Possible Rescue - 94 Legacy Wagon

[subsince77]

This will probably get a little long, so sorry in advance. As I am waiting to get my OBW repaired, I have been watching the local paper for Subarus. There have only been a few, but this week an ad showed up for a 94 wagon for $300. The ad simply says, "doesn't run, but might be a simple fix for someone that knows what to do."

 

So Today I got in touch with the owner. He is a college student, lots of those here, and he doesn't know much about the car. He said he bought it from a girl he knew in Denver. She had started having problems with the car dying at stop lights. He drove it for a while, presumably brought it here to school, but the problem started getting worse. He said that finally it would die every time he stopped, then the last time, he could not restart the car. He said that this girl was told by a shop in Denver that it needed "a wire harness" replaced that would cost $400. That is why she sold it to him.

 

So, he told me where the car was parked, and I went to look at it. It, like many other cars in Gunnison this year, is under about two feet of snow. I brushed off the front just to be sure that the small part of a front fender I could see was actually a Subaru. The hood had about a foot of snow, the rest of the car is really buried, so I don't know too much about it.

 

I got inside after digging out the riders side door. It is a 94 legacy wagon with a 4 speed automatic transmission. The shifter has a button on the side (two actually) that says "manual" by it. Is that a 4wd button, or something else? The interior looks good, some college kid trash on the floor, but pretty clean and not torn up. It has at least some rust, and the riders outside mirror is gone. It also needs a windshield. Looks like a recent break, actually it looks like someone stepped on it. It has an electric sunroof, and, wait for it, the odometer says 120,000 and change. Practically brand new for a 2.2L

 

There were some papers on the seat saying it had passed emissions in Denver last spring, and an oil change sticker on the windshield that was 3000 miles old. 10/30 though, too thick for a Gunny winter. He had told me the key was there but the battery dead, and that was right, no power at all.

 

I popped the hood and climbed back out. As I pushed the rest of the snow off, I found an intake, must be a turbo says I, and sure enough it is. Opened the hood, it is as expected, a 2.2L turbo. The plug wires look like they might be original, so it might need new ones. Fuel filter looked old. Oil was full.

 

One thing I saw was that the right (riders) side of the timing belt cover was broken off - not good, but the belt was there, so it has one. It did not appear to be leaking oil at the bottom of the timing cover, or onto the exhaust right below that. Left valve cover was dry, right valve cover had oil on top, maybe from the timing belt area? I didn't get underneath because of the snow.

 

One other thing. On the left (drivers) side of the engine compartment there are three bundles of wires that come in right near the battery (an interstate by the way). The top bundle looked like it had been cut apart with a knife, then each wire put back together with electrical tape. Scary. Could this be what the shop was saying needed to be replaced? i don't even know what it is.

 

So, those of you that have read my posts know I'm a really basic mechanic at best. I don't know why I'm drawn to this car, I guess it's just the possibility that it might be a jewel for $300 and some work. I haven't given you much to work with here i know, but what do you think? I guess my next step is to put some power to it and see if it has spark. Maybe give it a fuel filter and some plugs and wires. If I bought it, any serious work would have to wait until spring.

 

Are these turbos a problem? Any thoughts would be helpful.

 

Thanks

[pearlm30]

wow, what a great deal. You cant go wrong with $300 on a 94 turbo wagon with low miles. The no start problem could be one of the cam sensors, and stalling problem could be MAF.

Good luck:banana:

[GeneralDisorder]

That's a good, low mileage for a 22T. Excelent deal if the body isn't too rusty. Even then you could rip the engine out and sell it for a grand. They are very sought after being Subaru's only 2.2 fully closed deck block. Legendary so to speak. With some WRX 2.0 or Gen 1/2 2.5 heads, an intercooler and a larger turbo there's quite a number of folks into the 300 HP and low 12 second range. The auto tranny can be swapped and frankly isn't a big deal since the manual's they came with are weak at higher performance levels.

 

They are about as reliable as the N/A 22. Only real problems with them generally stem from poor maintenance. Right before Subaru originally introduced the Legacy in 90 (so late 89) they brought a handful of these turbo's to the US and ran them 24/7 for several weeks stopping only for routine maintenance. The cars racked up something like 65,000 miles without a single failure.

 

The cooling systems need to be maintained. If they go things get ugly in a big way. I just aquired a 91 SS (Sport Sedan) that hasn't seen the road in three years due to a cooling system mishap that took out the engine (melted the block), radiator, and heater core all at once. These engines are rare, parts tend to be expensive, and it was around $5,000 to put it back on the road.... and I've not even started modding it yet.

 

The only thing that's somewhat distressing about the engine itself is they have piston oil squirters in the crank that have a tendancy to fall out - this can lead to a lack of lubrication to other critical engine parts as there will be a pressure loss when the spray nozzle is gone. There's four of them and folks have reported as many as three of them falling into the oil pan. It's also pretty much agreed that they are uneccesary. Much higher performing turbo's including the 22B Impreza (280 HP on the same block) never came with them. The thought is that Subaru was overly cautious about their reputation in the US market at the time and added them due to fears of piston overheating because of the lack of an intercooler on these models. It's a complete engine teardown to plug them though so unless you find them in the pan it's not a huge worry.

 

The turbo's only came as either the Sport Sedan (manual and auto versions), and the Touring Wagon (auto only). 160 HP, 181 Ft/lbs stock.

 

Sounds like a pretty easy fix. It's most likely a sensor or something on the fritz making it not idle. A hookup to the B10 scan tool will tell you much:

 

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/b10scan/

 

GD

[Rooster2]

From your description, it sounds like this car is repairable. If you offered the kid $150, he would prolly take it. It doesn't sound like it would take a lot to get this car running. I don't understand about all the wiring being cut, then reassembled with tape. I wonder whose bright idea was that? With some patience that is fixable. No need to buy a new wiring harnass. I wouldn't be surprised that with a new set of plugs and plug wires, that the car would run well again.

 

You may have found a nice jewell!

[subaru360]

I would buy this car without any hesitation for $300. The engines in these are very, very good. Some will say this is the best block subaru ever made.

[kevinsUBARU]

do it!

[njdrsubaru]

yeah offer him $150! :lol:

 

well go down to 200 and meet in the middle 250

 

maf sensor, O2 sensor, plugs, wires, filters will need to be changed... clean AIC valve and throatle body, all this can be done in less than a day. oh one more little annoying thing... knock sensor!

 

also check the fuel pump.. i just got a used one from the JY for 5 bucks.. so they are cheap

 

remember this: the 2.2Ts are NOT gas savers, at the best you'll get 20 mpg at worse you'll get 12-14mpg

[msmithmmx]

Yep, do it.

[GeneralDisorder]

maf sensor, O2 sensor, plugs, wires, filters will need to be changed... clean AIC valve and throatle body, all this can be done in less than a day. oh one more little annoying thing... knock sensor!

 

Knock sensors went through a revision, but only change it if you are getting the code for it. Buy a new one they are only about $55.

 

also check the fuel pump.. i just got a used one from the JY for 5 bucks.. so they are cheap

 

Fuel pumps are not the same for the N/A vs. Turbo. If it needs a pump it's best to just buy a Walbro for it.

 

emember this: the 2.2Ts are NOT gas savers, at the best you'll get 20 mpg at worse you'll get 12-14mpg

 

Agreed - they can get up to 25 or so highway though. In town is usually around 18 or less. All turbo's run crazy rich - more air means more fuel = more power. Especially under boost.

 

GD

[bheinen74]

if it is really a leg turbo, buy it site unseen for 300. that ej22t block is worth 600 just a bare split case.

[lmdew]

If you don't get it, let me know and I'll pick it up!

 

Lmdew@hotmail.com

[subsince77]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to take a code reader and jumper cables over there today and see what I can find out. Unless I see something really bad, I'll get it.

 

You say "If it's really a Leg turbo." It's a legacy, I know nothing about turbos, but there was one sitting on the top rear of the engine under a scoop - could it be anything else?

 

Another dumb question (the first of many as I try to fix this thing), maybe this will be obvious when I look at it again, but where is the air filter on that thing? All I remember is the black turbo housing going right into the intake.

 

Where is the MAF on one of those. My Haynes manual doesn't seem to address this engine, and I have never been around a turbo 2.2.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

[GeneralDisorder]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to take a code reader and jumper cables over there today and see what I can find out. Unless I see something really bad, I'll get it.

 

These are not OBD-II cars - there is no code reader besides the Subaru select monitor or the B10 scan tool I linked to in my previous post that will read from them. They are self-diagnosing to an extent through he CEL via two sets of plugs under the column. But it's less than useful for a lot of things really.

 

You say "If it's really a Leg turbo." It's a legacy, I know nothing about turbos, but there was one sitting on the top rear of the engine under a scoop - could it be anything else?.

 

The turbo itself is not actually visible. It's under a heat "chimney" that funnels air from the scoop over the turbo.

 

Another dumb question (the first of many as I try to fix this thing), maybe this will be obvious when I look at it again, but where is the air filter on that thing? All I remember is the black turbo housing going right into the intake.

 

Same place as on an N/A legacy. It's a panel filter under a big black plastic housing.

 

Where is the MAF on one of those. My Haynes manual doesn't seem to address this engine, and I have never been around a turbo 2.2.

 

Again - its nearly the same. Right after the air filter.

 

GD

[Rooster2]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to take a code reader and jumper cables over there today and see what I can find out. Unless I see something really bad, I'll get it.

 

 

 

Just some advise on using jumper cables.........if the battery is really really dead, it may take as long as 10 to 15 minutes hooked up on jumper cables to generate enough "juice" in the system to get the starter to turn over the motor.

 

Also, when jump starting a car, I first turn on the head lights of the car with the dead battery at the time of cable hook up. If I don't see bright light from the head lights, I then wiggle the jumper cables at all four connections until the see the lights are bright. Once completed, I know that I have good jumper cable connections. Then, I turn the head lights off, wait a bit, then try cranking the motor for a start up.

 

 

If the battery has been completely discharged in sub freezing temperatures for a period of time, it is highly likely that the battery is ruined, and will need replacing.

 

Good luck, have fun, hope it starts........wish I was there to help. I like getting involved in projects like this. Hope everything works out, and you get yourself a nice car for just a little money.

[Skip]

I have two Legacy Touring wagons 93,94

 

if you need specific pictures or help please ask.

 

If you are going for it

I would suggest highly that you join this forum

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/

[subsince77]

These are not OBD-II cars - there is no code reader besides the Subaru select monitor or the B10 scan tool I linked to in my previous post that will read from them. They are self-diagnosing to an extent through he CEL via two sets of plugs under the column. But it's less than useful for a lot of things really.

 

Hmmm, OK, I thought there was an older type of scanner. In that case, I will be guessing. I think I will pull a plug or two and look at them, get some juice into the battery, turn it over and make sure there are no really bad noises. From the feed back I'm getting here, I think I will just get it and tow it someplace where I can begin to figure out what is wrong. I can at least do filters, plugs, wires, and )2 sensor and then see where I am. I don't think I can make a B10 scan tool, so maybe a little old fashioned hunting first.

 

The turbo itself is not actually visible. It's under a heat "chimney" that funnels air from the scoop over the turbo.

 

I guess I was looking at the chimney.

 

 

 

Same place as on an N/A legacy. It's a panel filter under a big black plastic housing.

 

Good thanks.

 

 

 

Again - its nearly the same. Right after the air filter.

GD

 

I will post some pictures later.

[subsince77]

I don't know much more yet. I spent most of the time I had just digging it out.

I haven't had time to pull any plugs or anything. I did jump it and turn it over. No bad sounds. It tries to fire about every three or four cranks it seems to me. It reminds me of a vehicle that is out of time, or the plug wires are on the distributor cap in the wrong order (old school) that sort of feel. Could be the timing belt jumped a tooth, but could be something else entirely.

 

If I go over there with a regular timing light and turn it over, maybe I can tell when it's firing.

 

I did see what you were saying, found the filters, O2 sensor, and MAF sensor right away. I am going back this afternoon to pull a plug. I haven't been able to reach the owner today. The car displays the requisite number of ski area stickers for a Colorado Subbie, so he may be up at Crested Butte enjoying the latest round of powder.

 

Here are a couple of pictures of the car, the engine compartment, the emissions sticker, and the wiring harness that is spliced and taped.

[EvilDead]

Nice find man! As everyone has said. Doooooo eeeeeetttttt!!!!!

[OB99W]

I don't know much more yet. I spent most of the time I had just digging it out.[...]

Are you sure it's for sale, and not just that the owner needed it dug out? The owner's name isn't "Tom Sawyer", by any chance?

[four-fleet-feet]

Hey, I'd even buy this one, and I already have a car!

 

Hope you can reach the current owner before he unloads your new ride on someone else!

 

Have fun working on your great find - and, if you tire of it, I don't think you'll have any problem selling your semi-snowcat to many on this board.

 

Maybe even have a bidding war...

[ericem]

Dude just seeing the front end in that colour would make me want to buy it. Sounds like a steal could be a simple problem like the timing belt skipping. Knocking off the cam sensor etc. Eventually I guess it jumped enough teeth for it to die.

[msmithmmx]

You have until tonight or I am calling offering 400.00. Can I have the # please

[ericem]

I even have enough money!! I also have a parts car aka my working car XD bye bye Legacy L

[subsince77]

Sorry everyone, it turns out it was over before it began. This guy had this car, and a Geo Metro that had been crushed by snow and ice falling off a building for sale, and someone bought them both last night while, or maybe before I was making my first post. Had I known what a unique car it was I wouldn't have even hesitated that long. There was probably only about a 30 minute window that was open to me.

 

I couldn't reach the guy all day, so I was working on the assumption that as soon as I could get him the car was mine. I had left several messages and I had the cash in hand. I tried, I really tried! I was never even able to meet the owner because he was busy last evening - bummer! i didn't find any of this out until about 5 pm today.

 

I am very disappointed, but what are you gonna do? I sure wish i hadn't spent all that time moving snow for someone else though. i have been getting enough of that as it is.

 

Thanks for all the help and encouragement.

[GeneralDisorder]

If you still want one, keep looking. They are out there. I passed up a 94 Auto Sport Sedan last year for $600 that I'm kicking myself over still.

 

For some reason the turbo's you find often are fairly low mileage. I attribute this to their higher fuel consumption (given a choice, people drive something else perhaps ), and that they were THE most expensive Subaru durring those years. I think the buyers were often older, and not as prone to flogging them or driving tons of miles up on them.

 

Of the one's I know:

 

1. 92 SS - Friends car - bought in '02 with 105k, sold at 120k (for more than he paid).

2. 94 SS - 140k - $600.

3. 94 TW - 110k - wrecked - donated it's engine to my 91 SS.

4. My own 91 SS - 140k - now with 110k engine from above.

 

So.... they are out there. And for the most part they don't tend to have high mileage. Attribute this to what you will, but from what I've seen that's just the way of things.

 

If you want one, head over to legacycentral.org - there's people selling them quite often for reasonable amounts. Often with go-fast parts installed....

 

GD