this lock up vary but usually it can be attributed to the fact that the solenoid (called solenoid C ) in the tailshaft has failed. This solenoid (when working) opens the drain for the hyd. pressure that holds the clutches locked. The amount of "drainage" is controlled by the TCU (Transmission Control Unit) by sending a duty cycle signal to solenoid C. Thus controlling the "percentage" of drive sent to the rear wheels. If the solenoid fails, the hyd pressure is NOT drained and therefore forces the clutches to lock the rear drive "In". You are now in "locked" 4wd. I am sure someone will chime in and fill in details I overlooked or stated incorrectly. Hope this helps understand your Subaru AWD system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Thanks Skip - perfect description. Does torque bind happen on autos or only man. trans? could I check for this problem by disabling the RWD with the little fuse thingy on the firewall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 General AWD info: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/VarNov06EW.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Well i see my work here is done Yes its TB. Change the fluid first to see if it can help, but the older and higher the mileage on the car, the more likely it is to be a tired clutch pack. Try the lucas additive that people like. That may free it up, someone will tell you exaclty which one. Its like chicken soup, it cant hurt. Its not only the duty C that can make it happen, but it can also be old tired sticky clutches. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm still not clear on if you can have TB in an auto trans.... I'm going to start with a fluid check - should I run some sea foam or something through it? I'll check the boots as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm still not clear on if you can have TB in an auto trans.... Yes, the discussion thus far has been for the auto trans A.K.A. 4EAT (4 speed Electronic Automatic Transmission) Manual trannys use a different system. I'm going to start with a fluid check - should I run some sea foam or something through it? I'll check the boots as well. Changing, rather than checking is the recommended procedure. No Seafoam is not what is suggested (I didn't know they recco'd it for automatics - I'll look) Nipper mentions Lucas tranny conditioner. Available at most parts stores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbusa Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 instead of freaking out I'd recommend not taking tight tunrs on dry pavement. The guy says to his doctor... it hurts when I twist my arm like this. The doc says... well, don't twist your arm like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Big - That's been my solution so far - just go straight! Thanks for the clarification, Skip - Could the extreme cold weather have brought on these symptoms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Big - That's been my solution so far - just go straight! Thanks for the clarification, Skip - Could the extreme cold weather have brought on these symptoms? Torque bind needs to be investigated, as very little driving is straight. It doesnt magically go away in slick weather. what happens is that the wheels can more easily brake loose at the wrong time, and then if your really unlucky, you get to be close up and personal with another object. It will just get worse with time. If the cold weather bought on these synptons, all the more reason to change the fluid to see if it goes away. It means that your tranny fluid is very old and gummy. Have you tried the FWD fuse holder trick to see if it goes away? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 UPDATE: Okay- fresh tranny fluid and 1/2 a bottle of lucas additive didn't make a difference... I did disable the AWD and in FWD mode it didn't have a problem in a tight turn. Also, no CV boots torn on any of the 4 wheels that I can see or feel... Am I screwed yet?:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 You are at the exact point I was at a year ago (only I had a '93) :-p I changed my fluid like you did, and it didnt help much. I drove to avoid the tight turns like you are... and it sorta helped :-\ I put the FWD fuse in the holder... and that helped a lot. (for a while) I ended up removing the rear drive shaft for the spring/summer , as after a while, it began ignoring the fuse. ...and binding anyway. Worst case scenario ... put a j/y tranny in it that has low miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 I notice you say you HAD a '93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 UPDATE:Okay- fresh tranny fluid and 1/2 a bottle of lucas additive didn't make a difference... I did disable the AWD and in FWD mode it didn't have a problem in a tight turn. Also, no CV boots torn on any of the 4 wheels that I can see or feel... Am I screwed yet?:-\ Drive in FWD mode, it makes the car more stable to drive. you dont have a duty C problem, you have a clutchpack problem. you can either save money a- for a used tranny, or b - rebuild the clutch pack. i dont remeber, but i am assuming all your tires match and are equally worn. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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