EA82 5 Lug Swap - with notes and variations

[idosubaru]

I attempted to put together a comprehensive set of notes for the XT site since there's a number of confusing options that some members have run into recently...2WD/4WD, turbo/nonturbo, air suspension, EJ or XT6. It could use some tweaking but i've already spent a TON of time that i probably don't have on it. I figured it could be useful here.

 

5 Lug Conversion Update

Read the “Variations” list at the bottom to see if any of the additional notes apply to you.

 

Front:

Control arms. XT6 control arms. XT6 and Impreza ball joints are identical. Subaru ball joint part # 21067GA050. If using an XT6 control arm, get the bolt that holds the arm to the vehicle. Some EA82's will require drilling the holes out bigger for the XT6 bolt. It is also possible to ream out the EA82 control arm to accept the XT6/Impreza ball joint.

Hubs: XT6 hubs or EJ hubs.

Sruts: XT6 struts or Impreza struts.

(You can mix and match XT6/EJ hubs and struts but the lower strut mount will require some tweaking if you don’t keep them the same.)

Axles: (Non-turbo see notes below) Turbo's Only: XT6 axles (or EA82 Turbo axles) for XT6 hubs. EJ axles for EJ hubs.

Tie Rods: XT6 or EJ tie rod ends - Subaru part #'s 31320GA190 RHS and 31320GA200 LHS. EA82 tie rods are a bit short but might work.

Brakes: XT6 calipers, brackets and rotors. 1999 Chevy Cavalier rotors are a much cheaper and easy to find equivalent. EJ brake notes below.

 

Rear:

XT6 rear hub assemblies (2WD notes below)

 

***NOTE*** For Impreza or EJ stuff mentioned above, hubs and struts should be from a 1993-2001 Impreza, including WRX up to 04 STi. Legacy hubs should work to up to 2004 at least, so the options are wide.

 

Variations: The following are various items that may affect the above list:

 

*** Non-turbo EA82’s***FWD Manual Impreza transmissions have an axle that should work - 1993 should do the trick. Non turbo EA82's have 23 spline inner axle joint (all XT6's, EJ's, and Turbo EA82's have 25 spline and there's no issue). The FWD manual impreza axle also has a 23 spline inner.

 

Another option is to build your own axle...swapping the inner non Turbo joint onto whatever axle you want to use - XT6, Turbo EA or EJ axle.

 

If you have an automatic transmission the axle stubs pop out, they just pull right out and pop back in. This being the case, you might be able to pull out your non-turbo splined stubby shafts and install turbo splined stubby shaft. Then just follow the directions above - using axles to match whatever hub you're using. This little trick isn't possible on manual trans as the stubs don't pull out.

 

***2WD*** If your EA82 is 2WD you will either need 2WD XT6 rear hubs or use entire 4WD XT6 rear hub assemblies (trailing arms and all)

***Air suspension note*** If you want to retain air suspension you will need XT6 front air struts or to see if Legacy front air struts will work. I am also told the Legacy air struts are too large for the EA82 strut towers as well, like the note above about EJ struts.

***Brake options*** For EJ brakes up front you will need to do a rear ebrake conversion as well via Nissan 200SX rear calipers. EJ brakes do not have the emergency brake up front, so converting to front EJ brakes essentially removes your emergency brake.

 

I am assuming that someone doing this swap knows they need NEW WHEELS!

[subyrally]

thanks gary.

[Skip]

+2, I'll second Subyrally

nice work, thanks for the effort.

[Gloyale]

***Control Arm Options *** You should not do this! Do not read this! It's a bad idea and only here for giggles. The only difference for the EA hubs is the ball joint hole. If you ream the hole out or properly massage it you could coax it into accepting an XT6/EJ ball joint (remember they are the same). Very bad idea, but it can be done.

 

 

Aren't the upper portions of the balljoint excactly the same, EA82,XT6,EJ???? the cylindrical part that get's clamped into the knuckle? Couldn't you just use an EA82 arm and balljoint, and set the EJ knuckle on top of that??????

 

 

At any rate, I have not done a 5 lug swap so I'm just asking. Very nice right up. Sticky to the USRM??????

[Numbchux]

Aren't the upper portions of the balljoint excactly the same, EA82,XT6,EJ???? the cylindrical part that get's clamped into the knuckle? Couldn't you just use an EA82 arm and balljoint, and set the EJ knuckle on top of that??????

 

I was thinking about this the other day. and have been looking for an old EJ ball joint to try in the 4-lug knuckles I've got. but haven't come up with anything yet.

 

 

gary, the 2WD notes are pretty much completely wrong :-\

 

only way to use 4WD hubs on a FWD car, is to use 4WD trailing arms, the bearings are completely different. these don't need to be from an XT6.....

 

you also don't need to disassemble the axle. all EA cars have a spindle that the hub rides on. just pound out the roll pin and remove the axle.

 

 

as for the front struts. it's not the legacy struts that are the problem. it's the upper perches. pre 1999 Legacy front springs aren't tapered like the impreza ones.

 

 

the 125mm upper perches fit fine, but the 146mm ones don't.

 

 

 

why on earth would you say it's not safe to ream out the ball joint hole?!?! that's ludicrous. messaging and coaxing is not a good idea, but to ream it out with the right equipment would be just fine.

 

also, it's already covered in the USRM, but so is alot of what you've got here. frequently XT6 control arms use a larger bolt at the crossmember. just make sure to keep that bolt when you buy the control arms, and drill out the hole in the crossmember.

 

 

 

 

rear ebrake doesn't need to be 200SX calipers. 240SX ones work too (slightly different Ebrake mechanism, but same idea). and EJ rear backing plates can be modified to bolt onto the EA trailing arm. in which case, the only XT6 parts needed are the hubs. AND you'll be able to use the EJ drum-in-disc ebrake mechanism. rguyver has documented that modification.

 

This also makes EJ rear brake upgrades (like the H6 rotors) possible.

 

 

 

EA82 tie rod ends work fine. if they are indeed shorter, I wouldn't dare use anything else. in order to get my car down to zero toe, I only have about 1/4" of unused threads on the tie rods. anything longer would make it impossible to get the alignment correct

 

I remember hearing that EA81 tie rod ends are shorter. I've been trying to get my hands on one to confirm this, but haven't without just buying a new one.

 

 

 

 

decent write-up. but to be honest, it's obviously written by someone who hasn't done it.....

[ple1ades]

I have a 87 rx does this mean I can put all the 04 sti parts on it?

[baccaruda]

I have Legacy knuckles on my wagon and I'm using XT6 front E-brake calipers. I have caliper brackets from a certain type of Legacy..I don't know what it is. Some kind of turbo model or GT I think. Whatever it is, it's out there...

[Caboobaroo]

I guess I'll pipe in here. Firstly Gary, there is a pretty exstensive list in the USRM

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50400

 

I think we should modify it when we need to but use the same information between here and the XT board to help keep everyone on the same page. Since the XT4 and the EA82 cars do not differ in the drivetrain portion, then it is safe to say that the information will work with either/or.

 

If you need more information and other discoveries I've found/made, let me know and we can continue to work on this. I know there are people (like Numbchux) that have discovered suspension upgrades fo the cars but lets keep it strictly to a 5-lug conversion.

[PoorManzImpreza]

I don't know about numbchux observations but in my experience ea82 tierod ends aren't compatible with ej front knuckles..wrong taper/too short in the tapered section.. However ea81 tierod ends are an exactly perfect fit for ej hubs and give you back full toe adjustibility as they are shorter than xt6/legacy and ea82 tierods ends..

 

Also legacy axles are a few mm longer than ea82/xt6 axles..

 

Now I haven't tried this but:

For ea81 folks..you may find it interesting that the same fwd impreza axles mentioned about.. well they are 22 spline on the axle shaft just like ea81 and some non turbo ea82..one could take an ea81 shaft and inboard assembly and source an outer joint brand new from gck and have yourself a correct length ej conversion front drive shaft..no cutting required.. (well unless u had to cut off the ea81 outboard joint)..

 

I know the fwd ej inboard inner race is 22 spline and so are ea81 axle shafts but what I don't know is if the other end (out board joint) of a fwd impreza axle accepts 22 splin as well..it stands to reason considering every shaft I've seen has had the same spline count on both ends.. but ya never know..

 

Also there is plenty of meat in the metal boss of an ea82 lower controll arm to have it reamed at the machine shop to accept an ej ball joint..Unless you have suck @$$ machine shops like we do here..(How can you not have reaming tools for your 500k cnc machine?)

 

Anyway just my 2 cents

 

Kaz

[Gloyale]

I don't know about numbchux observations but in my experience ea82 tierod ends aren't compatible with ej front knuckles..wrong taper/too short in the tapered section.. However ea81 tierod ends are an exactly perfect fit for ej hubs and give you back full toe adjustibility as they are shorter than xt6/legacy and ea82 tierods ends..

 

Also legacy axles are a few mm longer than ea82/xt6 axles..

 

Now I haven't tried this but:

For ea81 folks..you may find it interesting that the same fwd impreza axles mentioned about.. well they are 22 spline on the axle shaft just like ea81 and some non turbo ea82..one could take an ea81 shaft and inboard assembly and source an outer joint brand new from gck and have yourself a correct length ej conversion front drive shaft..no cutting required.. (well unless u had to cut off the ea81 outboard joint)..

 

I know the fwd ej inboard inner race is 22 spline and so are ea81 axle shafts but what I don't know is if the other end (out board joint) of a fwd impreza axle accepts 22 splin as well..it stands to reason considering every shaft I've seen has had the same spline count on both ends.. but ya never know..

 

Also there is plenty of meat in the metal boss of an ea82 lower controll arm to have it reamed at the machine shop to accept an ej ball joint..Unless you have suck @$$ machine shops like we do here..(How can you not have reaming tools for your 500k cnc machine?)

 

Anyway just my 2 cents

 

Kaz

 

You mean 23 spline. Not 22.

 

You're talking about using 93,94 Imp. FWD 23 spline cups on EJ or XT6 axles? Why not just use the whole axle? The extra length won't matter unles you are lowering the car. Would actually help with a Lift/ Control Arm/Camber change.

 

 

 

 

And still does anyone know why you could not use the EA balljoint, in the EA control arm bolted into the Legacy/Xt6/Imp knuckle???

[PoorManzImpreza]

The ej ball joint is physically bigger by 3 mm in diameter, even if you tightened down the ej/xt6 knuckle till there was no space between where the pinch bolt tightens you still won't make up the difference in diameter.

 

My reference in terms of 22 spline isn't where the in board joint mates to the transmision which is 23/25 spline but where the axles shaft mates with the outboard and inboard joints inside the DOJ and the CV joint.

 

The whole ea81 axle for 5 lug swap issue is that the only thing the correct length for ea81 is ea81 most ea81 axle SHAFTS excluding DOJ and CV joint are 22 spline on either end, so we need both an outer and an inner joint that accepts 22 spline axle shaft with ea81 length..

The early '90s FWD 5 speed Legacy and impreza use 27 spline (The section that slides into the hub) outboard cv joint on a shaft that has 22 splines on the axle shaft to DOJ/inboard joint.

 

What I haven't determined is whether the outboard joint also uses 22 splines on the axle shaft...If it did then one could build an ea81 5 lug axle very easily without cutting and rejoining an xt6/legacy half shaft to make it short enough to fit an ea81 chassis which has been the current practice..

 

FYI: FWD DOJ P/N is 28092AA080, this joint is 22 spline on the inner race (part that accepts the axle shaft) and 23 spline on the outer (part that slides over the tranny stub shaft..

 

I appologies for the confusion..

Kaz

[Numbchux]

I don't know about numbchux observations but in my experience ea82 tierod ends aren't compatible with ej front knuckles..wrong taper/too short in the tapered section.. However ea81 tierod ends are an exactly perfect fit for ej hubs and give you back full toe adjustibility as they are shorter than xt6/legacy and ea82 tierods ends..

 

hmmm....that's odd. I'm using EA82 rod ends and they work fine. have been for 6 months. even bought a new one a few weeks ago. and when I went to replace it, the old one was perfectly pressed in there like it should be.

[s'ko]

You mean 23 spline. Not 22.

 

You're talking about using 93,94 Imp. FWD 23 spline cups on EJ or XT6 axles? Why not just use the whole axle? The extra length won't matter unles you are lowering the car. Would actually help with a Lift/ Control Arm/Camber change.

There is a problem w/using Imp FWD axles on an EA81. They are too long. Even with a set of EA82 control arms my camber was \--/. I had to solve this by taking my control arms and extending them an inch.

 

And still does anyone know why you could not use the EA balljoint, in the EA control arm bolted into the Legacy/Xt6/Imp knuckle???

 

I used EA82 ball joint w/no issues.

[subyrally]

There is a problem w/using Imp FWD axles on an EA81. They are too long. Even with a set of EA82 control arms my camber was \--/. I had to solve this by taking my control arms and extending them an inch.

 

 

 

I used EA82 ball joint w/no issues.

 

 

hmmm, i might be needing to get in touch with you about the ea81 5 lug conversion. ive heard that you either have to lengthen the arms or shorten the axles, im open to either, but id like to see how you did yours.

[PoorManzImpreza]

hmmm....that's odd. I'm using EA82 rod ends and they work fine. have been for 6 months. even bought a new one a few weeks ago. and when I went to replace it, the old one was perfectly pressed in there like it should be.

lol that is odd..I need to get a digital camera so I can post pics..I even had my parts guy pull out all three rod ends to compare them and the ea81 and ej all they way through to the current tierod share the same taper and nut etc..the ea82 end was different in many areas..I'll post pics borrow a cam or something lol

I have seen ea81 tierods in an ea82 but they didn't fit right even though they did bolt in..

[idosubaru]

gary, the 2WD notes are pretty much completely wrong :-\

i edited it, was thinking of a 4WD-2WD conversion where you pull the axles out of the front and have to seal the hubs. obviously not needed in the rears!

 

i've never tried to use Legacy struts, so i was going on feedback from someone else on that. i edited the strut info as well. that's what happens when you type it up at 4am in the morning. you mentioned pre-1999 - what does that mean about the 2000+ legacy's?

 

the reaming the control arm comment is just a goofy "disclaimer".if they're confident they have the tools to do it right, they'll do it, if they're not they won't. if i "really" thought no one should do it, i wouldn't mention it. just for you, i edited it.

 

i'm trying to create a comprehensive list here, not just "what gary has seen". i do not know every single combination or possibility but i do know the old write ups are lacking in scope. actually some of the issues you mention are still in the old write up (EA82 tie rods) and no one ever corrected that. helpful suggestions work better than negative commentary.

[audio_file]

seriously . . . this might be the most hondaricerocket.com flamejob i've ever seen here on the USMB :-\

 

like he said, helpful suggestions people . . . jeeeze

 

i've been searching through 3 or 4 years worth of posts about setting up a reliable turbo system in an EA82t wagon, sifting through all of the "will this work," and "why did this grenade my engine," and it would've been nice to have had one page where most of the information was easily accessed, but what can you do? (search and read until you look like this > )

 

thank you grossgary for taking the time to take all the info from years worth of (mostly speculatory) posts and condensing them into a format that is much easier to use!!!! (i'm going to be doing "the swap" on an RX soon . . . )

 

chris

 

i edited it, was thinking of a 4WD-2WD conversion where you pull the axles out of the front and have to seal the hubs. obviously not needed in the rears!

 

i've never tried to use Legacy struts, so i was going on feedback from someone else on that. i edited the strut info as well. that's what happens when you type it up at 4am in the morning. you mentioned pre-1999 - what does that mean about the 2000+ legacy's?

 

the reaming the control arm comment is just a goofy "disclaimer".if they're confident they have the tools to do it right, they'll do it, if they're not they won't. if i "really" thought no one should do it, i wouldn't mention it. just for you, i edited it.

 

i'm trying to create a comprehensive list here, not just "what gary has seen". i do not know every single combination or possibility but i do know the old write ups are lacking in scope. actually some of the issues you mention are still in the old write up (EA82 tie rods) and no one ever corrected that. helpful suggestions work better than negative commentary.

[Caboobaroo]

seriously . . . this might be the most hondaricerocket.com flamejob i've ever seen here on the USMB :-\

 

like he said, helpful suggestions people . . . jeeeze

 

i've been searching through 3 or 4 years worth of posts about setting up a reliable turbo system in an EA82t wagon, sifting through all of the "will this work," and "why did this grenade my engine," and it would've been nice to have had one page where most of the information was easily accessed, but what can you do? (search and read until you look like this > )

 

thank you grossgary for taking the time to take all the info from years worth of (mostly speculatory) posts and condensing them into a format that is much easier to use!!!! (i'm going to be doing "the swap" on an RX soon . . . )

 

chris

 

Unfortunatly Chris, there are many different ways to do EA82T builds, 5-lug conversions and so on. What makes then different is what parts people use but everyone goes off of the same basic list of part or modifications to do it. This is why there is no "one page" for it but numerous posts from people who "want" to do it. If you see most of my 5-lug tip responses, I always direct them into the USRM where I wrote (with Tex's help) the 5-lug conversion list. That is the basis for most of the converted Subarus on this board. Now there are different renditions to the 5-lug conversion that people have discovered like different EJ parts to use and so on but thats why I think we need to add it to the one already made, not try and start another 5-lug conversion thread. Also if we can keep it the same mostly between the few other old School Subaru boards, it will then help promote new discoveries with what can be done with the conversion. I'm all about promoting uniquness but when I get at least one PM a week asking about 5-lug conversion help and what works, I tell them to search the Retrofit forum and I hate telling people to do that.

 

So Gary, if you want to get together on this, I'd be happy to help out and help get something together for everyone here and on the XT board.

[jread]

Don't mean to bring back an old thread but how long would it take for someone who's mechanically inclined to pull all the parts necessary for the swap? Passing through Tahoe tomorrow and might try and just snag the parts off this car

http://www.subaruxt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13789

Is this something I can knock out in an afternoon if every bolt isn't seized on?
 

[wagonist]

Most of the stuff should be big bolts, and it won't matter if you snap them, so long as you save the ones from your car.

Unbolt each side front suspension (struts, radius rod, lower control arm, driveshaft, steering tie rod end) complete. are the E-brake cables different?

If you want the rear sway bar, then unbolt the 2 suspension arms complete, otherwise you're going to have to dismantle the calipers, rotors, etc

[jread]

No answer from him so probably won't head out for it. Bummer but I have 20 hours of driving to do so I should just get it done! Anyone in Vegas need a ride to Portland?

[carfreak85]

Does anyone know the angle/size of the reamer you would use to modify an EA82 control arm to fit an EJ spindle?  I've been searching and searching but I must have missed it...